So who's broken an axle housing?

[thzero]

What size tubing are you using?

 

[ecoli]

Looks good. I'd say it would still be the weakest point because of having to drill out the tubing, but probably stronger than stock.

As for strength, the aluminum is likely stronger just because it's twice the thickness of the brass. Depends somewhat on the grade of the aluminum though. One thing with brass is that it will bend, while aluminum is more likely to just crack under stress. Time will tell though.

 

[matgyver]

What size tubing are you using?

I'm pretty sure he said it was "Found 9mm OD heavy wall alum tubing at Hobbytown USA, K&S 9811 slides in with a bit of effort, what I consider a perfect fit".

Looks good Wagon!! But you are still going to break it when we try and jump onto the awning roof again!! lol

 

[OntarioCrawler]

Sounds like you tightened those screws down way too tight, and it was already putting stress on the axle tube. Just waiting for the right hit to snap it in half.

 

[Speedweigand]

Sounds like you tightened those screws down way too tight, and it was already putting stress on the axle tube. Just waiting for the right hit to snap it in half.

Good answer... but no, that's not my problem :mrgreen:

I will post up new pics, problems and techniques for the axle toobz, all did not go well on the second axle. Also I received a call from Axial... more on that later too. Sorry no time to sit inside now, it's beautiful in Ohio today! Probably snow tomorrow :roll:

<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Wraith</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[DRCrawlGood]

Yikes I would think the tubes could take some jumps hopefully just a bad molded part.

 

[Speedweigand]

Yikes I would think the tubes could take some jumps hopefully just a bad molded part.

I'm calling it broken from fatigue. The Wraith axles will, and have taken some huge hits... but after repeated abuse for months you may get what we have here.

For those of you that don't have mechanical engineering in your background here's the definition of fatigue;

Fatigue is the progressive and localized structural damage that occurs when a material is subjected to cyclic loading. The nominal maximum stress values are less than the ultimate tensile stress limit, and may be below the yield stress limit of the material. Fatigue occurs when a material is subjected to repeated loading and unloading. If the loads are above a certain threshold, microscopic cracks will begin to form at the surface. Eventually a crack will reach a critical size, and the structure will suddenly fracture. The shape of the structure will significantly affect the fatigue life; square holes or sharp corners will lead to elevated local stresses where fatigue cracks can initiate. Round holes and smooth transitions or fillets are therefore important to increase the fatigue strength of the structure.

I spoke with Axial on Friday, they did seem pretty surprised it broke but were very interested in the fact I have video of it's life pryer to and during the part failure. I'm supposed to talk more with them next week, I would not be surprised from our conversation to see a "super duty" axle or at the very least a longer truss from them as optional parts.

Gotta run, more later... sorry for the delay with the pics and stuff but life calls.

 

[william g]

Found 9mm OD heavy wall alum tubing at Hobbytown USA, K&S 9811 slides in with a bit of effort, what I consider a perfect fit. My new axles are here tomorrow, I'll get some pics and the dimensions of the inserts up in the afternoon. They also had some brass 9mm tubing there, K&S 9827 bought some of that too.

Let's have a vote!
What do you think is stronger the heavy wall aluminum, which looks to be about a 2mm wall thickness or the brass tubing with a 1mm wall?

I'd bet the aluminum is stronger.

I also think the recess for the socket screw head is why it broke there. I'd bet if it wasn't recessed and they just used some button head screws instead of a recess and socket head it would be much stronger.

 

[TMXONR]

I managed to break an axle housing yesterday. I spent about 30 minutes jumping and trying to launch up a near vertical hill, with most attempts ending with a violent roll or a lawn dart. I was supprised that the axle lasted as long as it did. I have some tubing on order that I am going to use to try and sleeve the inside of the housing like you did.

 

[Speedweigand]

I managed to break an axle housing yesterday. I spent about 30 minutes jumping and trying to launch up a near vertical hill, with most attempts ending with a violent roll or a lawn dart. I was supprised that the axle lasted as long as it did. I have some tubing on order that I am going to use to try and sleeve the inside of the housing like you did.

Lookin at that background makes me want to break mine, over and over, and over :lmao:

 

[Speedweigand]

Alright here's the details on my second axle toob install

My second try was way prettier than the first
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oEmA3gEykBSx0JJMgL94dQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BUAOlh5DwLU/Tpt49s8dnlI/AAAAAAAABRU/ijoCsumoTy0/s400/DSCN9177.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

Decided to boil the axle to try and improve flexibility :roll: idk I'd sprinkle it with powdered sugar if I thought it would make it last longer...
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YLvPunrQ3hjESeviac-h-g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kUdgCbE0SXQ/Tpt4l8h1b_I/AAAAAAAABQU/BVS4NzyObdE/s400/DSCN9181.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

I went 5 minutes...
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_pCW3N-qCskpmCk0PfnXIg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AuAk4idBR3M/Tpt4thjuE5I/AAAAAAAABQs/43HlJsCF_m8/s400/DSCN9183.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

mmmm axle soup!
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2v0-e79_gdR7iRrQ8n51ug?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BzS8LBHiExM/Tpt41m263cI/AAAAAAAABQ8/8hS4xUqiLvo/s400/DSCN9187.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

So while the axle is warming up make sure there are no burrs or sharp edges on the toob to hinder it's forward progress.
Also before you boil look inside the axle for any plastic flashing leftover from the mold.

Remove the axle and allow to cool for a second. While the axle is pretty warm, (it'll cool fast out of the water) jam your toob into the long side, (I used dish soap for lube) and give 'er hell. I put the toob end on a block of wood and held on to the axle with my hands, remember it's critical that your slots line up with the holes when your done. If you start to feel resistance you may want to consider pulling it back out now, I used the end of a 21/64 dill bit to shove it in the last 1/4".

So say you feel some resistance and you think "all I got this" and keep pushing... that's when you may get this.
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LStrKBEtoN42a1KCh1Kh_A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NeDeadxUW-M/Tpt4dhDfTPI/AAAAAAAABQE/6RsH7cv8NHA/s400/DSCN9189.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

WTF? yeah so I couldn't get the toob all the way in, so it had to come back out. I locked the last inch sticking out into the vice and pulled, and pulled some more, then there was a pop and I flew across the garage. Sweet it's out right, nope sheered off at the grind marks :evil: So now I have 2/3's of my toob in there and the holes are nowhere near lined up.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/S9F6wddlHtM-0dmQuWN3hg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kY_OptZVBCE/Tpt4cH6V7-I/AAAAAAAABP8/avEowbsOiNw/s400/DSCN9190.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

So I'm looking at my 12 dollar paperweight and decide that I cant hurt anything by trying to drill it. The tight spot is by the "rectangular casting marks on the long side about a 1/2" from the pumpkin.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/VV5_6mpbAKWyRgdepFiDjw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TNiYWVdOTRI/Tpt4hOhVdsI/AAAAAAAABQM/HTbKQh1yf_k/s400/DSCN9192.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

Wasn't pretty but it's doable, axle saved!

One of the best parts of this mod is running your c-hub or lockout screws into some aluminum, feels weird knowing there tight lol. So if you've stripped your axle holes pay attention to this next part. I cut a small piece to fill up the remaining space. If your not worried about axle breakage you could insert short pieces just into the ends to repair the damaged holes.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QbnesA2XORzcdZ7_1J3pxg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Augu_0-fju4/Tpt4mq8TC4I/AAAAAAAABQc/1J48cJznpwQ/s400/DSCN9194.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Rq2G8LX-NWV96_VdL9OSbg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qP7bzaeWakk/Tpt4PVfjTeI/AAAAAAAABPc/XVo4nA5X_E8/s400/DSCN9198.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

Time to drill out your top holes for the truss screws and the lockout holes, I didn't drill the spare holes on the bottom, I added the little setscrews to my screw collection. I would tell you what size drill bit I used but it's so small it's not readable.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yqHRMl1orFH4s41gpEuwyg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h_Xlvr9Dw9U/Tpt4RR80SbI/AAAAAAAABPs/N3ZYCJVfapw/s400/DSCN9199.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

Check out the groovy pieces of my ring gear missing
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tTNHJYl5meqmODP5iR00yQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5473JU5G218/Tpt4YIkgcCI/AAAAAAAABP0/mkErrHv4IKE/s400/DSCN9200.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/Speedweigand/Wraith?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Wraith</a></td></tr></table>

If your gonna try the toob deal make sure you clear the inside, I thought I had, tried to hurry then spent and hour salvaging my axle.
The short side takes a 37mm long piece and the long side is 93mm. An easier way would be to take about a 70mm piece, file your recesses into it, then insert it til the holes line up. I'm sort of OCD and had to have the whole damn thing full, that's just me. We know where it will break so as long as the 4 link mount area is covered then I don't see a huge difference in strength if the toob runs the whole length or part way.

Let's just hope we get upgraded axles or longer trusses pretty soon, swapping the axle out isn't my idea of maintenance but...

Axial is watching this thread, and they are aware so no need to call with any hate. Personally I don't feel that the axle is weak, however I do believe a much stronger axle could be made with only minor improvements. They did say that my usage was "slightly beyond the intentions of the model" lol but all the info, this thread and the youtube videos were being forwarded to the R&D guys. So can't wait to hear from them.

I emailed RC4WD Friday to see how strong they feel their aluminum ones are, anxiously waiting for a reply from them.

Going back to the track this week too, lots more gear so if it breaks this time at least it'll have a good reason.

I'll post more as soon as I know more,
Good luck fellows, happy bashing!

 

[Speedweigand]

I'd bet the aluminum is stronger.

I also think the recess for the socket screw head is why it broke there. I'd bet if it wasn't recessed and they just used some button head screws instead of a recess and socket head it would be much stronger.

That's a good idea too "thumbsup"

 

[rangercat23]

the aluminum tubes sounds like a quick easy mod. good idea!

 

[kdrodworks316]

WOW! My buddies and I were just talking about how strong we thought the housings were. I'm impressed with the broken tube. Nice simple mod to beef it up. We are going to beef ours up before we have this issue, but I see some rc4wd axles going under my truck asap!

 

[Speedweigand]

WOW! My buddies and I were just talking about how strong we thought the housings were. I'm impressed with the broken tube. Nice simple mod to beef it up. We are going to beef ours up before we have this issue, but I see some rc4wd axles going under my truck asap!

Dude fresh axles are tough.
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<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CCUB_EG_j2U" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
The is a problem with the toobz, mine now seems to be bent slightly, idk how :roll: lol, not bad but worth mentioning. Towards the end of the video there's close-ups of the axle.

The axle breaking is a 12$ dollar whatever kinda part, the sh*tty part is your gonna bend one of your 17$ dogbones or your 50$ cvd's :shock:

My advice is if you see excessive camber, walk to it... don't try and drive it, that'll minimioze the damage a little. I was able to straighten mine but it wasn't that bad. I was getting ready to do some Max D style three wheeled destruction but decided it was a bad idea lol

 

[Speedweigand]

Oh I forgot, RC4WD returned my email with this;

Hello,

We will add the weight in the next day or two.

As for the billet axle. It may or may not hold up under your conditions. It will be much tougher than plastic though.

Thanks
Tom

-RC4WD Support Team

I was hoping more for a "hell no it won't break" but I kinda figured. It suffers from the same weak point as the plastic one. Billet is damn tough but can't defy physics.

 

[Postclanker]

I was hoping more for a "hell no it won't break" but I kinda figured. It suffers from the same weak point as the plastic one. Billet is damn tough but can't defy physics
(Quote)

doesn't look like it can defy you either....you keep trying to find the limits of all these materials...
Interesting...I'll keep watching you break it...:mrgreen:

 

[Speedweigand]

I gotta question for you on the wraith beef toobs. I saw that you used 9mm aluminum but I just wanted to ask how long they are on each side. I wanted to cut them I one shoot I don't want them to be to short or to long and hit the diff gears or rub on the bearings

If your gonna try the toob deal make sure you clear the inside, I thought I had, tried to hurry then spent and hour salvaging my axle.
The short side takes a 37mm long piece and the long side is 93mm. An easier way would be to take about a 70mm piece, file your recesses into it, then insert it til the holes line up. I'm sort of OCD and had to have the whole damn thing full, that's just me. We know where it will break so as long as the 4 link mount area is covered then I don't see a huge difference in strength if the toob runs the whole length or part way.

This is from the broken axle thread, those are max lengths... After doing several axles I can tell you some axles are way harder than others. What I recommend now is a little easier and still seems to hold up fine. For the long side you need about 60mm and 35mm for the short side. File your slots 28mm from the ends, you need 5mm clearance for the bearings in the frt, the rear toobz can hang out as the bearing is in the lockout, but if you ever want to put the rr axle on the frt you'd be screwed.

Super important to have the slots lined up, you will not be able to turn the toob once inside the axle! Insert the toob til the slots line up and drill your new holes for the c-hubs and axle truss. Be careful on my buddy's rear axle it was giving me a hard time and I got all kung fu with it and shoved the toob in to far, this makes for a giant pita. If possible insert your toobz with a large vise so you don't have to push them in and possibly go too far.

Oh and I cut mine with a basic copper pipe cutter, takes seconds and cost about 4-10$

Good luck!

PS I'm going to add this to my thread

 

[Speedweigand]

I was hoping more for a "hell no it won't break" but I kinda figured. It suffers from the same weak point as the plastic one. Billet is damn tough but can't defy physics
(Quote)

doesn't look like it can defy you either....you keep trying to find the limits of all these materials...
Interesting...I'll keep watching you break it...:mrgreen:

Yeah I've given up on the track for now, at some point they'll change the layout and I'll try again. I'm actually looking at picking up a 10th scale SCT or even a HPI mini trophy. This winter I'm gonna build some sort of hybrid like rgberrish's Dorkstar, I just recently saw his build wow, can't believe nobody brought that up 2 months ago when the axle broke. A hybrid is what I need, it would fix all my problems.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/2-2-scale-rigs/218237-2010-dorkstar-hybrid.html

Another sweet hybrid
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/2-2-scale-rigs/323905-dmgs-thug-ifs-hybrid.html

Idk for sure but I want a solid axle for the track for better or worse I just want to see the suspension drop a scale 36" maybe some hacked up scx frame rails, wraith back axle, and 1/8th scale buggy IFS up frt :twisted:

I will say the Wraith axle has proven to be quite durable with the toob in there. I have resorted to more traditional means of trying to break it. Seems I've been bitten by the scale bug... some spy shots

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It's hard to see but there's a windshield in there too.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial-wraith/339725-speedweigands-wraith-official-build-thread.html

 

[Steelfish]

The axle breaking is a 12$ dollar whatever kinda part, the sh*tty part is your gonna bend one of your 17$ dogbones or your 50$ cvd's :shock:

now you got my attention