Panther Tires - Questions

[Locked Up]

There won't be any 6" 2.2 tires they are to big for all, except mabe a clod based 2.2. there is a small number of these and from a marketing standpoint thats not a good move.

Do look for some goood stuff to come.


IB..

If people are making their own custom tires that are taller (like JIA), and people are drooling over the Rockstomper (wishing it was a little stickier) ... someone is gonna make a 6" sticky 2.2 and it will sell, just like in the 1:1 world.

I know that not everyone will jump on the bandwagon right away, but that's because their rigs aren't made to handle the larger tires yet. A 33" tire used to rule the 1:1 world .... now guys are stuffing 49" IROKs on their junk. I think TSL made a pretty good marketing move producing larger tires. Sooner or later RC will do the same.

I don't think there are many people that would say they would not take extra ground clearance if the rest of the tire was up to snuff. Does it change COG? Absolutly, but there are things you can do to offset that.... like wheels with less BS.

 

[DUDE]

If people are making their own custom tires that are taller (like JIA), and people are drooling over the Rockstomper (wishing it was a little stickier) ... someone is gonna make a 6" sticky 2.2 and it will sell, just like in the 1:1 world.

I know that not everyone will jump on the bandwagon right away, but that's because their rigs aren't made to handle the larger tires yet. A 33" tire used to rule the 1:1 world .... now guys are stuffing 49" IROKs on their junk. I think TSL made a pretty good marketing move producing larger tires. Sooner or later RC will do the same.

I don't think there are many people that would say they would not take extra ground clearance if the rest of the tire was up to snuff. Does it change COG? Absolutly, but there are things you can do to offset that.... like wheels with less BS.

your right, bigger tires do help those who can't see a good line and need all the help they can get. :lol:

 

[chrisjlittle]

your right, bigger tires do help those who can't see a good line and need all the help they can get. :lol:

I can see and agree with both sides on this one. The only thing I can say is that comp courses will continue to get harder, and a 6" tire will accelerate this. The way things have been going, even with a 6 inch tire everybody will still have to know how to drive in order to win. So, I say bring 'em on! Any dedicated racer should be willing to push their vehicle to the very limit of every regulation. Make the tech guys earn their keep.

 

[DUDE]

I can see and agree with both sides on this one. The only thing I can say is that comp courses will continue to get harder, and a 6" tire will accelerate this. The way things have been going, even with a 6 inch tire everybody will still have to know how to drive in order to win. So, I say bring 'em on! Any dedicated racer should be willing to push their vehicle to the very limit of every regulation. Make the tech guys earn their keep.

you will never keep a 2.2 together with 6" tires even with what is offered right now. The greatly increased leverage affect alone will hurt climbing performance on a steep climb, you will be flipping over backwards easier.

Then there is the COG issue to be had, that would be increased too, you can only lower a chassis so far and again hurting performance.

Is it just me that noticed anything?? isn't it a fact you haven't seen one or any of the top drivers in the nation begging for a ridiculously tall tire??

Our club has been running some pretty extreme courses for awhile now. The best drivers will make the good scores. The not so good drivers will whine about the courses being to tough, nuff said. :lol:

If anybody in the 2.2 class wants to play with big tires, then buck up and build a Super class rig. ;-)"thumbsup"

 

[chrisjlittle]

you will never keep a 2.2 together with 6" tires even with what is offered right now.

What about the clod based 2.2 rigs? I think they would hold up just fine. As for other stuff, big tires are gonna push the aftermarket to make better/stronger shaftys. As it has been said before, there aren't any decent tall 2.2s out there (excluding the hybrid stuff which seems to do pretty well), so who's to say where the evolution would go? The top rigs in this sport will continue to evolve, we have all seen how fast things have changed. I'm not saying a 6" tire would change everything, but who knows? I just like options. No one's gonna make losi stop making claws just because someone else came out with a good tall tire.

 

[Mnster]

your right, bigger tires do help those who can't see a good line and need all the help they can get. :lol:

I agree big tires are all hipe..."thumbsup"

The people that think they are cool are people who have never used them.

The wheelbase is the real determining factor on how big of tire you need to run.

 

[danielk]

raptorman makes those crazy custom tires. are you saying he is making up for his driving ability?

 

[dezfan]

I agree big tires are all hipe..."thumbsup"

The people that think they are cool are people who have never used them.

The wheelbase is the real determining factor on how big of tire you need to run.

Not all hype, but absolutly un-needed for a non Clod based rig.

I switched back to a shafty this year, I won't be running the jumbo tires!

 

[toyofast]

Is it just me that noticed anything?? isn't it a fact you haven't seen one or any of the top drivers in the nation begging for a ridiculously tall tire??

Doug.... Those of us that have been to Nationals, and been in the crawling community long enough know when to just be quiet and let these companies listen to n00bies.



If you want input from someone that has been in the crawler scene since the early days......

For a 2.2 tire:
-About 4.5" tall
-About 2.5" wide
-Sticky compound, not just "soft" but sticky that'll grip the rocks
-If they are a quality comp tire, then no need to worry about how long they last.
-Make sure you have plenty of horizontal edges/tread to push/pull the rig forward. Make sure you have some latteral edges/tread to help with turning/sidehilling.
-Don't make the edge of the tire(sidewall meets tread surface) a square... make it rounded, but not too rounded.
-Don't make too much sidewall tread. Too much leads to tires getting sucked into holes that you want out of. Too little will just keep you spinning. Perhaps small "V" treads on sidewall. Best of both worlds.

For a Super based tire:
-Good luck.
-Same/similar size to the Moab XL but better.
-Better sidehill traction and more voids in the tread.



First prototypes should be made of the softest/stickist compound you have. Then contact Jason here on RCC to find out who and where these tires should be sent for "testing" as he has some knowldge on what clubs are active and can help with testing results.


There are many, many n00bies on RCC that have never competed, never even ran with more than 5 people and many that have no idea how to build a crawler. Be careful about whos advice you take from here. Not everyone is running on a full "pack"...

 

[slobin3d]

other that the extra .25 inch of diff clearance I can't see any advantage of running a tall tire, their bouncy, they side hill like crap and the make the truck very tip happy. You can drop the CG some but even that has its limits and on my truck its about as low as you could possibly get, with my 1.5 inches of belly clearance

 

[Mnster]

Exactly, if you like to run clod axles with huge diffs ok big tires might be ok. But, even then you will see the disadvantages.

Supers are a totally different ball game do to the wheelbase.

 

[dezfan]

Doug.... Those of us that have been to Nationals, and been in the crawling community long enough know when to just be quiet and let these companies listen to n00bies.



If you want input from someone that has been in the crawler scene since the early days......

For a 2.2 tire:
-About 4.5" tall
-About 2.5" wide
-Sticky compound, not just "soft" but sticky that'll grip the rocks
-If they are a quality comp tire, then no need to worry about how long they last.
-Make sure you have plenty of horizontal edges/tread to push/pull the rig forward. Make sure you have some latteral edges/tread to help with turning/sidehilling.
-Don't make the edge of the tire(sidewall meets tread surface) a square... make it rounded, but not too rounded.
-Don't make too much sidewall tread. Too much leads to tires getting sucked into holes that you want out of. Too little will just keep you spinning. Perhaps small "V" treads on sidewall. Best of both worlds.

For a Super based tire:
-Good luck.
-Same/similar size to the Moab XL but better.
-Better sidehill traction and more voids in the tread.



First prototypes should be made of the softest/stickist compound you have. Then contact Jason here on RCC to find out who and where these tires should be sent for "testing" as he has some knowldge on what clubs are active and can help with testing results.


There are many, many n00bies on RCC that have never competed, never even ran with more than 5 people and many that have no idea how to build a crawler. Be careful about whos advice you take from here. Not everyone is running on a full "pack"...

Listen to the man!"thumbsup"

 

[Mnster]

Toyofast is right, glance at the join dates and user post counts before you take solid information in. Tire knowledge is inquired through years of prototyping, driving, experimenting, and modifying. Not just reading and viewing posts.

 

[Cole82]

Toyofast is right, glance at the join dates and user post counts before you take solid information in. Tire knowledge is inquired through years of prototyping, driving, experimenting, and modifying. Not just reading and viewing posts.

remember smasher tires from losi I used at devil's lake.
Still the best tires I have used. They just need a little more height.

 

[SpyderMonkee]

Refer to post #89 above for good advice on the 2.2 tire. I'd add a little more height, 5" tall perhaps; but agree with the 2.25" width.

I've experimented with taller, 5.75" to 6" 2.2 tires and have gone back to shelf bought goods closer to 5" in height. My trucks performance is far better with the shorter tire 95% of the time.

I'll agree that there is a certain appeal to the aesthetics of the 6" tall tires on my trucks, so they would be cool for scale building; but as regards their ability to be useful as a serious comp tire, naah.

 

[dkingston]

I didn't post here expecting to get responses only from the seasoned crawlers, I appreciate input from everyone. There have been a couple of posts that have made me scratch my head but that doesn't mean that I ignored them. I will not participate in "noob bashing" I think it is bad for the hobby.

With that said...
Our most successful racing tires have been developed by asking the racers what they want and need. Some input got more attention than others. I believe that our crawler tires will have the same success by communicating with the people who will use them.

Panther will be making more than one crawler tires. My goal is for 2-3 in '08 and all will come in multiple compounds. First out of the gate will be a 2.2 tire. Will we hit a home run on the first one? With adequate proto and testing I believe it will be very, very good.

Maybe I am out of line by saying this but... if size is so critical, why hasn't a height limit (max and min) been set by your sanctioning body? Standardization is a good thing from my perspective. As this portion of the R/C hobby gets bigger, this will be more critical in the very near future.

toyofast - ygpm


- David

 

[rockwerks]

I didn't post here expecting to get responses only from the seasoned crawlers, I appreciate input from everyone. There have been a couple of posts that have made me scratch my head but that doesn't mean that I ignored them. I will not participate in "noob bashing" I think it is bad for the hobby.

With that said...
Our most successful racing tires have been developed by asking the racers what they want and need. I believe that our crawler tires will have the same success by communicating with the people who will use them.

Panther will be making more than one crawler tires. My goal is for 2-3 in '08 and all will come in multiple compounds. First out of the gate will be a 2.2 tire. Will we hit a home run on the first one? With adequate proto and testing I believe it will be very, very good.

Maybe I am out of line by saying this but... if size is so critical, why hasn't a height limit (max and min) been set by your sanctioning body? Standardization is a good thing from my perspective. As this portion of the R/C hobby gets bigger, this will be more critical in the very near future.

toyofast - ygpm


- David

I think it has been proven that a taller tire does not always help and many times hinders performance. higher center or gravity, shorter effective wheelbase, side hilling due to sidewall flex is also effected, Ive made and tried a few sets of monster tires and frankly for 2.2 the moab, losi's etc are about the perfect height, maybe 1/4" taller but that would be about it. I cant wait to see and test your tires, used to run some in the dirt when I raced stadium trucks. Always a top notch product"thumbsup"

 

[slobin3d]

Maybe I am out of line by saying this but... if size is so critical, why hasn't a height limit (max and min) been set by your sanctioning body? Standardization is a good thing from my perspective. As this portion of the R/C hobby gets bigger, this will be more critical in the very near future.
- David

Mostly because it hasn't really been an issue, the people who have been running Frankensteined tall tires haven't really had significant success that would require someone to equalize the playing field. That being said rules like that also stifle creativity which is the life blood of our sport. You're doing what you should by getting several opinions from serious players and beginners alike and working for a happy medium"thumbsup"

 

[Locked Up]

Maybe I am out of line by saying this but... if size is so critical, why hasn't a height limit (max and min) been set by your sanctioning body?

They have for 2.2:

Tires may be modified using a pliable rubber material, from any size tire, but must not exceed a total uncompressed outer diameter of 6 inches.

From the 2007 Usrcca Rules Comittee Updates thread found here:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51047

"thumbsup"

Toyofast is right, glance at the join dates and user post counts before you take solid information in. Tire knowledge is inquired through years of prototyping, driving, experimenting, and modifying. Not just reading and viewing posts.

Anyone that joined recently or hasn't spent 1000's of hours on here obviously is a moron and their ideas should be instantly cast aside.







I think you meant to say knowledge is "acquired".

 

[dkingston]

That being said rules like that also stifle creativity which is the life blood of our sport.

Playing devil's advocate... Didn't you just describe all rules?

Locked Up: that max seems to me to be arbitrary since there isn't a lot of competitive tires in that size.

If you would like to know the biggest reason Panther has taken so long to enter the crawler market, read all the previous posts. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot tires do we build?

Either way, we are here. The natural competitive nature of Proline, Losi and Panther in the tire market will constantly raise the bar for tires in the crawler market. All I am saying is that the bar will be raised higher and faster if we all have a sense of what this market wants and what the limits are. The cost of molds and prototyping are too high to do raw experimentation.


- David