Thanks for putting this together."thumbsup"
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Shock Setup Tip for reducing Torque Twist
- Thread starter Rich Trujillo
- Start date
Thanks for putting this together."thumbsup"
Great video, thanks Casey! 8)
Nice idea, it creates a travel compression stop for the short upper spring, thus forcing the lower spring to do the work during remainder of shock compression. Thanks for posting Rich, great pictures too!
Edit, this mod will benefit any vehicle where you want to isolate and force the firmer spring rate to take over before the shock bottoms out. How to properly do this had been bothering me for awhile, but I'd not found a solution and had forgotten about until you posted. I'd tried all the upper and lower springs and found the firm upper and lower too firm, but when mixed rates were used the softer rate spring ended up doing all the work...effectively negating my use of one firmer and one softer spring. On my mod list now.
Nate's work is never done lol.
I run Gmade shocks on my Ascender's so cant do this unless i find shorter springs. Gamde do a lot of shorter shocks, so springs from them may work and modding an old adjuster could do the trick.
What is the purpose of the softer upper spring anyway? For softer bumps? I get it for a full size rig, but a RC car - that is failing me. In otherwords, why not just remove the smaller softer spring and run the spring stop down to take up the space?
When I first got my RTR and started setting it up and modifying it per this forum, one of the first things was taking some preload off to let the rig ride lower, then drilled the pistons out and installed lighter shock fluid. And I shaved and polished the inside of the spring separator collar. This all made the suspension work a LOT better, but also introduced noticeable torque twist. Previous to the mods I hadn't noticed and wouldn't have paid any attention. But now with the suspension setup softer, both spring preload and lighter damping, TT gets going pretty good on severe climbs.
When I first got my RTR and started setting it up and modifying it per this forum, one of the first things was taking some preload off to let the rig ride lower, then drilled the pistons out and installed lighter shock fluid. And I shaved and polished the inside of the spring separator collar. This all made the suspension work a LOT better, but also introduced noticeable torque twist. Previous to the mods I hadn't noticed and wouldn't have paid any attention. But now with the suspension setup softer, both spring preload and lighter damping, TT gets going pretty good on severe climbs.
Smaller bump compliance and less chassis rock/upset on technical climbs/descents. You can do that, but then you lose some soft flexiness, I tried and it ended up either too stiff flex travel wise especially with rear swaybar (even with my softer home-made bar). With softer springs TT is worse and it tends to tuck the rear axle and roll over backwards on steep climbs. "thumbsup"
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This video shows the setup on full size 1:1 shocks, so gives a better view of how it works. Rich posted this on the Farcebuk page so not my idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWTLe14Mbm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWTLe14Mbm0
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I ordered a couple of sets of shock bodies for the collars today, and a couple of sets of new pistons. The latter for updating damping.
I now see four different piston configurations - the pack I got today had 3 holes in two of them and 1 hole in two of them. My original kit had 2 smaller holes in all of them, and the latest kit had notched pistons. :shock:
I now see four different piston configurations - the pack I got today had 3 holes in two of them and 1 hole in two of them. My original kit had 2 smaller holes in all of them, and the latest kit had notched pistons. :shock:
Shock collars as per Rich Trujillo's mod, thanks Rich! Made them by sanding off the ridges on outside of spare shock adjuster collars. As the shocks compress, the floating spacer between the upper and lower springs contacts the collar stopping the action of the short softer spring and forcing the stiffer lower spring into action. Even though the RTR (and kit) upper and lower springs are silver/medium, the lower long spring is a stiffer rate spring, therefore these force the two-stage progressive setup into action! Works great on the bench and easy to adjust the amount of travel where the longer firmer spring is forced to do the work.
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender/595450-shock-setup-tip-reducing-torque-twist.html
After test crawling the other day and bench testing, I've put the front shocks back inboard to get little more flex back that I was missing. Current spring setup is silver/silver stock springs on all four shocks, collars only on the rear atm. I left the collars full height and screwed them on from the bottom of the shocks and gently snugged up against the main aluminum spring preload adjuster. For my truck and driving style, this is perfect, truck sits with lower arms just above parallel to the bench, I'm getting little more flex than with my previous setup, and the lower stiff springs are being forced to do work, love it! More tuning to come.
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender/595450-shock-setup-tip-reducing-torque-twist.html
After test crawling the other day and bench testing, I've put the front shocks back inboard to get little more flex back that I was missing. Current spring setup is silver/silver stock springs on all four shocks, collars only on the rear atm. I left the collars full height and screwed them on from the bottom of the shocks and gently snugged up against the main aluminum spring preload adjuster. For my truck and driving style, this is perfect, truck sits with lower arms just above parallel to the bench, I'm getting little more flex than with my previous setup, and the lower stiff springs are being forced to do work, love it! More tuning to come.
The top caps can also be cut down to use as collars. Did a second rig that way last night. A little more fiddly, but work.
The knurling is very hard to grind off. I cut them down as much as possible with a blade then hit the grinder with them. More melting than grinding. :roll:
Funny thing is I get as much twist from drag braking as I do from throttle. It just twists the other way. ;-)
The knurling is very hard to grind off. I cut them down as much as possible with a blade then hit the grinder with them. More melting than grinding. :roll:
Funny thing is I get as much twist from drag braking as I do from throttle. It just twists the other way. ;-)
hipkatgreaser
Newbie
Yes, good use of parts too!
I sanded them down with benchtop sander, took about 10 minutes to do two, but yes bunch of dust and some melting lol. :ror:"thumbsup"
Yes, but it's not as detrimental and careful throttle use helps. I did my rear shocks, but am thinking about doing the fronts too because of the reverse TT.
I rigged the collars up so that I could chuck it up in a cordless drill, then I took it to the fine side of a double bastard file. It was slightly off center but got it close enough for me to touch it up with the file by hand.
Is that foam at the top of your shock?Shock collars as per Rich Trujillo's mod, thanks Rich! Made them by sanding off the ridges on outside of spare shock adjuster collars. As the shocks compress, the floating spacer between the upper and lower springs contacts the collar stopping the action of the short softer spring and forcing the stiffer lower spring into action. Even though the RTR (and kit) upper and lower springs are silver/medium, the lower long spring is a stiffer rate spring, therefore these force the two-stage progressive setup into action! Works great on the bench and easy to adjust the amount of travel where the longer firmer spring is forced to do the work.
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender/595450-shock-setup-tip-reducing-torque-twist.html
After test crawling the other day and bench testing, I've put the front shocks back inboard to get little more flex back that I was missing. Current spring setup is silver/silver stock springs on all four shocks, collars only on the rear atm. I left the collars full height and screwed them on from the bottom of the shocks and gently snugged up against the main aluminum spring preload adjuster. For my truck and driving style, this is perfect, truck sits with lower arms just above parallel to the bench, I'm getting little more flex than with my previous setup, and the lower stiff springs are being forced to do work, love it! More tuning to come.
No, that's the plastic shock preload collars that I sanded smooth to use for the two stage setup. They do look kinda that way due to the sanded finish. "thumbsup"
Edit: I'll see what I can do about the look. ;-)
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Sorry, I though the modified part was the part in between the two springs. I'll have to refresh my memory on this mod. Thanks.
Alexander_0_1
Rock Crawler
I get it, it’s like how a proline powerstroke shock works, only the part that separates the two springs, and the preload stopper aren’t one piece. Very nice tech tip, might use it on my other ascender.
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