Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith - Gearing Added!

[fourspeed]

This thread is really helpful. I have novak goat 3s with ballistic 18.5T motor, what is the best gearing gor this combo?i really want to read all of this thread but 75 pages of reading on iphone will pops out my eyes, lol

 

[T I N Y]

This thread is really helpful. I have novak goat 3s with ballistic 18.5T motor, what is the best gearing gor this combo?i really want to read all of this thread but 75 pages of reading on iphone will pops out my eyes, lol

You only have to read the third post....lol

 

[cravo]

I measured it and as the name implies it measures 36mm x 56mm. It just touches the link mount but certainly doesn't require anything to be done.

HI i have contacted hobbywing staff so that can give me more info on this motor
here is what they have told me by email


AMP draw of the 3656 3400kv 4 pole sensored?
The max current(AMP) is 120A, but please don't let it works so high current for a long time, or it will easily get hot and burnt out.
So please keep monitoring ESC & motor temperatures(< 95℃) to protect your ESC and motor from damage..

Is it a Y or D configuration motor? (Y or Delta windings configuration).
Delta windings configuration

Also what is the wattage power of this 3400kv 4 pole sensored 3656?
About 1500W

Best Regards!
--------------------------------------------------------
Tech Support of Hobbywing
2013-12-27
Hobbywing Technology Co., LTD.
(ISO 9001:2008 Quality Management System Certificated)
HOBBYWING TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.


I was really pretty impressed with the configs on this AWSOME MOTOR FOR THE WRAITH, i am runing it with 56/14 gearing and its awsome paired with a mamba max pro esc.
I am running 2s lipos 5000 mah 50c venon hardcase lipo
and 2s turnigy nanotech 5800mah 40c lipo
here are my settings on the mamba max pro:
run : sensored mode only
no timing advance neither cheat mode (4 poles motors doesnt need cheat mode or timing advance it will only add heat issues to the motor and almost anything in speed gain)
100% full power
40% rear power
20% drag break
10% break power
dead band: 0.1250 (this way it gives a lot of smooth control to crawl without having to put a smaller pinion and get the best top speed)
start power: low
80% punch control (to go easy on the drivelines, i am running stock wb8 drivelines with a piece of rod inside and they are holding up fine) even so from a dead stop i can do wheelies even with 80% punch control, now imagine with no punch control
YOU WILL HAVE TO UPGRADE TO 32 PITCH SPUR GEARS, the one i am using is from duratrax evader 56t and a 14t pinion, with this gearing it if fits anything bigger will be a 15t pinion nothing more (NO ROOM) BUT with the 56t spur i can keep my spur gear cover.
NOTE, YOU WILL HAVE TO SAND THE COVER WHERE THE SHAFT OF THE MOTOR HITS THE SPUR GEAR COVER A BIT, I PUT MINE AND THEN I SAW THE MOTOR MELTED THE PLASTIC SPUR GEAR COVER ON THE PART WHERE THE MOTOR SHAFT HITS THE SPUR GEAR COVER.
For crawling you can put a lower pinion of course and for speed a lower SPUR WITH A BIGGER PINION ALSO, BECAUSE THE MOTOR TEMP IS LOW, I THINK IT CAN HANDLE A BIGGER PINION AND A SMALLER SPUR ALTHOUG IT WILL LOOSE A BIT CRAWLABILITY, I WILL STICK WITH THIS SET UP, AND ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY.
Running time was improved now with those settings, i am getting about over an hour running time with this motor, something between an hour and an an hour and 20 minutes, mix of crawling and speed runs. i will confirm this again when i do more testing with it.
Motor runs cooler than ever, crawling or bashing either way, i can put my finger on it by more than 5 seconds with no issues, even on hard crawling, on uphils slow as a turtle the motor doesnt heat, sometimes the esc turns on the fan, but almost barely, and i am NOT USING A BEC , for now.
Loved this motor, thanks to CALDERWOOD, friend here on rc crawler, nigels_world, AWSOME TIP MATE, this motor is very much the same thing as a pro4 from tekin and half the price USD 84.00 i bought mine from here if someone is interested.
Hobbywing XERUN 3656SD Sensored 1/10 SCT Brushless 4-Pole Motor - 3400kv (Black)
hobbywing website
HOBBYWING TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.

hope to see more friends to test this POWER HORSE MOTOR, its the best bang for the buck paired with the mamba max pro its awsome, no issues, no heat, and with 80% punch control bateries are lasting longer and i am not feeling any lack of performance.

 

[Calderwood]

HI i have contacted hobbywing staff so that can give me more info on this motor
here is what they have told me by email


AMP draw of the 3656 3400kv 4 pole sensored?
The max current(AMP) is 120A, but please don't let it works so high current for a long time, or it will easily get hot and burnt out.
So please keep monitoring ESC & motor temperatures(< 95℃) to protect your ESC and motor from damage..

Is it a Y or D configuration motor? (Y or Delta windings configuration).
Delta windings configuration

Also what is the wattage power of this 3400kv 4 pole sensored 3656?
About 1500W

Best Regards!
--------------------------------------------------------
Tech Support of Hobbywing
2013-12-27
Hobbywing Technology Co., LTD.
(ISO 9001:2008 Quality Management System Certificated)
HOBBYWING TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.


I was really pretty impressed with the configs on this AWSOME MOTOR FOR THE WRAITH, i am runing it with 56/14 gearing and its awsome paired with a mamba max pro esc.
I am running 2s lipos 5000 mah 50c venon hardcase lipo
and 2s turnigy nanotech 5800mah 40c lipo
here are my settings on the mamba max pro:
run : sensored mode only
no timing advance neither cheat mode (4 poles motors doesnt need cheat mode or timing advance it will only add heat issues to the motor and almost anything in speed gain)
100% full power
40% rear power
20% drag break
10% break power
dead band: 0.1250 (this way it gives a lot of smooth control to crawl without having to put a smaller pinion and get the best top speed)
start power: low
80% punch control (to go easy on the drivelines, i am running stock wb8 drivelines with a piece of rod inside and they are holding up fine) even so from a dead stop i can do wheelies even with 80% punch control, now imagine with no punch control
YOU WILL HAVE TO UPGRADE TO 32 PITCH SPUR GEARS, the one i am using is from duratrax evader 56t and a 14t pinion, with this gearing it if fits anything bigger will be a 15t pinion nothing more (NO ROOM) BUT with the 56t spur i can keep my spur gear cover.
NOTE, YOU WILL HAVE TO SAND THE COVER WHERE THE SHAFT OF THE MOTOR HITS THE SPUR GEAR COVER A BIT, I PUT MINE AND THEN I SAW THE MOTOR MELTED THE PLASTIC SPUR GEAR COVER ON THE PART WHERE THE MOTOR SHAFT HITS THE SPUR GEAR COVER.
For crawling you can put a lower pinion of course and for speed a lower SPUR WITH A BIGGER PINION ALSO, BECAUSE THE MOTOR TEMP IS LOW, I THINK IT CAN HANDLE A BIGGER PINION AND A SMALLER SPUR ALTHOUG IT WILL LOOSE A BIT CRAWLABILITY, I WILL STICK WITH THIS SET UP, AND ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY.
Running time was improved now with those settings, i am getting about over an hour running time with this motor, something between an hour and an an hour and 20 minutes, mix of crawling and speed runs. i will confirm this again when i do more testing with it.
Motor runs cooler than ever, crawling or bashing either way, i can put my finger on it by more than 5 seconds with no issues, even on hard crawling, on uphils slow as a turtle the motor doesnt heat, sometimes the esc turns on the fan, but almost barely, and i am NOT USING A BEC , for now.
Loved this motor, thanks to CALDERWOOD, friend here on rc crawler, nigels_world, AWSOME TIP MATE, this motor is very much the same thing as a pro4 from tekin and half the price USD 84.00 i bought mine from here if someone is interested.
Hobbywing XERUN 3656SD Sensored 1/10 SCT Brushless 4-Pole Motor - 3400kv (Black)
hobbywing website
HOBBYWING TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.

hope to see more friends to test this POWER HORSE MOTOR, its the best bang for the buck paired with the mamba max pro its awsome, no issues, no heat, and with 80% punch control bateries are lasting longer and i am not feeling any lack of performance.

Great feedback. I guessed I was pulling around 100 amps with this motor based on which packs I have puffed with it. :mrgreen: I guess I was pretty close. After I put this motor in I installed junfac carbon steel drive shafts. Let me just tell you that they make a cute snapping sound when they break a half throttle. :twisted: Nothing less than MIP for this motor.

I'm going to step up to 4s next time I make a battery order. It should be even more fun then.

This is in order, 3656sd, pro4, tenshock. The rotor for the 3656 dwarfs the pro4.

 

[cravo]

Great feedback. I guessed I was pulling around 100 amps with this motor based on which packs I have puffed with it. :mrgreen: I guess I was pretty close. After I put this motor in I installed junfac carbon steel drive shafts. Let me just tell you that they make a cute snapping sound when they break a half throttle. :twisted: Nothing less than MIP for this motor.

I'm going to step up to 4s next time I make a battery order. It should be even more fun then.

This is in order, 3656sd, pro4, tenshock. The rotor for the 3656 dwarfs the pro4.

I was about to do the same AND asked hobbywing they told me it can melt the motor but from my experience it will handle it if geared right AND watch the temps. I havê no problem at half throtle here is the tip, u set your end points on the controler /TX AND then u go on throtle AND advance forward a hair on throtle, it stopped right away, i AM running stock WB driveshafts with no issues at all, althought with a piece of rod inside AND metal gears from hot racing on my gear box. Awsome motor awsome set up. Other thing i saw was timing if u put until 15degress it seems u win a smal advance almost unnoticeable, but over that only heat AND lots of heat on motor AND ESC, maybe for speed runs this motor needs a higher ESC above 150amps or 150constant AND 760burst as the combo. Now im running sensored mode no timing at all AND cheat mode off.

 

[axial 4x4 crawler]

Hey here is my setup in my wraith:
- Tekin RS esc
- Tekin gens2 10.5t
- CC 10 amp BEC
- Hitec Hs- 7980th (611 0z. at 7.4v)
- Muchmore racing fan over the esc to prevent over-heating
Gearing:
- 48p 16 tooth pinion (this is small but anything much larger it would heat up too fast!!)
- 48p 80 tooth spur (I have stripped 3 of these in 2 years but my motor came loose and ate them up)
Battery:
- Venom 3s 5000 mah 50c battery (Huge improvement over a venom 2s, this is a hell-razing battery)
This is my fourth set-up in this wraith,I want to explain each one to you guys:
First set-up: This is a long one but Ill combine a few different set-ups). I first had the ae-2 and 20t then I switched to a 55t because I was a newbie in rc and found out the wraith was way to slow.
Second: Tekin fx-r with the 35t motor, good system for crawlers but then I got the idea for a basher so I put this system in my scx-10 and went on too....
Third: Tekin rs esc with a 13.5t redline motor and a 2s from venom. I couldn't believe after all the tranny work and driveshafts mods to be bullet-proof it was not fast for my liking.
Fourth and final: So lets take it a notch higher! The same rs esc but changed the 10.5t gens2 and after that my wraith finally was what i wanted. The motor gets hot sometimes but the esc is fine, with the settings from the hotwire boosted to their right level it needed a fan so I zip-tied a cheap muchmore racing fan over the soldering tabs (plenty of clearance from the hood). Then I had to drop the pinion size just a bit, I debated from a 16t and a 17t (48p) the 16t fit the best, oh and I had to cut the motor plate a little because if I didn't the mesh would be way to tight.

I can go on and on with upgrades and mods. I have done but this thread is about motors, so I hope that helped you guys I know its long but who cares As you can see it takes failure to figure out what you want, my wraith has been through a lot but still can handle the insane bashing. - axial 4x4 crawler

 

[defblade]

Ack! 80 pages!

Can I quickly ask what the real world difference is between 27t and 27x2?

I'm planning on starting with 27t on standard gearing (maybe increase pitch for the longer term) and NiMH, I know that the x2 means there's 2 smaller wires wound round 27 times each, but not clear on what that means at the wheels!

Thanks in advance.

 

[T I N Y]

Ack! 80 pages!

Can I quickly ask what the real world difference is between 27t and 27x2?

I'm planning on starting with 27t on standard gearing (maybe increase pitch for the longer term) and NiMH, I know that the x2 means there's 2 smaller wires wound round 27 times each, but not clear on what that means at the wheels!

Thanks in advance.

More torque. If I'm not wrong...I think that's it though.

 

[wraithbuilder]

hey guys im new to the site and i have a question about transmission gears... i run a 3900 kv brushless and recently started running 3s. ever since i have gone through idler gears like mad. is it ok to change to a robertsons racing gear or does something have to give.

 

[T I N Y]

hey guys im new to the site and i have a question about transmission gears... i run a 3900 kv brushless and recently started running 3s. ever since i have gone through idler gears like mad. is it ok to change to a robertsons racing gear or does something have to give.

The faster you change to metal gears the faster you'll stop chewing up the plastic....lol Go for it.

 

[Space671]

Hello, I'm trying to find the best Brushless set up i can use for Slow Crawling/Climbing.
I know Brushed is the way to go, but if i wanna switch it up and go fast, i can just easily swap out the motor for a faster one.
Any specific motors and esc recommendations?

Question #2, Do you recommend underdrive gearing or stock hd's?

Question #3, Will the Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster motor work good with the
MambaMaxPro Esc?

Thanks in advanced.

 

[Dimebagged]

I'm looking for a motor close to stock but maybe more powerful to run on the stock esc. And use a 3s lipo w/o burning up. And under $100
Thx in advance

 

[Gahndi]

I'm looking for a motor close to stock but maybe more powerful to run on the stock esc. And use a 3s lipo w/o burning up. And under $100
Thx in advance

You could go with a holmes hobbies crawlmaster 13t pro. Runs around 50 bucks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[Space671]

i just received the MambaMaxPro Esc in the mail
Now I'm looking for a motor, I'm looking at the Tekin Roc 412 motor but not sure which KV to get,
i want to do Slow RockCrawling/Hill climbing with some wheel speed. i'll be using 3s.
Should i get the 2300kv or 1800kv?


Thankyou.

 

[lala4fire]

Ol' harley recommends the 3100kv on 3s. Check his budget build thread.

 

[cravo]

i just received the MambaMaxPro Esc in the mail
Now I'm looking for a motor, I'm looking at the Tekin Roc 412 motor but not sure which KV to get,
i want to do Slow RockCrawling/Hill climbing with some wheel speed. i'll be using 3s.
Should i get the 2300kv or 1800kv?


Thankyou.

I advise you the 2300kv lhe 1800 will be too slow for anything other than crawling. I would tell u more get a hobbywing 3656sd 3400kv 4pole sensored lhe motor is awsome the rotor is bigger than lhe pro4 all lhe slow slow end u need and also speed if needed best part half lhe price of lhe pro 4. I have one paired with a mamba max pro esc and its lhe state of the art in motor construction it feells better than lhe castle or tekin, low temps high and low smooth power when u need.

 

[Space671]

Thanks for the info, i will look into that motor.
Is it true you can program the the Tekin Roc 412 3100kv motor to make it have less kv/rpm for crawling? and then you can bring it back up if you want speed?

 

[Calderwood]

Thanks for the info, i will look into that motor.
Is it true you can program the the Tekin Roc 412 3100kv motor to make it have less kv/rpm for crawling? and then you can bring it back up if you want speed?

The kv is derived from the mechanics of the motor. It's not something you can program. 3000-3500 kv sounds high but the motors that we are recommending, 3656sd, pro4, and roc412 are torquey 4 pole motors that still crawl extremely well. No brushless motor will start up smooth when headed down hill but that is more of a esc firmware issue that hopefully will be resolved this year.

My wraith with a 3656sd, 3s, and 60/11 gearing crawls great and goes 15mph.

 

[Space671]

The kv is derived from the mechanics of the motor. It's not something you can program. 3000-3500 kv sounds high but the motors that we are recommending, 3656sd, pro4, and roc412 are torquey 4 pole motors that still crawl extremely well. No brushless motor will start up smooth when headed down hill but that is more of a esc firmware issue that hopefully will be resolved this year.

My wraith with a 3656sd, 3s, and 60/11 gearing crawls great and goes 15mph.

Do recommend the 3100kv or 2300kv Roc412? Thanks for the info...

 

[Calderwood]

Do recommend the 3100kv or 2300kv Roc412? Thanks for the info...

I use a 3400kv so out of those two choices I would go with the 3100kv.