Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Rock Crawler motors- Lay down the Power!

[new2rocks]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

I have the Holmes 3500 puller pro standard in my 9lb Wraith. The motor stays cool, the ESC (MMP) stays coolish with the fan coming on now and then depending on the situation, and my 2200mah 3s batteries last about 1 and 1/2 hours. I've got great startup and have my throttle limited to 70% forward and 40% backward. I'm geared at 56/10 so I can't slow it down anymore with gearing. I could go to a 60 spur but that presents other issues. My question is, what would be the main differences, advantages, or disadvantages between running a 2200kv at 3s or running my 3500kv on 2s? Both of these options put me in the range of 25,000 RPMs motor wise. I feel like I'm running the wrong kv motor because I've done too much to get it to suit my purpose.

I just put the 3500 in my Wraith (replacing a ROC 412 3100) and love it on 3S. Not sure why you think you can't gear down from 56/10 - I run 56/9 in mine. The real question is why you feel you might have the wrong motor Startup is good, run times are good, and temps are good. Dialing back the reverse endpoint is common (I have it at 50-70% on most of my rigs), so I don't see that as an issue, either. What would you be trying to gain from dropping to 2S or moving to a lower kv motor?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[HahnsB2]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

I'm also confused what the problem is.

 

[SCREAMER]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Do you do faster trail stuff and bashing or crawling? I feel like it's a fantastic motor but I feel that I'm in the wrong kv range due to the fact that I have it limited to 70/40, 5.6:1 ratio on my spur and pinion, and I never go past half to 3/4 throttle because it's just too much wheelspeed for my application. I'm really just trying to get a better understanding of the difference between the two options I mentioned. For example, If I can gain 50% battery life or a cooler ESC or more throttle resolution by swapping to a 2200 kv on 3s then that's the kind of info I'm looking for. I'll be more than happy to stick with what I've got. It really is a great motor. I'm just trying to make sure it's the right one for my rig and gain knowledge for my next build.

 

[XSRCdesign]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

lower kv and higher voltage is generally (generally) better than running higher KV and less volts. For a few reasons in our applications. That's why Holmes always said "volt up and gear down"

If you aren't using all that RPM anyway, you would get better battery life and low speed control with a lower KV motor. Enough to notice? I'm not sure.

But if I had the choice I will almost always choose more voltage over higher kv.

Don't forget overall Rpm is only part of the equation. Start dropping voltage and you are going to lose more than wheel speed

 

[new2rocks]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Of the 3 options you're considering, take 3500 on 2S off the table. Battery run time will go down, and you will create more heat with that setup. As between the 3500 on 3S with endpoint dialed back like you have, and 2200 on 3S with endpoints dialed back less (or not at all), there may be hypothetical difference in throttle modulation, but it's questionable as to how noticeable it will be.

If you're really itching to try the 2200 kv motor, it certainly won't hurt (other than spending the extra money). But if the money isn't burning a hole in your pocket, there's nothing at all wrong with your current setup. The 5.6:1 spur/pinion ratio is fine and actually helps wth temps, throttle modulation, and torque at the wheels.

As far as how I use my Wraith, it's a combination of trailing, crawling in moderate to heavy rocks, and bashing. One of the things I do on just about all of my rigs is use an expo throttle setting to make the low- and medium-speed throttle response as smooth as possible. That leaves the top end only for the last bit of throttle travel. As far as the top end is concerned, I rarely use all the power on tap. When I do, it's usually just for a giggle. But I like having it there, and with the expo throttle setting, I never feel like I have to work to keep things nice and smooth in normal use.

I hope that helps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SCREAMER]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Good info, thanks guys. This gives me some more perspective. I think I'm just going to have to buy another Holmes motor (never a bad thing) this time in a 2200kv range. I will definitely reply back with my thoughts to keep this info in one place.

 

[big geo]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

We will look into this specific KV for future manufacturing. If you want something for 4s use, the 2100kv version can be geared up for wheelspeed in most applications. You didn't hear it from me, but the 3500kv also seems to handle 4s pretty dang good if it doesn't overheat and soften the rotor epoxy. :twisted:


2100kv 540 XL motors and others should be here in about a week.

So how cool do i need to keep it to run 4s? im running the ble too

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[svt923]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

So how cool do i need to keep it to run 4s? im running the ble too

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Most motors I have used say keep them under 160 with 180 being the absolute limit. I would say that should be pretty close for the Holmes motors too.

If you are pushing a U4 rig then temps may be an issue but for general trailing it shouldn't be a problem. My buddy's Wraith with a Puller Pro 3500 on 4S barely gets warm when out on the trail.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Yep, 160f on the case for generally safe running and 180f on the case for racing situations with short defined runtimes. I don't recall ever getting a Puller past 160f with typical installations and use, and that was in a Yeti doing fast passes in thick grass.

 

[Kev808]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Just placed a order, thanks"thumbsup"

 

[Ballistic17]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Just placed a order for the Puller 540s 3300kv and also got the Ble esc. Can't wait to try it out.

 

[Silent Panda]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

OK. Did some research...lots of lurking and now I have to ask a question...

Bomber...bashing, trail running, jumping...I plan to add collars and alum insert for driveshafts...

I want to run 3S and 2S...really depends on what fits and is good value.

I want an all around truck...I am more of a hammer head than tech driver. I will keep the truck light...no lights and bullshit...not really planning for metal axels.

Which Holmes motor? Stubby 3300 or Std 2200 or Std 3500? ESC will be Mamba Pro or what ever John recommends for heat...

 

[mikebecher]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

If you want to keep it light I would say go with the stubby. The Puller Pro Standard is a lot of motor and subsequently requires a lot of heavy steel and aluminum upgrades.

No fan and having the additional programming options has me wishing I'd bought a TrailMaster BLE Pro ESC instead of the MMP, although I'm still very happy with it.

That's just my 2 cents, I'm also interested to see what JRH has to say.

 

[new2rocks]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Agree with mikebecher. The Stubby 3300 is a beast of a motor as is (stronger than a ROC 412 in my SCX-10, standing wheelies on 3S in my China Jeep Skeleton, super smooth with plenty of top end on 2S in one of my TF2s). The 3500 makes sense in a heavier rig, if you're running 2.2s, and/or you really to take the torque over the top (like I do with my relatively heavy Wraith), but that doesn't sound like what you're looking for. I'd suggest going with the Stubby.

 

[Silent Panda]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Thank you for the info guys.

ESC...HH BLE Trail Master...or MMP...MMP has a fan...with the Stubby 3300, 3s max battery is the fan needed?

I was under the impression that I'd need a fan to crawl...trail run.

 

[new2rocks]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Go with the waterproofed BLE. You definitely don't need the fan. The load on the ESC for what we do is pretty low. I've switched most of my MMPs out now for BLEs, and they work great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Silent Panda]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Awesome...now to call around Cincy to see who has this stuff in stock.



EDIT - too impatient...Bought online from Holmes. Now I need to be buy the Bomber...that will be purchased at my LHS...If we don't patronize them, they will disappear.

 

[new2rocks]

Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

You probably won't find it in stock at many LHSs, but if you order the combo direct off of the HH website, you get 10% off. Hard to beat that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Silent Panda]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

There are several around here with it in stock.

30 bucks is worth both the instant gratification and support of LHS.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

I would put a 3300 stubby or 3500 540 in my own Bomber. Stubby if crawler/trail dedicated, and 540 if it was for rock racing.


2200kv stubby is also popular for crawling. A bit slow for my tastes, but I like having enough wheelspeed to jump a trail rig. I like 15 to 20mph in most rigs.