The CrAwLL BLACK
Rock Crawler
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
I'm officially drooling!
Those motors are TIGHT!
TEAM BROOD for the WIN "thumbsup"
I'm officially drooling!
Those motors are TIGHT!
TEAM BROOD for the WIN "thumbsup"
-
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Krawl's "SECRET AGENT" turned "DOUBLE AGENT"
- Thread starter krawlfreak
- Start date
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Nice cans. :ror:
Looking forward to hearing how the new motors perform, I am sure they will be badass, Team Brood is amazing. "thumbsup"
Nice cans. :ror:
Looking forward to hearing how the new motors perform, I am sure they will be badass, Team Brood is amazing. "thumbsup"
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Thanks for all the compliments.
I wish I had more time on the motors, as I had other stuff I was doing to the endbell to lose more weight, but time, design goof on my part on the other timing ring, and the mailman made those NOT happen on this version....they will be on the nats motors.
A quick note, the lightweight spring posts are not in that pic. I forgot I had them and I installed them after....
Egressor hit the nail head on some stuff....the motor will see a powerband change. I don't think there will be much worry about heavy binds. I am mostly concerned with loss of drag brake really. 4 magnets already have a weaker drag brake, so losing more steel will effect it some. I don't think it will be as bad though.
Notes on the mods
Ground, Polished, and Dyed stacks - This is done to make the airgap gap precise, so there is little worry of getting a notchy feel from an imperfection in the laminations, which happens since they are stamped.
Lathed Can - Purely a weight saver, but sure does look pimp! It's going to add RPM and Power, but as noted we expect some torque and drag brake loss.
Timing Rings - This is an older idea I learned from Oscar Jansen at Cleveland in 2004. He showed me how an Aluminum timing ring can add RPM with basically no torque loss really. I went home and had a local make me timing rings out of all sorts of materials. Brass, Bronze, Aluminum, Titanium, SS, and Carbon Fiber. Most were lost over the years, but I luckily found the Aluminum ones while making the new Carbon ones. Good thing, as the Carbon Fiber proved to be a challenge with the other mods I was trying to do! We are using the Aluminum to save weight, even though the ones in Jermeys motor are twice the thickness as a stock one, they weigh half!
Lightweight Spring Posts - No change in motor performance, purely weight...about a gram per pair savings.
I will be offering many of these features as options on current motors......how soon depends on parts suppliers. The only ones for sure at this point is the can turn down and polished arms, as I have a local machinist willing to do the cans and I do the arms here. I am still working on some details for it though.
The timing rings, spring posts, and other lightening methods (some of which did not make it on this motor) are ALL in the works, really just figuring out suppliers.
While the can mod looks like something you can do at home with a lathe, you better have a zapper available or you won't be pleased with the results....better know the tricks to cleaning out the motor too
A ton of work went into these besides all the mods and such. I was very anal about the assembly, using stuff I have not done on a motor since the racing days. Probably overkill, but I figured what the heck......pulled a couple of late nights to get them all done.
I've already got a LOT of PMs and emails about a set of these motors. I can't fully replicate them at this time, as some parts were the ONLY ones I had....the cost on this pair of motors would be nuts too. Figure Jermeys old motors were these minus all the mods and lightweight parts.....they were about $265 a set. These will easily be over the $300 mark!
I leave you with some other pretty photos.
The unused carbon timing ring.
The initial batch of cans done on the lathe (yes, 8 KR cans, 2 TI, 2 Cobalt, 2 Checkpoint, and 2 Trinity)
Later EddieO
Thanks for all the compliments.
I wish I had more time on the motors, as I had other stuff I was doing to the endbell to lose more weight, but time, design goof on my part on the other timing ring, and the mailman made those NOT happen on this version....they will be on the nats motors.
A quick note, the lightweight spring posts are not in that pic. I forgot I had them and I installed them after....
Egressor hit the nail head on some stuff....the motor will see a powerband change. I don't think there will be much worry about heavy binds. I am mostly concerned with loss of drag brake really. 4 magnets already have a weaker drag brake, so losing more steel will effect it some. I don't think it will be as bad though.
Notes on the mods
Ground, Polished, and Dyed stacks - This is done to make the airgap gap precise, so there is little worry of getting a notchy feel from an imperfection in the laminations, which happens since they are stamped.
Lathed Can - Purely a weight saver, but sure does look pimp! It's going to add RPM and Power, but as noted we expect some torque and drag brake loss.
Timing Rings - This is an older idea I learned from Oscar Jansen at Cleveland in 2004. He showed me how an Aluminum timing ring can add RPM with basically no torque loss really. I went home and had a local make me timing rings out of all sorts of materials. Brass, Bronze, Aluminum, Titanium, SS, and Carbon Fiber. Most were lost over the years, but I luckily found the Aluminum ones while making the new Carbon ones. Good thing, as the Carbon Fiber proved to be a challenge with the other mods I was trying to do! We are using the Aluminum to save weight, even though the ones in Jermeys motor are twice the thickness as a stock one, they weigh half!
Lightweight Spring Posts - No change in motor performance, purely weight...about a gram per pair savings.
I will be offering many of these features as options on current motors......how soon depends on parts suppliers. The only ones for sure at this point is the can turn down and polished arms, as I have a local machinist willing to do the cans and I do the arms here. I am still working on some details for it though.
The timing rings, spring posts, and other lightening methods (some of which did not make it on this motor) are ALL in the works, really just figuring out suppliers.
While the can mod looks like something you can do at home with a lathe, you better have a zapper available or you won't be pleased with the results....better know the tricks to cleaning out the motor too
A ton of work went into these besides all the mods and such. I was very anal about the assembly, using stuff I have not done on a motor since the racing days. Probably overkill, but I figured what the heck......pulled a couple of late nights to get them all done.
I've already got a LOT of PMs and emails about a set of these motors. I can't fully replicate them at this time, as some parts were the ONLY ones I had....the cost on this pair of motors would be nuts too. Figure Jermeys old motors were these minus all the mods and lightweight parts.....they were about $265 a set. These will easily be over the $300 mark!
I leave you with some other pretty photos.
The unused carbon timing ring.
The initial batch of cans done on the lathe (yes, 8 KR cans, 2 TI, 2 Cobalt, 2 Checkpoint, and 2 Trinity)
Later EddieO
DickyT
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Those are hot Eddie :twisted:
This is one hell of a rig you are throwing together here Jeremy!
Those are hot Eddie :twisted:
This is one hell of a rig you are throwing together here Jeremy!
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Missing an e-clip :ror:
Torque sleeve help the magnet field with out adding to much weight back?
Those pics are definately motor porn ....... "thumbsup"
Missing an e-clip :ror:
Torque sleeve help the magnet field with out adding to much weight back?
Those pics are definately motor porn ....... "thumbsup"
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
i am gonna go through the assembly instructions for all to reference once their new secret agent arrives"thumbsup"
packaging
the ingredience
first you will need to get the (2) 1.5" delrin spreaders and (4) 1/2" aluminum spacers.
next you will need a cab side, a front extender and a rear extender.
you will need the 25mm screws from the 1.5" spacers. they will go through the cab side (body panel too if you are final assembling the chassis) and through a 1/2" aluminum spacer and the respective extenders. you should have this.
repeat for other side and set aside.....
next you will need the 4 16mm screws, skidplate assembly and the two lower chassis sides. pretty straight forward assembly here. it should look like this.
now it is time to mate the cab assembly with the lower sub assembly using the 1.5" delrin spreaders between the lower chassis plates.
****do not tighten completly at this time*****
should look like this.
now to grab the (2) 1 5/8" spreaders and the (2) 5/16 aluminum spacers.
we will start with the rear, you will need the delrin spreader with the 16mm screws and the 5/16" aluminum spacers
assembly should look like this, again*****do not tighten****
repeat for the other side.
next use the other 1 5/8" delrin spreader with the 12mm screws for the front.
this spreader must go in this position!
the shock mount locations are doubled and require a bolt and nut through the shock to tighten down and make the complete structure.
***there needs to be (3) clamping positions on each front and rear doubler***
next you will need the (2) 2 1/4" delrin spreaders for the roof. install ****again do not tighten****
now you will have an almost assembled chassis. before you tighten everything you will need to get your upper links in position. the spacing is there for two revo balls. this allows you to run a narrow or wide upper link trianglation by simply swapping the position of the "spacer" ball.
once you have the upper links in position you can start tightening the chassis bolts from bottom to top.
the chassis will be under compression when it is fully tightened down....don't worry. this makes it the most rigid it will ever be.
example.
rear fully tightened.
time for the body panels.
the spacers included are gonna put you a fraction under the legal width limit. there are several ways around this. one is to simply add a small delrin washer from any axial shock kit to flare the panel out slightly to reach the minimum limit.
now most people using this chassis are not gonna use the aluminum hardware that is provided, and that is the reason for this. like i have said previously this is a top level competition chassis for the "builders".
the lighter aluminum choice would be using the aluminum revo balls, and the lightest would be to use the plastic spacers from the axial shock kits.
in the end there are several different ways to space the chassis so it is up to the end user to make sure their truck is leagal!
the hood panel
the hood will need to be bent slightly to conform to the front spreader . you will notice the flare out to protect the c/f.
the bend will be right at this flare.
the panel can be easily bent on any semi sharp serface with a little pressure from your palm....i used a servo to demonstrate.
now the roof panel is huge!!
it was done like this so the end user can cut it to there specific cab spacing. obviously the smaller it gets the better, but it is up to you.
i prefere the smallest section possible, like this
but it is your call.
final measurements
width, **this can easily be manipulated**
height.
notice the majority of the skid plate will need to remain. i have found with the lighter setups esspecially, the full skid is benefit in breakovers due to the "suck down " the truck has.
i will have the skin templates to the custom skin vendors here shortly. good luck"thumbsup"
i am gonna go through the assembly instructions for all to reference once their new secret agent arrives"thumbsup"
packaging
the ingredience
first you will need to get the (2) 1.5" delrin spreaders and (4) 1/2" aluminum spacers.
next you will need a cab side, a front extender and a rear extender.
you will need the 25mm screws from the 1.5" spacers. they will go through the cab side (body panel too if you are final assembling the chassis) and through a 1/2" aluminum spacer and the respective extenders. you should have this.
repeat for other side and set aside.....
next you will need the 4 16mm screws, skidplate assembly and the two lower chassis sides. pretty straight forward assembly here. it should look like this.
now it is time to mate the cab assembly with the lower sub assembly using the 1.5" delrin spreaders between the lower chassis plates.
****do not tighten completly at this time*****
should look like this.
now to grab the (2) 1 5/8" spreaders and the (2) 5/16 aluminum spacers.
we will start with the rear, you will need the delrin spreader with the 16mm screws and the 5/16" aluminum spacers
assembly should look like this, again*****do not tighten****
repeat for the other side.
next use the other 1 5/8" delrin spreader with the 12mm screws for the front.
this spreader must go in this position!
the shock mount locations are doubled and require a bolt and nut through the shock to tighten down and make the complete structure.
***there needs to be (3) clamping positions on each front and rear doubler***
next you will need the (2) 2 1/4" delrin spreaders for the roof. install ****again do not tighten****
now you will have an almost assembled chassis. before you tighten everything you will need to get your upper links in position. the spacing is there for two revo balls. this allows you to run a narrow or wide upper link trianglation by simply swapping the position of the "spacer" ball.
once you have the upper links in position you can start tightening the chassis bolts from bottom to top.
the chassis will be under compression when it is fully tightened down....don't worry. this makes it the most rigid it will ever be.
example.
rear fully tightened.
time for the body panels.
the spacers included are gonna put you a fraction under the legal width limit. there are several ways around this. one is to simply add a small delrin washer from any axial shock kit to flare the panel out slightly to reach the minimum limit.
now most people using this chassis are not gonna use the aluminum hardware that is provided, and that is the reason for this. like i have said previously this is a top level competition chassis for the "builders".
the lighter aluminum choice would be using the aluminum revo balls, and the lightest would be to use the plastic spacers from the axial shock kits.
in the end there are several different ways to space the chassis so it is up to the end user to make sure their truck is leagal!
the hood panel
the hood will need to be bent slightly to conform to the front spreader . you will notice the flare out to protect the c/f.
the bend will be right at this flare.
the panel can be easily bent on any semi sharp serface with a little pressure from your palm....i used a servo to demonstrate.
now the roof panel is huge!!
it was done like this so the end user can cut it to there specific cab spacing. obviously the smaller it gets the better, but it is up to you.
i prefere the smallest section possible, like this
but it is your call.
final measurements
width, **this can easily be manipulated**
height.
notice the majority of the skid plate will need to remain. i have found with the lighter setups esspecially, the full skid is benefit in breakovers due to the "suck down " the truck has.
i will have the skin templates to the custom skin vendors here shortly. good luck"thumbsup"
meffie
RCC Addict
Now that's how you do a write up, lol
losiking1
Rock Crawler
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Agreed!!! Not afraid to share any and all info. When i stop procrastinating Jeremy's chassis will be next."thumbsup""thumbsup"
Agreed!!! Not afraid to share any and all info. When i stop procrastinating Jeremy's chassis will be next."thumbsup""thumbsup"
Illeagle
RCC Addict
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Jeremy whats the main reason you are using front and rear extenders other than to meet legal limit? If you were to just cut the main side plates a bit longer could you eliminate all the extra weight of the 4 extenders or are there other benefits?
Jeremy whats the main reason you are using front and rear extenders other than to meet legal limit? If you were to just cut the main side plates a bit longer could you eliminate all the extra weight of the 4 extenders or are there other benefits?
Last edited:
The Violator
RCC Addict
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
My guess is for a doubler. 2 pieces bolted together in this instance add much more strength than they do weight. Otherwise the main assembly would need to be made from thicker material to carry the same load as 2 thinner parts. Also it allows main side plates to be used as bodied car, add doublers and its bodiless.
In the end more parts look cool, and makes it harder for the xerox crew to say they fell into a design by accident.
My guess is for a doubler. 2 pieces bolted together in this instance add much more strength than they do weight. Otherwise the main assembly would need to be made from thicker material to carry the same load as 2 thinner parts. Also it allows main side plates to be used as bodied car, add doublers and its bodiless.
In the end more parts look cool, and makes it harder for the xerox crew to say they fell into a design by accident.
Last edited:
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
They actually double the the shock mounting location to 1/8" and they make the chassis more rigid in the shock mounting area. The issue with making a really narrow chassis with a shorter skid is the flex that happens on the outer most sections. Couple that with the fact that a 3.5 shock seems to like to be stood up and spaced out farther than the 4" shock, and now you have even more leverage being put on typically the weakest part of the chassis. Essentially the doublers allow the added rigidity of added hardware and brace at the shocks at a fraction of the weight.
The weight compared to the added strength is a no brainer in my mind.
The doublers also account for some of the spacing to meet width requirements.
What you end up with is an extremely light and rigid chassis.
They actually double the the shock mounting location to 1/8" and they make the chassis more rigid in the shock mounting area. The issue with making a really narrow chassis with a shorter skid is the flex that happens on the outer most sections. Couple that with the fact that a 3.5 shock seems to like to be stood up and spaced out farther than the 4" shock, and now you have even more leverage being put on typically the weakest part of the chassis. Essentially the doublers allow the added rigidity of added hardware and brace at the shocks at a fraction of the weight.
The weight compared to the added strength is a no brainer in my mind.
The doublers also account for some of the spacing to meet width requirements.
What you end up with is an extremely light and rigid chassis.
Last edited:
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
thanks jeremy for the quik response on the chassis and the info for the build,that will make everything run real smooth, can't wait to get it, i'll keep you posted on the build"thumbsup"
thanks again Jerry
thanks jeremy for the quik response on the chassis and the info for the build,that will make everything run real smooth, can't wait to get it, i'll keep you posted on the build"thumbsup"
thanks again Jerry
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
No problem jerry.
In case everyone that purchased the secret agent 3.5 chassis hasn't seen the secret agent for sale thread...
The original ship date was scheduled to start This friday.....
I would like to say that all preorders have been filled and shipped today ahead of schedule!
No problem jerry.
In case everyone that purchased the secret agent 3.5 chassis hasn't seen the secret agent for sale thread...
The original ship date was scheduled to start This friday.....
I would like to say that all preorders have been filled and shipped today ahead of schedule!
ROWDY RACING
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Nice job on the setup directions! "thumbsup"
Where are you running your upper links, right against the chassis or in the spaced out position, I see it's adjustable, nice touch.
Nice job on the setup directions! "thumbsup"
Where are you running your upper links, right against the chassis or in the spaced out position, I see it's adjustable, nice touch.
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Uppers front and rear 1 hole up from the bottom and both on the outside position for more trianglation.
Uppers front and rear 1 hole up from the bottom and both on the outside position for more trianglation.
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Excellent idea on the upper link balls."thumbsup" We did a similar thing on the lowers with a 3mm spacer. It's a nice adjustment to have, probably not used much but the option is there. Any plans on doing a Berg version?
Excellent idea on the upper link balls."thumbsup" We did a similar thing on the lowers with a 3mm spacer. It's a nice adjustment to have, probably not used much but the option is there. Any plans on doing a Berg version?
Last edited:
krawlfreak
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
Thanks rob.
Not sure about a berg version?
I believe a berg axle can be used on this.chassis very easily.
I know of a guy that is getting his today to put it on a set of bergs. I will get steady feedback from him on it.
Thanks rob.
Not sure about a berg version?
I believe a berg axle can be used on this.chassis very easily.
I know of a guy that is getting his today to put it on a set of bergs. I will get steady feedback from him on it.
Erin
I wanna be Dave
Re: Krawl's "SECRET AGENT"
OOh, I'm sure you will....
OOh, I'm sure you will....