That goes for both Democrats AND Republicans. I sit back and listen to both sides with disgust because this is all I hear.
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I cant believe this...
- Thread starter JeremyH
- Start date
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Well, I read through this conversation and I have a few things to say.
First, I'm sorry that you had to deal with this. I bet that it makes for interesting times around the Thanksgiving table.
Second, most people dont actually understand how medical insurance works. They dont know that the American Government is actually the entity that drives up the prices for EVERYONE. The hospitals/medical professionals and Medicare currently both do a dance to get what they want. Medicare only reimburses 1/3 of what is billed. To counteract that, hospitals and medical professionals bill 3 times what they wish to collect. Everyone is happy, right? Wrong. When a "for cash" patient comes along, Medicare REQUIRES that they are billed the same as a Medicare patient....even though Medicare only plans to pay out 1/3 of that amount.
Does the Media or our government report any of this info? Nope.
I deal with crap like this on a daily basis.
30percent
Quarry Creeper
Ahhh! The science behind politics!!! I see a lot of posts that show the divided mind set. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o
></o>
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No matter who is in Office, the other side will argue the plan or bill. Give all the reasons in the world it's in the end of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region>. It's who ever is in office at the time fault... Weather or not a plan will actually help change the current problem, we (the people) will always be torn apart by the belief it will or won't work., driven by media. Most the people here are not in economics or politics. Whatever we heard on the radio or news is what we believe to be true. Where else do you get your political data? Either from one left wing source or the other right wing... they both make crap up. :twisted:
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Unfortunately, the system is created to divide us. Left and Right, Conservative/Liberal... Based on your beliefs, you divide from those people that have different beliefs. Why? Because if their belief is right, then yours is not. SO fight till the end to prove yours is right and eliminate anyone that believes otherwise. SAD! This doesn't solve the problem, it keeps one side in control and the other bitching about it. Stonewalling bills and projects that could actually help us.
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Bottom line, I’m not taking sides. It comes down to our current system and math. It IS failing. Social Security, Education, Health... If something isn't done now, we will not receive the SS money for retirement that they take from our checks. If we don't change health care, they Will spend over $2 trillion over 10 years caring for illegal’s. Under a new plan, $1.2 trillion over 10 years... Compared to $10 Trillion on HLS and War, What is the big deal?
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Listen to what the opposition is saying... $1.2 Trillion of health care is the end of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region> over the next 10 years, but $10 Trillion spent on WAR and Killing people is no big deal? That's 10 times the amount they plan to spend on helping people and curing sickness, but it's ok because you’re "Safe from terrorist" now. :roll:
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Again, I'm not taking sides or calling out anyone that obviously is too blinded by left/right to sit down and come up with solutions. It's easier to complain about the people trying to solve the problem then do something about it yourself.
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Lastly, I thought Bush was the historically identified figure referred to as the “village idiot” but I still gave him the respect he deserved as the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">US</st1lace></st1:country-region> President. It’s ok to disagree with your president, but what does it do to OUR image as Americans or how does it help to blatantly disrespect our #1 representative? <o></o>
<o></o>
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>No matter who is in Office, the other side will argue the plan or bill. Give all the reasons in the world it's in the end of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region>. It's who ever is in office at the time fault... Weather or not a plan will actually help change the current problem, we (the people) will always be torn apart by the belief it will or won't work., driven by media. Most the people here are not in economics or politics. Whatever we heard on the radio or news is what we believe to be true. Where else do you get your political data? Either from one left wing source or the other right wing... they both make crap up. :twisted:<o
></o> <o
></o>Unfortunately, the system is created to divide us. Left and Right, Conservative/Liberal... Based on your beliefs, you divide from those people that have different beliefs. Why? Because if their belief is right, then yours is not. SO fight till the end to prove yours is right and eliminate anyone that believes otherwise. SAD! This doesn't solve the problem, it keeps one side in control and the other bitching about it. Stonewalling bills and projects that could actually help us.
<o
></o> <o
></o>Bottom line, I’m not taking sides. It comes down to our current system and math. It IS failing. Social Security, Education, Health... If something isn't done now, we will not receive the SS money for retirement that they take from our checks. If we don't change health care, they Will spend over $2 trillion over 10 years caring for illegal’s. Under a new plan, $1.2 trillion over 10 years... Compared to $10 Trillion on HLS and War, What is the big deal?
<o
></o> <o
></o>Listen to what the opposition is saying... $1.2 Trillion of health care is the end of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1
lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region> over the next 10 years, but $10 Trillion spent on WAR and Killing people is no big deal? That's 10 times the amount they plan to spend on helping people and curing sickness, but it's ok because you’re "Safe from terrorist" now. :roll:<o
></o> <o
></o>Again, I'm not taking sides or calling out anyone that obviously is too blinded by left/right to sit down and come up with solutions. It's easier to complain about the people trying to solve the problem then do something about it yourself.
<o
></o> <o
></o>Lastly, I thought Bush was the historically identified figure referred to as the “village idiot” but I still gave him the respect he deserved as the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1
lace w:st="on">US</st1lace></st1:country-region> President. It’s ok to disagree with your president, but what does it do to OUR image as Americans or how does it help to blatantly disrespect our #1 representative? <o></o><o
></o>Ahhh! The science behind politics!!! I see a lot of posts that show the divided mind set. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
<o
No matter who is in Office, the other side will argue the plan or bill. Give all the reasons in the world it's in the end of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
<o
<o
Unfortunately, the system is created to divide us. Left and Right, Conservative/Liberal... Based on your beliefs, you divide from those people that have different beliefs. Why? Because if their belief is right, then yours is not. SO fight till the end to prove yours is right and eliminate anyone that believes otherwise. SAD! This doesn't solve the problem, it keeps one side in control and the other bitching about it. Stonewalling bills and projects that could actually help us.
<o
<o
Bottom line, I’m not taking sides. It comes down to our current system and math. It IS failing. Social Security, Education, Health... If something isn't done now, we will not receive the SS money for retirement that they take from our checks. If we don't change health care, they Will spend over $2 trillion over 10 years caring for illegal’s. Under a new plan, $1.2 trillion over 10 years... Compared to $10 Trillion on HLS and War, What is the big deal?
<o
<o
Listen to what the opposition is saying... $1.2 Trillion of health care is the end of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1
<o
<o
Again, I'm not taking sides or calling out anyone that obviously is too blinded by left/right to sit down and come up with solutions. It's easier to complain about the people trying to solve the problem then do something about it yourself.
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<o
Lastly, I thought Bush was the historically identified figure referred to as the “village idiot” but I still gave him the respect he deserved as the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1
<o
Well said, sir. One of the few posts on this or any other political topic that I do agree with. "thumbsup"
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
What does it do to OUR image as Americans when our #1 representative travels to other countries and disrespects us??but what does it do to OUR image as Americans or how does it help to blatantly disrespect our #1 representative? <o
<o
caymin last
Rock Crawler
Most people recognize the need for reducing medical costs ect. and so on, but this bill has so many flaws, and obvious problems. The weak and unstable economy for one, has the potential to become a major catstrophe, with the burden of new taxes on families, already living paycheck to paycheck, with very tight budgets.
According to articles in the 'New England Journal of Medicine', future demand and even current capacity of the healthcare workforce is a still unresolved issue, for the most part.
Published in the NEJM, a survey of Physicians, concludes that nearly one third, would consider leaving the medical profession, or retiring early.
The survey, which was conducted by the Medicus Firm, a leading physician search and consulting firm based in Atlanta and Dallas, found that a majority of physicians said health-care reform would cause the quality of American medical care to “deteriorate” and it could be the “final straw” that sends a sizeable number of doctors out of medicine.
According to articles in the 'New England Journal of Medicine', future demand and even current capacity of the healthcare workforce is a still unresolved issue, for the most part.
Published in the NEJM, a survey of Physicians, concludes that nearly one third, would consider leaving the medical profession, or retiring early.
The survey, which was conducted by the Medicus Firm, a leading physician search and consulting firm based in Atlanta and Dallas, found that a majority of physicians said health-care reform would cause the quality of American medical care to “deteriorate” and it could be the “final straw” that sends a sizeable number of doctors out of medicine.
30percent
Quarry Creeper
I'm not sure on what you are referring. Has Obama done something directly to disrespect us in foreign relations? Was it intentional or misconstrued to make it more than it was? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>It's our right and duty as Americans to call out things in our government that aren't working or treating people unfairly... If you feel your being miss- represented, write your congress and senate. They DO listen. You would be surprised how seriously they take your concerns. Every time I write, I get a response, and gratitude for taking the time to respectfully articulate my thoughts or ideas to them. (Multiple times). They may not agree with me, but they listen and consider it when making choices. Especially when you’re the only person in your state to write a letter on the topic. There's not alot of other opinions for them to consider. If I sent them photo's of Anti-President remakes and "get a rope" comments, they wouldn't think twice before tossing it in the trash and forgetting all about it.<o
></o><o
></o>These 3 sentences written to a congress or senate has more power than all the anti-solution remarks and pictures here.<o
></o><o
></o>" Dear Sir, I'm concerned our country is headed in the wrong direction with the new health care bill. Although I do believe something needs to be done, there's too much risk in this proposal. Please, consider my children’s future when making a decision on this very important matter. Respectfully, John Dow... "<o
></o><o
> </o>Even though this isn’t my belief, I can convey the message much more professionally to someone that can do something about it. It’s sad to see all the frustration within people, and the only way they can get it out is making a bumper sticker or poster… Try using ½ the energy and write your congress…<o
></o>PS I veiw it like this because I drove passed a bar on the way to a city concil meeting, noticed a full parking lot and 3 anti-obama stickers, only to get to the city building Empty public parking lot... 0 Stickers... they seem to be meeting at the worng location...
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The outcome from last night kinda proves they really do not.
I agree the problem lies not just with one party or the other.
You are correct but do not forget to include the health insurance companies in there as well. They operate much the same way.
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JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Before the Senate voted on this bill, I wrote them both from my state...and both responded agreeing with my opinions. I am not just a Monday morning quarterback....I make my opinions know to my elected officials when I feel it is necessary.
Actually, they will sometimes pay more than Medicare, but in general they just follow suit. What Medicare pays is the standard. Much of the work that I do everyday is because a bureaucrat has decided what is best for our patients. They have lawmakers deciding the rules of this game....and that is wrong.
I work with about 20 doctors on a daily basis (age ranging from about 35 to 65) and none of them are considering retirement anytime soon.
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caymin last
Rock Crawler
I think a lot of people are either living in fantasy, or perhaps they are just niave. The fact is, 99.9% of the letters you write to your Rep. or Congressman are never seen or read by them, they have aids and assistants who do all of that, they sign hundreds of documents, reply letters and e-mails without knowing much, if anything about them, unless they are of critical importance, to speak to one on the phone in person is almost impossible.
Greed, corruption, power and self interest are the only factors that motivate almost all politicians today, if you don't believe or understand that, then you live in total denial.
Very few, if any of these people, will listen to/do anything for any one person or group, that does not carry some financial or political benefit for them personally.
None of the people in government who crafted or voted on this healthcare bill will be subjected to any of it's mandates, for them the status quo remains intact.
As more and more facts and details in this bill, become available to be analyzed, explained and properly understood, only then will it become clear that it's main focus is total power and control. Student loans, electronic access to personal bank accounts, and a host of other non medical issues are included in this overwhelming piece of legislation, all for the purpose of lowering health care costs, to believe this is not about reducing personal freedom and choice is a little niave to say the least.
Greed, corruption, power and self interest are the only factors that motivate almost all politicians today, if you don't believe or understand that, then you live in total denial.
Very few, if any of these people, will listen to/do anything for any one person or group, that does not carry some financial or political benefit for them personally.
None of the people in government who crafted or voted on this healthcare bill will be subjected to any of it's mandates, for them the status quo remains intact.
As more and more facts and details in this bill, become available to be analyzed, explained and properly understood, only then will it become clear that it's main focus is total power and control. Student loans, electronic access to personal bank accounts, and a host of other non medical issues are included in this overwhelming piece of legislation, all for the purpose of lowering health care costs, to believe this is not about reducing personal freedom and choice is a little niave to say the least.
rock hard
dnf
my pop [70] is on s.s. and its not enough. he gets 1,200 a month in s.s.
his out of pocket for his prescriptions are usually around 2,000 for
3 months supply. plus when he hits the GAP his out of pocket for his precriptions is higher.
everything the gov. gets their hands of turns to crap. thats just a fact
its cost more and provides less than they promise
what has been done is just wrong.
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JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
No fantasy here...I knew that the response that I got was a common response that is sent out to many people. However, at the time, one of my Senators was in an election for Governor of our state. She knew that if she wanted (actually, she didn't win the bid) people to vote for her, then she'd better listen to them. The other guy....well, that's a different story.
30percent
Quarry Creeper
I apologize if it sounded like I thought you weren't filling your duty or just have opinions. I do understand this bill, how it's being passed, and the outcome has unpredictable outcomes. It's scary and people have the right to say what they don't like..<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>This topic reminds me of this study about sinking ships, how people stay on it till the very last second. Because the known is always easier to accept than the unknown. Even if the known has a terrible outcome, it's better than getting on a life raft and not knowing what’s next...<o
></o><o
></o>I don't know about you, but this country was sinking way before Obama and his admin... taking the life raft right now maybe the smartest thing we do, but we just can't see it yet...<o
></o>
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JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Well, IMO, there are better ways to go about helping those in need than the current proposed method. There is way too much "piggybacking" and hands in pockets with this bill.taking the life raft right now maybe the smartest thing we do, but we just can't see it yet...<o
I dont understand why the government needs control of this industry. What they should do is simply help out those who need it.
For example, when a person fills out his W2 (that's right....those that have jobs get the help), he could select the "government option" for health insurance coverage. Now, if you know anything about negotiating health insurance contracts, you'd be very familiar with the fact that an employer of a large company is going to get a better deal per person from these insurance providers than an employer of a small company. Now, what kind of deal could the government (or an affiliate) negotiate if they brought 1 million customers to the table? I'd guess, a helluva deal. After the deal is made, the individual would be responsible for the cost (much lower than if the individual negotiated the contract himself.....which is the major complaint of most uninsured). All of this happens at NO extra cost to the taxpayers.
Now, if I can see a solution as simple as this, then why cant a professional politician?!?!
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Boogie
Quarry Creeper
To where?
30percent
Quarry Creeper
It's never as simple as how we see it... but you make a valid point. "thumbsup"
Although, if you listen to the other wing they say it's more privatization not government control. So who is right, who is lying?
fficeffice" /><o></o>The answer can only be Both, depending on which side of the Arc you are standing...
That's kinda my point. I don't really see the Bill as a solution, I'm not preaching Pro-Obama. It's just getting off a sinking system. Congress still has to work out the terms of the bill and that's what seems impossible. Working them out and waiting for the bill could take to long. That's why I think the bill was pushed in the way it was, now it's on Congress to work it out, they have too! No more beating the dead horse.
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
From my side it's Neither...
BTW, I know that my solution would come with complexities and people complaining...."who would get the contract??"...."how well did my negotiator do his job this year??"....plenty of uncertainties, however, one major positive is that mine is not a "Robin Hood Plan" like the current "solution". I don't think that one group of people should pay for the insurance of another.
30percent
Quarry Creeper
Neither Won't get the Bridge built... they will continue to argue over the Arc and never get the job done. That's the impasse the Congress is at. Regardless how you see it, It's still an Arc.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>WE already pay for the uninsured, Medi-care. Health Insurance for people that can't afford it, including illegal immigrants. Provided by the State, Paid for by Our taxes... How is that ok?<o
></o><o
></o>You said you realize how your plan would be complex, so you should realize how complex it would be to convince everyone it will work. You would be dealing with the same scrutiny Obama is. Being called the anti Christ and so on... 50% of the field would be pinpointing every hole, down fall, and back lash as if it were the end of America..
(Please don't think I'm arguing with ya, I like level headed discussions )<o
></o>:ror:
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caymin last
Rock Crawler
Well, I guess we can all agree, that this subject has many, contentious issues and concerns still to be answered. Keeping an open mind at all times, can be very difficult when discussing such a controversial subject. It is only natural for some to see a glass as half full, while others see it as half empty.
One of the many important questions that bothers me, is the mandatory participation, with strict penalties on those who refuse. I've heard people argue that it's like having mandatory drivers insurance, and some who believe that without this provision the entire idea would be useless.
One of the many important questions that bothers me, is the mandatory participation, with strict penalties on those who refuse. I've heard people argue that it's like having mandatory drivers insurance, and some who believe that without this provision the entire idea would be useless.
Eritex Inc.
RCC Addict
I believe the biggest divide as of late is between those who believe the Government should be the one giving rights to the American people and those of us that believe our rights are given to us by a higher power. Any government is inherently flawed due to the fact it is ran by man. Mankind is gentle, patient, and giving but man is power hungry, greedy, and will stop at nothing to further benefit themselves as individuals. The founders knew this and set forth a Constitution and a Bill of Rights not only to protect and list the rights given to the citizens of The United States of America by a higher power, but more importantly to put limits on government and the evils that power brings out in man.
I am a strict Constitutionalist, http://www.constitution.org/pol/us/consplat.htm and because of this belief I find what is being done both by Republicans and Democrats to be offensive at best and treasonous at worst. It is a shame to me that so many find comfort in being slaves to a government in return for broken promises and false hope. This country was founded on basic principles and a belief in free will, the power of the individual, and hard work. Those are qualities that are lost when you are forced to suckle at the tit of a government to receive what is rightfully yours as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
The health care issue comes down to control. If the government is paying for (with our money collected from us in the form of tax dollars) our health care, then it is only a small step to where the government can tell you what you can and cannot eat, who is "needed" in society and there for more deserving of medical treatment, and which group or class is less viable and "allowed" to be moved aside in order to make room for a more productive member of society. Another aspect of this is the "Social Justice" angle which actually means the Socialistic redistribution of wealth by the government. The all powerful government will decide when someone has had or has acquired enough _____, and cut off any further _____. To take that a step further, the government could seize property or wealth from you and give it to someone or group they find more deserving.
On my bedside table I have a copy of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights in book form and The Art of War. When reading these and combining them with what you see done every day by Washington, you see why most are disillusioned with the government.
In the end, all I want is the government to get out of the American people's way and to stop trying to "engineer" a better society. Let mankind experience all the freedoms and liberties along with the pains and trials that what ever you see as a higher power bestowed on us at our creation.
Alright, back to playing with toy trucks:lmao:
I am a strict Constitutionalist, http://www.constitution.org/pol/us/consplat.htm and because of this belief I find what is being done both by Republicans and Democrats to be offensive at best and treasonous at worst. It is a shame to me that so many find comfort in being slaves to a government in return for broken promises and false hope. This country was founded on basic principles and a belief in free will, the power of the individual, and hard work. Those are qualities that are lost when you are forced to suckle at the tit of a government to receive what is rightfully yours as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
The health care issue comes down to control. If the government is paying for (with our money collected from us in the form of tax dollars) our health care, then it is only a small step to where the government can tell you what you can and cannot eat, who is "needed" in society and there for more deserving of medical treatment, and which group or class is less viable and "allowed" to be moved aside in order to make room for a more productive member of society. Another aspect of this is the "Social Justice" angle which actually means the Socialistic redistribution of wealth by the government. The all powerful government will decide when someone has had or has acquired enough _____, and cut off any further _____. To take that a step further, the government could seize property or wealth from you and give it to someone or group they find more deserving.
On my bedside table I have a copy of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights in book form and The Art of War. When reading these and combining them with what you see done every day by Washington, you see why most are disillusioned with the government.
In the end, all I want is the government to get out of the American people's way and to stop trying to "engineer" a better society. Let mankind experience all the freedoms and liberties along with the pains and trials that what ever you see as a higher power bestowed on us at our creation.
Alright, back to playing with toy trucks:lmao:
