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I cant believe this...

WE already pay for the uninsured, Medi-care. Health Insurance for people that can't afford it, including illegal immigrants. Provided by the State, Paid for by Our taxes... How is that ok?<o:p></o:p>
I think you are confusing Medicare and Medicaid. There is a difference. Medicare is not a program that provides insurance to the uninsured....it is a program that provides 80% coverage (the individual must either pay the remaining 20% or purchase supplemental coverage) for the elderly (those who generally can not earn a living).

Now dont get me wrong, I dont have a problem helping those who need the help (I would, however, prefer not to be forced to do so), but I DO have a problem helping able bodied individuals who are simply too lazy to get a good job or work hard for a living. I am a well educated individual who came from a meager background and has worked hard all of his life...and I believe others should do the same.
 
I believe the biggest divide as of late is between those who believe the Government should be the one giving rights to the American people and those of us that believe our rights are given to us by a higher power. Any government is inherently flawed due to the fact it is ran by man. Mankind is gentle, patient, and giving but man is power hungry, greedy, and will stop at nothing to further benefit themselves as individuals. The founders knew this and set forth a Constitution and a Bill of Rights not only to protect and list the rights given to the citizens of The United States of America by a higher power, but more importantly to put limits on government and the evils that power brings out in man.

I am a strict Constitutionalist, http://www.constitution.org/pol/us/consplat.htm and because of this belief I find what is being done both by Republicans and Democrats to be offensive at best and treasonous at worst. It is a shame to me that so many find comfort in being slaves to a government in return for broken promises and false hope. This country was founded on basic principles and a belief in free will, the power of the individual, and hard work. Those are qualities that are lost when you are forced to suckle at the tit of a government to receive what is rightfully yours as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The health care issue comes down to control. If the government is paying for (with our money collected from us in the form of tax dollars) our health care, then it is only a small step to where the government can tell you what you can and cannot eat, who is "needed" in society and there for more deserving of medical treatment, and which group or class is less viable and "allowed" to be moved aside in order to make room for a more productive member of society. Another aspect of this is the "Social Justice" angle which actually means the Socialistic redistribution of wealth by the government. The all powerful government will decide when someone has had or has acquired enough _____, and cut off any further _____. To take that a step further, the government could seize property or wealth from you and give it to someone or group they find more deserving.

On my bedside table I have a copy of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights in book form and The Art of War. When reading these and combining them with what you see done every day by Washington, you see why most are disillusioned with the government.


In the end, all I want is the government to get out of the American people's way and to stop trying to "engineer" a better society. Let mankind experience all the freedoms and liberties along with the pains and trials that what ever you see as a higher power bestowed on us at our creation.

BRAVO!!!!!!

VERY well said.
 
What is truly aggravating is how whenever that genius Bush tried/did something similar there were protests, angry citizens, etc.
Now when Obama and his power mad cronies do it, they are hailed as heroes and practically deified by the media and the majority of the population.
Thats because he's the first black president he must know something the other ones didn't!!.....................Yea right!!
 
I believe the biggest divide as of late is between those who believe the Government should be the one giving rights to the American people and those of us that believe our rights are given to us by a higher power. Any government is inherently flawed due to the fact it is ran by man. Mankind is gentle, patient, and giving but man is power hungry, greedy, and will stop at nothing to further benefit themselves as individuals. The founders knew this and set forth a Constitution and a Bill of Rights not only to protect and list the rights given to the citizens of The United States of America by a higher power, but more importantly to put limits on government and the evils that power brings out in man.

I am a strict Constitutionalist, http://www.constitution.org/pol/us/consplat.htm and because of this belief I find what is being done both by Republicans and Democrats to be offensive at best and treasonous at worst. It is a shame to me that so many find comfort in being slaves to a government in return for broken promises and false hope. This country was founded on basic principles and a belief in free will, the power of the individual, and hard work. Those are qualities that are lost when you are forced to suckle at the tit of a government to receive what is rightfully yours as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The health care issue comes down to control. If the government is paying for (with our money collected from us in the form of tax dollars) our health care, then it is only a small step to where the government can tell you what you can and cannot eat, who is "needed" in society and there for more deserving of medical treatment, and which group or class is less viable and "allowed" to be moved aside in order to make room for a more productive member of society. Another aspect of this is the "Social Justice" angle which actually means the Socialistic redistribution of wealth by the government. The all powerful government will decide when someone has had or has acquired enough _____, and cut off any further _____. To take that a step further, the government could seize property or wealth from you and give it to someone or group they find more deserving.

On my bedside table I have a copy of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights in book form and The Art of War. When reading these and combining them with what you see done every day by Washington, you see why most are disillusioned with the government.


In the end, all I want is the government to get out of the American people's way and to stop trying to "engineer" a better society. Let mankind experience all the freedoms and liberties along with the pains and trials that what ever you see as a higher power bestowed on us at our creation.

Alright, back to playing with toy trucks:lmao:

Damn! Couldn't have said it better myself! EXACTLY how I feel. "thumbsup"
 
I believe the biggest divide as of late is between those who believe the Government should be the one giving rights to the American people and those of us that believe our rights are given to us by a higher power. Any government is inherently flawed due to the fact it is ran by man. Mankind is gentle, patient, and giving but man is power hungry, greedy, and will stop at nothing to further benefit themselves as individuals. The founders knew this and set forth a Constitution and a Bill of Rights not only to protect and list the rights given to the citizens of The United States of America by a higher power, but more importantly to put limits on government and the evils that power brings out in man.

I am a strict Constitutionalist, http://www.constitution.org/pol/us/consplat.htm and because of this belief I find what is being done both by Republicans and Democrats to be offensive at best and treasonous at worst. It is a shame to me that so many find comfort in being slaves to a government in return for broken promises and false hope. This country was founded on basic principles and a belief in free will, the power of the individual, and hard work. Those are qualities that are lost when you are forced to suckle at the tit of a government to receive what is rightfully yours as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The health care issue comes down to control. If the government is paying for (with our money collected from us in the form of tax dollars) our health care, then it is only a small step to where the government can tell you what you can and cannot eat, who is "needed" in society and there for more deserving of medical treatment, and which group or class is less viable and "allowed" to be moved aside in order to make room for a more productive member of society. Another aspect of this is the "Social Justice" angle which actually means the Socialistic redistribution of wealth by the government. The all powerful government will decide when someone has had or has acquired enough _____, and cut off any further _____. To take that a step further, the government could seize property or wealth from you and give it to someone or group they find more deserving.

On my bedside table I have a copy of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights in book form and The Art of War. When reading these and combining them with what you see done every day by Washington, you see why most are disillusioned with the government.


In the end, all I want is the government to get out of the American people's way and to stop trying to "engineer" a better society. Let mankind experience all the freedoms and liberties along with the pains and trials that what ever you see as a higher power bestowed on us at our creation.

Alright, back to playing with toy trucks:lmao:

"thumbsup""thumbsup"

I bet you screwed up the grading curve in school for everyone else.
 
I believe the biggest divide as of late is between those who believe the Government should be the one giving rights to the American people and those of us that believe our rights are given to us by a higher power. Any government is inherently flawed due to the fact it is ran by man. Mankind is gentle, patient, and giving but man is power hungry, greedy, and will stop at nothing to further benefit themselves as individuals. The founders knew this and set forth a Constitution and a Bill of Rights not only to protect and list the rights given to the citizens of The United States of America by a higher power, but more importantly to put limits on government and the evils that power brings out in man.


Well Said, I only disagree with the idea that The Constitution (Equal Rights among men) and the Bill of Rights (Governing men in Power) were lists of rights sent by a "Higher Power". I'd like to believe they were derived by logical and moral men, creating an equal rights system... Where I believe in a higher power, I don't think he is a politician. :ror: :ror:

 
We have switched from "we allow the government" to "the government allows us".

It's time to stand and fight back. This is what happened in 1776 and can happen again today. The whole thing has me sick. I feel as though I am being molested by a 600 lb gorilla.

And now some TJ quotes, the man was a genius!:

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -- Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. -- Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. -- Thomas Jefferson

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. -- Thomas Jefferson
 
We have switched from "we allow the government" to "the government allows us".

It's time to stand and fight back. This is what happened in 1776 and can happen again today. The whole thing has me sick. I feel as though I am being molested by a 600 lb gorilla.

And now some TJ quotes, the man was a genius!:

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -- Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. -- Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. -- Thomas Jefferson

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. -- Thomas Jefferson
TJ was wise WAY beyond his years!

I too would like to see some kind of revolt/upset of the current political system, I feel waiting until 2010 elections will be too long, once everything is written into law trying to get it reversed it nearly impossible. There in lies the problem, as many people are disgusted and revolted by the last years events there are just as many or more who completely apathetic to it, or worse blindly agree with it, and have no knowledge, of whats in this, or any thing else for that matter. and they would blindly stand behind the status quo and fight to maintain it without ever realizing what they're doing.
 
"thumbsup""thumbsup"

I bet you screwed up the grading curve in school for everyone else.

Nope, in school I was like every other teen since the begin of time...a know it all smart mouth that had to have my dad rick my ass every once and a while to get me back on track.

It has taken being broke, divorced, a drunk for 10 years, a renewed faith in a higher power, and the love of a terrific woman to get me to where I am today.
 
Well Said, I only disagree with the idea that The Constitution (Equal Rights among men) and the Bill of Rights (Governing men in Power) were lists of rights sent by a "Higher Power". I'd like to believe they were derived by logical and moral men, creating an equal rights system... Where I believe in a higher power, I don't think he is a politician. :ror: :ror:

but the founder did believe the 3 unailenable rights are granted to us by our creator.

LIFE,LIBERTY,PURSUIT OF HAPPYNESS.

the rest of the documents are supposed to help us protect these 3 rights.
to govern is easy. to govern without taking rights is a task

thats why all elected goverment represanatives,from the the top down.
"president to city councle" must swear to defend the constitution.
it is far to easy to pass law or ordinance that violates our constitution.

gun laws are a prime example as is the death penalty and felony convictions.

each of these violates the rights protected in our founding documents.
congress shall pass no law to abridge your right to vote.
but felons cant vote. or own guns.

death penalty, LIFE is an unalienable right.

and I doubt our founders intended us to not be allowed to open carry.

now many of you conservatives will agree that the death penalty and felony's are a good thing,but its not.

if its ok to take these rights it is then ok to take others.

you would say its ok for us to take this right away.
the other side will say its ok to take that right away.

and in the end we lose all rights.

never,ever violate the founding documents and all works as intended.
 
So I figured out what I pay in taxes per day and it's $100 per day!!! Yes I'm very fortunate to have a great job, but fawk when it get to the point where I'm paying 50% of my income in taxes I QUIT!!! I'll go live in my camper and smoke pot and let Obama take care of any problems.
 
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.

Patrick Henry
 
That's their goal Joey, they want passive sheep that are dependant on them.

Seems to me that the refreshing of the tree of Liberty w/ the blood of tyrants and Patriots is WAY over due!

I agree, but I be damned if I work my ass off to see ½ my money go to big goverment. I'll go live in the mountians or something. I can't believe he is still breathing, what has this world came to. Americans have became a bunch of pussies and now we want everyone else to take care of us.
 
I agree, but I be damned if I work my ass off to see ½ my money go to big goverment. I'll go live in the mountians or something. I can't believe he is still breathing, what has this world came to. Americans have became a bunch of pussies and now we want everyone else to take care of us.

Not the true Americans, only the LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES!:evil:
 
on todays date in history, was the signing of the bill on todays date random?



Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.


No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
 
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
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hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
 
Americans have became a bunch of pussies and now we want everyone else to take care of us.

Basically turning into Europe.... Have been starting to head that way for decades.
 
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