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Ford's future plans in North America
- Thread starter durok
- Start date
:lmao: Why are you so emotionally vested in FWD? I tell you they suck and you want to tell me I suck? I think it's funny. Are you a ricer at heart?
I drive an FWD car daily. FWDs suck. There's a reason why high level racing series use RWD or sometimes AWD.
Can FWDs be fun? Absolutely. But the best driving performance and experience comes from RWD or AWD depending on the situation.
FWD is a good starting car because it's the most forgiving layout and the easiest to drive without wrecking.
My point exactly - RWD is better than FWD. I have no idea how anybody in their right might can argue that.
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lol. maybe you should say the FF layout has its own spots in certain motorsports, as well as the other options out there.
if I was a closet ricer I clearly would not be on this forum.
I didn't say you suck, you just assumed the position.
easiest to drive without wrecking you say? maybe a base model.
go try an circuit race with a gutted crx with a k swap that's boosted. have fun keeping it on the track. bet you will miss 3rd gear a few times.
I don't own any fwd cars except the 2011 fusion se. family car. I daily the exploder with a 5spd. but not for long. MR is the best. but FF does not suck.
cmbscx10
I wanna be Dave
Nope they do not. Just my opinion is that Until you reach a high enough $$ there is no way a $5000 RWD will keep up with a $5000 FWD...at least in the twisted were I use mine. It is my opinion that 8-10 people don't know how to drive either so "reading" one is better than the other is silly.
Would I want a RWD vs a FWD? Oh you bet but never saw one that wasn't stupid expensive. I can afford FWD and if I am a few tenths, seconds or even a minute behind I am ok with that.
All things equal except drive train layout I'd give the RWD more than a fighting chance. FWD cars tend to be tight/push. RWD cars tend to be looser. Loose is fast if you can handle it.
How I long for a modern day Chevette - compact, front engine, rear wheel drive car. Never drove one, but I image it's a lot of fun if we had a modern version of it.
I don't know one car lover that would take FWD over RWD if they had a choice.
The good thing is in the current world we have fun cars in most layouts.
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MattySlimz1987
Rock Crawler
I knew Honda and the word Ricer would end up in this thread eventually haha. It’s apparent “most” (didn’t say ALL) millennials including myself, will have a certain or special place in their heart for a FWD for the fact that a large majority of the generation, a FWD car was their first vehicle. Older folks will look down upon them for sure with their early year econo boxes (Chevette/Citation) giving them a horrible rep. The 60s Toronado? I’m sure it draw criticism too even being the icon it became. My first car, a FWD, kills me to this day I let it go, a 90 CRX Si with a ZC swap, miss it very much. If I hadn’t known they were going to be this hard to come by nearly 15 years later, I would’ve stored it in my family’s estate in upstate NY.
I’ve owned quite a few FWD cars in my 31 years of existence from Honda, DSM, to VW. Some fast, some slow but there’s not another drivetrain layout that can do what a FWD car can do and that’s kill it on all angles of a driving experience from track, drag, rally, to commute, it has its own certain feel. Yes RWD and awd are the ultimate and favored layouts for most motorsports, but Fwd has its place too. Financially they CAN be your cheapest solution to hurting a vette’ owners feelings on the freeway or drag strip for that matter (ask the K-series and F motor builders and they’ll tell you)
The irony of me coming on here to defend the FWD platform is that my first RWD was a 97 FORD Mustang GT (that insurance was way to high for a 23 y/o male) and my first 4wd just so happened to be a 94 FORD “Exploder” XLT. I didn’t really want to buy it at the time but wanted something that would get me to work everyday and that could handle my weekend wheeling abuse without asking family or bank for a loan. It’s TTB front that Ford is famous for was really a beast and took serious abuse only to get me to work the next day on the road without issue. The ultimate demise of the beast was its notorious A4LD automatic. One thing Ford never had in the past was being on top of its automatic game (Chevy held that title) Ford had the good axles and better frames in its truck line. Now look at Ford and their auto trans game! Their taking over the whole industry with the 10-speed that apparently “seems to always be in the right gear and never searching. It will be a big change to a manufacturer that a lot of us all know and love. I just see more of Honda in my spotlight right now. Already having 1 child and not knowing what the future holds as far as my young family grows, it seems the XJ will retire into a leisure time build toy destined for the trails, thoughts of trading in the Accord for a Pilot that the wife desires so much is starting to become more of a reality in my head after all, never know.
I’ve owned quite a few FWD cars in my 31 years of existence from Honda, DSM, to VW. Some fast, some slow but there’s not another drivetrain layout that can do what a FWD car can do and that’s kill it on all angles of a driving experience from track, drag, rally, to commute, it has its own certain feel. Yes RWD and awd are the ultimate and favored layouts for most motorsports, but Fwd has its place too. Financially they CAN be your cheapest solution to hurting a vette’ owners feelings on the freeway or drag strip for that matter (ask the K-series and F motor builders and they’ll tell you)
The irony of me coming on here to defend the FWD platform is that my first RWD was a 97 FORD Mustang GT (that insurance was way to high for a 23 y/o male) and my first 4wd just so happened to be a 94 FORD “Exploder” XLT. I didn’t really want to buy it at the time but wanted something that would get me to work everyday and that could handle my weekend wheeling abuse without asking family or bank for a loan. It’s TTB front that Ford is famous for was really a beast and took serious abuse only to get me to work the next day on the road without issue. The ultimate demise of the beast was its notorious A4LD automatic. One thing Ford never had in the past was being on top of its automatic game (Chevy held that title) Ford had the good axles and better frames in its truck line. Now look at Ford and their auto trans game! Their taking over the whole industry with the 10-speed that apparently “seems to always be in the right gear and never searching. It will be a big change to a manufacturer that a lot of us all know and love. I just see more of Honda in my spotlight right now. Already having 1 child and not knowing what the future holds as far as my young family grows, it seems the XJ will retire into a leisure time build toy destined for the trails, thoughts of trading in the Accord for a Pilot that the wife desires so much is starting to become more of a reality in my head after all, never know.
High five for for the zc!
I was killing integra gsr and other ef b16 swapped cars with my little 1.6 non vtec dohc!
Rumors went around my car had a turbo 1.8 ls block hahaha fun times...
And my first car was actually a 65 el camino but my mom was terrified and bought me the civic. (The only car ever bought for me and it was already a 7 year old car)
Barely not a millennial as im 38 heheh.
And yes, i always hoon responsibly. At a track. Been drifting and autocrossing since 2003.
Speaking of hoon handles and ford... google that. Ford hoon handle. Its a thing. An expensive thing. A funny, expensive thing.
I was killing integra gsr and other ef b16 swapped cars with my little 1.6 non vtec dohc!
Rumors went around my car had a turbo 1.8 ls block hahaha fun times...
And my first car was actually a 65 el camino but my mom was terrified and bought me the civic. (The only car ever bought for me and it was already a 7 year old car)
Barely not a millennial as im 38 heheh.
And yes, i always hoon responsibly. At a track. Been drifting and autocrossing since 2003.
Speaking of hoon handles and ford... google that. Ford hoon handle. Its a thing. An expensive thing. A funny, expensive thing.
cmbscx10
I wanna be Dave
Had to look. Could they have just left the GD brake handle on like it is suppose to be there. The new age of P*ssys don't have the arm strength to pull a flippin lever. Durr Durr deh Durr i push the button instead.
Rant over.
MattySlimz1987
Rock Crawler
Lol @ the Ford Hoon Handles!
Yes the ZC was certainly a rev happy little motor. The CRX my parents helped me get when 16 had the swap already and was told the motor from Japan had only 40k on it when installed... I fail to believe all these JDM shops when they tell you their motors and tranny’s they sell all have these really low miles... yeah right! My mom actually would’ve wanted me in an EL Camino rather than that little “tin can” she used to call it, an old muscle cars size and strength would’ve saved ya any crash compared to if something happened in the “tin can”
The fastest Honda I ever owned was a ‘92 EG with an all motor H22a4 had beefed top end eagle rods/pistons, ferrrea valves, and can’t remember if it had some cams or not but more than likely did having that valve-set. I bought it to flip it and make some extra cash, it had some high quality parts, Hasport mounts,. Vorstiener 16s with some Perelli something’s wrapped on, higher end coil-overs. The only thing that was way whack on it was the guy didn’t get around to a good exhaust, it had some crap off an 09 Si from the cat back which made it sound like shit, it needed a tune on Hondatas new 300 crap too so Vtech would come in when it wanted. This was fairly recently and the guy I got it off had good intentions and it showed with the quality parts thrown at it, he just came upon hard times and a super good deal was made. I kept it and drove a couple times a week for about 2 months and sold it for nearly double I payed. It was damn fast though, if I would’ve kept it any longer it wouldve got me in trouble.. no need to add to my DMV multi page rap sheet lmao. Ya know the H22 23 is the poor mans K series so Ive heard latley, was kinda funny.
Yes the ZC was certainly a rev happy little motor. The CRX my parents helped me get when 16 had the swap already and was told the motor from Japan had only 40k on it when installed... I fail to believe all these JDM shops when they tell you their motors and tranny’s they sell all have these really low miles... yeah right! My mom actually would’ve wanted me in an EL Camino rather than that little “tin can” she used to call it, an old muscle cars size and strength would’ve saved ya any crash compared to if something happened in the “tin can”
The fastest Honda I ever owned was a ‘92 EG with an all motor H22a4 had beefed top end eagle rods/pistons, ferrrea valves, and can’t remember if it had some cams or not but more than likely did having that valve-set. I bought it to flip it and make some extra cash, it had some high quality parts, Hasport mounts,. Vorstiener 16s with some Perelli something’s wrapped on, higher end coil-overs. The only thing that was way whack on it was the guy didn’t get around to a good exhaust, it had some crap off an 09 Si from the cat back which made it sound like shit, it needed a tune on Hondatas new 300 crap too so Vtech would come in when it wanted. This was fairly recently and the guy I got it off had good intentions and it showed with the quality parts thrown at it, he just came upon hard times and a super good deal was made. I kept it and drove a couple times a week for about 2 months and sold it for nearly double I payed. It was damn fast though, if I would’ve kept it any longer it wouldve got me in trouble.. no need to add to my DMV multi page rap sheet lmao. Ya know the H22 23 is the poor mans K series so Ive heard latley, was kinda funny.
Thread devolved to one of the most common arguments out there in automotive forums.
I like FWD fine when speaking of vehicles with relatively low HP/torque figures.
RWD can be a blast to drive at everything from stock Miata to whatever you can afford (as long as it isn't an overweight pig or has shit chassis/suspension design or tuning).
I personally dislike hearing the term "ricer" thrown around - especially when many of the people using the term think highly of certain RWD or AWD Japanese cars (RX7, Supra, GTR, AE86, 240Z, Celica GT-4, NSX, and so on).
We don't say "sauerkrauter" or some other odd term when referring to VWs (Hmmm... even the FWD Golf GTI doesn't create near as much internet scorn as a Japanese FWD) or Audis or Porsches, and we don't say "lasagnaer" (? - I'm unable to even come up with something here) for Fiats or Alfa Romeos or Ferraris.
My first car was a used Datsun 240Z.
2nd was a used (and definitely abused) '71 AMC Ambassador (aka "The Am-Bad-Ass-a-Door...).
3rd was a new Mazda 323 hatchback.
4th was a used VW Rabbit (made in Pennsylvania, GTI fender flares but milder motor and square headlights).
5th was a new Nissan Hardbody 2WD.
6th was a new Ford Festiva (hilarious, 12" wheels, 67HP, technically a Mazda 121 built by Kia, sold with a Ford grille).
7th was a new Mazda Protege ES (Miata motor, different cam for more torque but less HP, 5spd, sport suspension & 4wheel disc brakes).
8th was a new Nissan Frontier Desert Runner V6 (King Cab base but on the 4X4 frame which gave it a boost in ride height, bigger tires, limited slip diff).
~ Pause for several 2-wheeled motorized vehicles, no car or truck - Roughly 7 years ~
9th was a very used Hyundai Accent (no motorcycle for now).
10th was a new 2010 Honda Fit Sport (and also a used Suzuki SV650 - currently broken).
*Full stop......................................................................................
Next car?
Likely to be AWD or FWD, wagon or hatchback.
I'm single, never spawned, but still prefer practical vehicles, yet enjoy a bit of performance.
Wouldn't mind a beater 2nd vehicle if I could swing one - maybe an old Miata or even an old truck (as small as possible - no full-size trucks, please).
My contribution to the thread derail. "thumbsup"
I like FWD fine when speaking of vehicles with relatively low HP/torque figures.
RWD can be a blast to drive at everything from stock Miata to whatever you can afford (as long as it isn't an overweight pig or has shit chassis/suspension design or tuning).
I personally dislike hearing the term "ricer" thrown around - especially when many of the people using the term think highly of certain RWD or AWD Japanese cars (RX7, Supra, GTR, AE86, 240Z, Celica GT-4, NSX, and so on).
We don't say "sauerkrauter" or some other odd term when referring to VWs (Hmmm... even the FWD Golf GTI doesn't create near as much internet scorn as a Japanese FWD) or Audis or Porsches, and we don't say "lasagnaer" (? - I'm unable to even come up with something here) for Fiats or Alfa Romeos or Ferraris.
My first car was a used Datsun 240Z.
2nd was a used (and definitely abused) '71 AMC Ambassador (aka "The Am-Bad-Ass-a-Door...).
3rd was a new Mazda 323 hatchback.
4th was a used VW Rabbit (made in Pennsylvania, GTI fender flares but milder motor and square headlights).
5th was a new Nissan Hardbody 2WD.
6th was a new Ford Festiva (hilarious, 12" wheels, 67HP, technically a Mazda 121 built by Kia, sold with a Ford grille).
7th was a new Mazda Protege ES (Miata motor, different cam for more torque but less HP, 5spd, sport suspension & 4wheel disc brakes).
8th was a new Nissan Frontier Desert Runner V6 (King Cab base but on the 4X4 frame which gave it a boost in ride height, bigger tires, limited slip diff).
~ Pause for several 2-wheeled motorized vehicles, no car or truck - Roughly 7 years ~
9th was a very used Hyundai Accent (no motorcycle for now).
10th was a new 2010 Honda Fit Sport (and also a used Suzuki SV650 - currently broken).
*Full stop......................................................................................
Next car?
Likely to be AWD or FWD, wagon or hatchback.
I'm single, never spawned, but still prefer practical vehicles, yet enjoy a bit of performance.
Wouldn't mind a beater 2nd vehicle if I could swing one - maybe an old Miata or even an old truck (as small as possible - no full-size trucks, please).
My contribution to the thread derail. "thumbsup"
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when i found out you can get 2012 BMW M3 sedans with a V8, i looked and... V8KRAUT is available license plate on the DMV website hahaha
if not for the bad rod bearings and failing throttle servos, i would have probably bought one. but for ~$23k and gambling on engine reliability... pass.
so yeah i sometimes refer to german "rice" as "kraut" lol (i'm part german so i can get away with it!)
funny the protégé thing... my buddy in high school had a 94 sedan 5 spd. all we did was slam it and put a cone filter on it... it killed so many Hondas, people claimed we used nitrous!!! hahahaha!
if not for the bad rod bearings and failing throttle servos, i would have probably bought one. but for ~$23k and gambling on engine reliability... pass.
so yeah i sometimes refer to german "rice" as "kraut" lol (i'm part german so i can get away with it!)
funny the protégé thing... my buddy in high school had a 94 sedan 5 spd. all we did was slam it and put a cone filter on it... it killed so many Hondas, people claimed we used nitrous!!! hahahaha!
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hpiguy
Rock Crawler
I was fortunate enough to get to attend the BMW performance driving school in 2012, for free thanks to a vendor. I've always liked the M3, but that experience solidified it, I love those cars. At least when they were still a 2dr that is. But I'm with you on the motor issues. Too many other options out there that are much more reliable, and will do what I want it to do for the same money, or less.
A good friend of mine had a Lancer EVO X, and went from that to a BMW 335i M sport. I've flogged both cars, and greatly preferred the bimmer. Don't get me wrong, the EVO was an amazing car, but your Grandma could be quick in that car, which is just a further testament to the car. I just preferred the handling balance of the bimmer, and the low end torque of the turbo 6 vs the turbo 2.0 four.
The best thing about German cars, is German engineering. The worst thing about German cars, is German engineering. :mrgreen: If something goes wrong on the newer ones, it's more than likely going to cost you a metric shit ton of money to fix it once the warranty is up. I had a friend scrap an Audi A4 turbo due to maintenance costs at high mileage. The repair bills were more than the car was worth, by a lot.
And Mazda has always claimed their cars were meant to be fun to drive. I've owned two RX7s, and a MX 6 GT turbo. All were fun to drive, but RX7s were my favorite cars that I ever owned. Had I been making more money back in those days, I'd have kept one of them. I've checked around a little after selling the moto, and even the FC3s are bringing ridiculous prices now. Oddly enough, I can pick up an RX8 fairly reasonably priced. I'm assuming because it's a 2+2 and not a true sports car, that maybe purists aren't buying or holding onto them.
Oh well, in a few years when I get rid of the compact lifted wagon, CUV, or whatever they're called at the moment who knows what I'll end up with. From the looks of things though, I'm not going to get the choice of a third pedal if I stick with a Subie. They've already claimed the next gen WRX may not even have a manual offering. At least on Subies their manual trannies get shit reviews anyway, so it's not a huge loss like it would be in other platforms. Still makes me a little sad though.
I'd really like to pick up something before my nephew starts driving, so that he at least gets to learn to drive a manual. Hell, maybe I'll get that Vette I've always wanted (used), and get to be the cool Uncle that teaches him how to do doughnuts, burnouts, and heel/toe shifting.
A good friend of mine had a Lancer EVO X, and went from that to a BMW 335i M sport. I've flogged both cars, and greatly preferred the bimmer. Don't get me wrong, the EVO was an amazing car, but your Grandma could be quick in that car, which is just a further testament to the car. I just preferred the handling balance of the bimmer, and the low end torque of the turbo 6 vs the turbo 2.0 four.
The best thing about German cars, is German engineering. The worst thing about German cars, is German engineering. :mrgreen: If something goes wrong on the newer ones, it's more than likely going to cost you a metric shit ton of money to fix it once the warranty is up. I had a friend scrap an Audi A4 turbo due to maintenance costs at high mileage. The repair bills were more than the car was worth, by a lot.
And Mazda has always claimed their cars were meant to be fun to drive. I've owned two RX7s, and a MX 6 GT turbo. All were fun to drive, but RX7s were my favorite cars that I ever owned. Had I been making more money back in those days, I'd have kept one of them. I've checked around a little after selling the moto, and even the FC3s are bringing ridiculous prices now. Oddly enough, I can pick up an RX8 fairly reasonably priced. I'm assuming because it's a 2+2 and not a true sports car, that maybe purists aren't buying or holding onto them.
Oh well, in a few years when I get rid of the compact lifted wagon, CUV, or whatever they're called at the moment who knows what I'll end up with. From the looks of things though, I'm not going to get the choice of a third pedal if I stick with a Subie. They've already claimed the next gen WRX may not even have a manual offering. At least on Subies their manual trannies get shit reviews anyway, so it's not a huge loss like it would be in other platforms. Still makes me a little sad though.
I'd really like to pick up something before my nephew starts driving, so that he at least gets to learn to drive a manual. Hell, maybe I'll get that Vette I've always wanted (used), and get to be the cool Uncle that teaches him how to do doughnuts, burnouts, and heel/toe shifting.
I'm half German, as well - my mother and I were both born there, although I was born in a U.S. Army hospital, to a U.S. Army officer father from Alabama...
When I grew up I was a huge fan of nearly any German car, although the Lancia Stratos became my all-time dream car when I was 11 or 12.
That was when a my mom's favorite cousin, a Fiat dealer, gave me a poster of one. I'd still love to someday own a replica with either an Alfa Romeo V6 or get crazy and stuff an older Ferrari V8 from a 308 or something similar in there!
Realistically, however - I've stopped being such a German car fanatic as I got older, for the most part they've gotten too full of gadgetry and too luxurious.
Even the Golf is now too big and heavy for me.
My favorite BMW (and one of my all-time favorite cars) is the '74 2002tii Touring - not many people knew that the classic 2002 could be had as a hatch!:
When I grew up I was a huge fan of nearly any German car, although the Lancia Stratos became my all-time dream car when I was 11 or 12.
That was when a my mom's favorite cousin, a Fiat dealer, gave me a poster of one. I'd still love to someday own a replica with either an Alfa Romeo V6 or get crazy and stuff an older Ferrari V8 from a 308 or something similar in there!
Realistically, however - I've stopped being such a German car fanatic as I got older, for the most part they've gotten too full of gadgetry and too luxurious.
Even the Golf is now too big and heavy for me.
My favorite BMW (and one of my all-time favorite cars) is the '74 2002tii Touring - not many people knew that the classic 2002 could be had as a hatch!:
More on reasons behind the upcoming Ford changes:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/the-real-reason-ford-is-phasing-out-its-sedans/ar-AAwHSHJ?li=BBnb7Kz
It's very interesting, going over in detail the loophole in CAFE standards that is driving this...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/the-real-reason-ford-is-phasing-out-its-sedans/ar-AAwHSHJ?li=BBnb7Kz
It's very interesting, going over in detail the loophole in CAFE standards that is driving this...
