Ford's future plans in North America

[BUBBA069]

Vehicle prices are going to continue to go up just like everything else in our lives.

Cars are as expensive as ever, but you get more value for your money IMO. You can get fully loaded, compact cars with all kinds of goodies and gadgets for under $25,000.

SUV and truck prices are bat shit crazy and I'm shocked they are selling so well.

Me and "compact car" does not fit in the same sentence :lmao: my daughter was looking at a used Saturn Aura for her first car. Its considered a mid-size, I was practically setting in the back seat to drive the thing and my head still hit the headliner lol.

 

[JDM74]

I wonder how they are going to meet the corporate fleet average MPG with no cars to bring their average down. Maybe the fines they would have to pay are cheaper than making the cars to reach the average.

 

[hpiguy]

I for one am not happy with gas prices going up. For the same reason as many here, our roads are dogshit around here. If I felt like I, and others actually benefited from my fuel taxes I would feel very differently. But as is, we're just getting robbed in NC, and we have some of the highest fuel tax in the nation. Luckily, I think about things like this, and opted for MPG over MPH when buying a new car. Even on a heavy road warrior month at work, my fuel bill is only about $75.

The price of trucks and SUVs is full retard these days. $75k for a truck? I have friends who have very nice, albeit small homes that they didn't pay much more than that for in this area. I really wanted a truck or a Wrangler, but I'm not paying what they want for one new. If they don't totally botch the JL truck, I plan to find a lightly used diesel with low mileage if there are any decent deals once the Subie is gone to it's new home. That will be in four years or so, give or take. Otherwise, no clue what I'll buy then.

 

[durok]

...Like a Mazda CX-3, which has the same basic motor as the Miata - do some of the milder Miata motor mods that are out there and then mildly modify the suspension as one would on an amateur rally race car.

The problem with the small economy cars that I like is that they tend to have a long front overhang and lots of very low-hanging aerodynamic aids under the bumper. Even in a city like Austin with its mild winters the roads just aren't that great, and they still have horrible parking lot entrances and exits that cause everything up front to drag on the pavement.

My Honda Fit has beveled away the edges of these pseudo-spoilers yet still drags on certain spots around town. I'm somewhat of an aggressive driver when there's no traffic around, partly because the Fit is kinda fun to toss around corners though it's not fast enough to get in any real trouble. But because of how low the front is, I often have to back off because of bumps in the road, poorly engineered railroad crossings, etc.

So - someday, I suppose I may join the masses in buying a crossover type vehicle, but I'll be damned if I leave it as boring as it comes from the factory!

When you say, rally race car suspension mods, do you mean you plan to lift the vehicle, or lower it? If it's the former, it's probably fine. If it's the latter, then IMO you're better off starting out with something better suited to the task to begin with, and will also probably cost less in the long run to get what you want out of it.

My mental modifications to a "CUV" (Compact utility Vehicle) included neither lifting nor lowering it - the whole point is that they already have the good ground clearance for sh*tty roads compared to something like my Honda Fit. For example, Ryan Millen (from THAT family of famous racing Millens) is winning rally races in a very mildly modified Toyota RAV4 - FWD, no less... racing against Ford Fiestas that are much lighter. Rhys Millen is also rally racing a modified RAV4.

I'm used to driving relatively fast in FWD vehicles, I know how they handle in the dry, in the wet, with crap OEM tires, with wider and stickier DOT-approved summer tires. I'm comfortable with the pros and cons. In the Autoweek article about the Millen RAV4, they were given the keys to a factory SE model RAV4 with a skidplate and BF Goodrich KO2s, and went out and had fun. They followed that up with a RAV4 Limited and the differences in the suspension tuning between models were immediately noticeable. So, test driving the various CUVs that were on the market whenever I decided to go this route would be of utmost importance, including driving the different trim levels.

Seems to me a little bit of spring/strut/shock tuning coupled with sway bars & strut reinforcement bars could go a ways to making a typical FWD CUV handle better at speed. Add to that a set of lightweight set of wheels and a inch or so wider tire package - and some intake/exhaust mods to the motor, one might end up with a fun little runner.

I'm not that interested in the AWD versions, except perhaps if it was a Subaru Crosstrek, because they know how to do streetable performance AWD - problem with the Crosstrek is that it's a little big, and underpowered. Otherwise the current trend of Method wheel/all-terrain tire modded Crosstreks appeals to me somewhat, but I'd have to go with a turbo kit to get it to be fun, and then it's too expensive and moving away from my desire for cheap, small, and nimble.

Anyways... a lot depends on the aftermarket. Just as it is in R/C, it's easier to find parts to modify some cars. Imagine if I do someday go this route i'll be researching quite a bit.

BTW - while I appreciate that some other locales have much worse roads than Austin, it's all relative. Driving my Honda Fit in my area still leaves something to be desired in the areas of ground clearance. That was my point... ;-)

 

[BigSki]

I'm not surprised to hear that news, as a manufacturing country we build many great kinds of machines, everything from mining/construction equipment, railroad equipment, anything dealing with aerospace. Ships, both military and cargo. Light, medium and heavy duty trucks we do pretty well. We still absolutely suck at making small and mid size cars and small trucks.

What's ideal for me as a daily driver? Easy entry and exit. Supportive and adjustable seating. Good visibility. Ample headroom and interior space. Decent economy.

 

[hpiguy]

Okay then. I drive a Crosstrek, and I'm very happy with it for a daily driver. It's no bigger than the RAV4, but it's lighter by 300-400lbs (lighter than most of the other CUVs too) so the power difference probably won't be much, and a lighter car will handle better all things being equal. The all terrain tires look great, but handle like shit on the pavement. Best money I've spent is on good ultra high performance all season tires that are still snow rated, and still have a 50k tread life warranty. It completely changed the car on the pavement and made it much more fun to drive. I wouldn't mind some suspension tuning for less body roll since it sits pretty high, but then again I don't really want to dump a bunch of money into it as I don't plan on keeping it more than four more years or so. Not because I don't like it, but because I put a lot of miles on the road for work, and it'll be time for a new car. Besides, my niece already called dibs on it too. :mrgreen:

It's a shame that Subaru dropped the WRX 5 door, as that would fit your bill almost perfectly other than ground clearance, but that's cheaper to fix than getting more power out of something that doesn't have it. Any of the FA20 powered Subies are fine if you don't tinker with it much, but don't like much over 350-400HP before things start letting go without a lot of money put into the internals, at least from what I've read.

I'm not trying to convince you on the Crosstrek. But, it's rare for me to still be mostly happy with a car after a year of ownership. I've usually nitpicked it to death at that point. But I really do like my Crosstrek, mostly. It does everything I need, is surprisingly fun to drive in the twisties for what it is, it's the most sure footed car I've ever owned in heavy rain (and we get lots of it), and is incredible in the snow even on ultra hipo all seasons. And returns an average of about 27mpg around town, and 30-32 on the highway here in the mountains. I can't ask for more than that for the buy in price.

 

[durok]

Okay then. I drive a Crosstrek, and I'm very happy with it for a daily driver. It's no bigger than the RAV4, but it's lighter by 300-400lbs (lighter than most of the other CUVs too) so the power difference probably won't be much, and a lighter car will handle better all things being equal. The all terrain tires look great, but handle like shit on the pavement. Best money I've spent is on good ultra high performance all season tires that are still snow rated, and still have a 50k tread life warranty. It completely changed the car on the pavement and made it much more fun to drive. I wouldn't mind some suspension tuning for less body roll since it sits pretty high, but then again I don't really want to dump a bunch of money into it as I don't plan on keeping it more than four more years or so. Not because I don't like it, but because I put a lot of miles on the road for work, and it'll be time for a new car. Besides, my niece already called dibs on it too. :mrgreen:

It's a shame that Subaru dropped the WRX 5 door, as that would fit your bill almost perfectly other than ground clearance, but that's cheaper to fix than getting more power out of something that doesn't have it. Any of the FA20 powered Subies are fine if you don't tinker with it much, but don't like much over 350-400HP before things start letting go without a lot of money put into the internals, at least from what I've read.

I'm not trying to convince you on the Crosstrek. But, it's rare for me to still be mostly happy with a car after a year of ownership. I've usually nitpicked it to death at that point. But I really do like my Crosstrek, mostly. It does everything I need, is surprisingly fun to drive in the twisties for what it is, it's the most sure footed car I've ever owned in heavy rain (and we get lots of it), and is incredible in the snow even on ultra hipo all seasons. And returns an average of about 27mpg around town, and 30-32 on the highway here in the mountains. I can't ask for more than that for the buy in price.

I think I saw some posts from you on your Crosstrek -

Your point regarding vehicle weight is well taken, like I said - more research is needed. I haven't ruled out the Crosstrek - the 2018 refresh allows a 6-speed manual trans in the lower 2 trim levels, although it may or may not be the best choice... read on for more on that.

Here's something I read recently that keeps it as a possible, from Car & Driver:

"The new Crosstrek continues the previous car’s tradition of value, utility, and flannel-flyin’, millennial-baiting pizzazz, and its second iteration is better in just about every conceivable way (except for at the drag strip). And while we do think the CVT powertrain works a bit better than the manual in this application, by opting to shift your own gears you’ll save a thousand bucks and find yourself rewarded by a genuinely well-executed and pleasant gearbox. Pay your money and take your choice. It’s hard to lose either way."

There's talk of tuning chips that will give a power increase - although they always overestimate those gains. Perhaps with additional mild intake/exhaust mods one could possibly get a total bump of around 35HP or so, and that would be enough for me. After the factory warranty runs out, I could maybe seek out a low boost turbo setup.

I'm just spitballing my ultimate daily driver here, an all-rounder to tick all the boxes.

I appreciate your input!

 

[c0bra]

I’ve been a ford fan for my entire life, but lately all I hear are nothing but problems with then that are making me not want to buy one.

For example:
My mom had an 04 explorer that she got brand new. Just before the factory warranty the transmission went for the first time. Then after it got fixed for the 4th time she went out to the truck, started it and put it in reverse and the transmission went clunk! Now it’s been fixed 6 times all together and she is to go to the service manager at the local ford dealership.

My sister has a 2012 focus automatic. She drives the thing like a little old lady that’s paranoid about a leaf in the road. Yet with the way she drives in, and it being an automatic, she’s had the clutch replaced multiple times. Apparently every single focus is a manual, the autos just have a box that does the shifting.

My car is a 09 cobalt, when I got it I heard nothing but problems with the focus of the same year.

I’ve also heard that the new focuses are the exact same as last years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JatoTheRipper]

A lot of people in my family buy Ford trucks and SUVs. When they rust out, which happens quite often, they go get another Ford. I'll never understand it. My aunt had a relatively new Expedition that was still under warranty and the brake lines rusted through and she lots brakes. That would scare me away from Ford forever, but she keeps going back to them. I'll never understand loyalty like that.

The bad news in all of this is that crowds still aren't safe if the Mustang is around! :lmao:

I do want a 2011 Mustang GT in hugger blue myself... They still looked good back then. Then Ford changed them to look like the Fusion and I haven't been a big fan since. I'm a Chevy guy, but the Camaro isn't great looking and it keeps getting worse.

 

[skellyo]

In relation to the Ford news, I completely see where they are coming from. The basic sedan market is flooded and Ford certainly has nothing special to offer in that market. It makes sense for them to concentrate on what sells best for them.

My personal view...I find the lack of domestic sport sedans and smaller sport SUV/Crossovers frustrating. And by sport, I mean something that is RWD or AWD and ~300+ HP. For those domestic vehicles that do fit this, they're priced at or above a comparable import that has a higher reliability rating and maybe even better performance.

 

[Natedog]

Okay then. I drive a Crosstrek, and I'm very happy with it for a daily driver. It's no bigger than the RAV4, but it's lighter by 300-400lbs (lighter than most of the other CUVs too) so the power difference probably won't be much, and a lighter car will handle better all things being equal. The all terrain tires look great, but handle like shit on the pavement. Best money I've spent is on good ultra high performance all season tires that are still snow rated, and still have a 50k tread life warranty. It completely changed the car on the pavement and made it much more fun to drive. I wouldn't mind some suspension tuning for less body roll since it sits pretty high, but then again I don't really want to dump a bunch of money into it as I don't plan on keeping it more than four more years or so. Not because I don't like it, but because I put a lot of miles on the road for work, and it'll be time for a new car. Besides, my niece already called dibs on it too. :mrgreen:

It's a shame that Subaru dropped the WRX 5 door, as that would fit your bill almost perfectly other than ground clearance, but that's cheaper to fix than getting more power out of something that doesn't have it. Any of the FA20 powered Subies are fine if you don't tinker with it much, but don't like much over 350-400HP before things start letting go without a lot of money put into the internals, at least from what I've read.

I'm not trying to convince you on the Crosstrek. But, it's rare for me to still be mostly happy with a car after a year of ownership. I've usually nitpicked it to death at that point. But I really do like my Crosstrek, mostly. It does everything I need, is surprisingly fun to drive in the twisties for what it is, it's the most sure footed car I've ever owned in heavy rain (and we get lots of it), and is incredible in the snow even on ultra hipo all seasons. And returns an average of about 27mpg around town, and 30-32 on the highway here in the mountains. I can't ask for more than that for the buy in price.

Subaru Crosstrek, Forester or Outback! AWD is where it's at, my Forester gets great mileage and is pretty quick for a wagon that off-roads nicely. Sadly American automotive manufactures still don't get it and generally produce cars and trucks that fall apart and have tons of recalls. Foreign vehicles obviously are not perfect, but ime much better (avoid Mercedes Benz and BMW for quality and cost reasons). The way American auto makers dealers treat customers is generally not good either, especially if there's a warranty issue. As Hpiguy said, tire rotation should be done regularly anyways and only downside is if one tire gets a sidewall cut.

Edit: I'm a guy who loves and has owned several RWD hot rods and modified 4X4 trucks.

 

[skellyo]

Sadly American automotive manufactures still don't get it and generally produce cars and trucks that fall apart and have tons of recalls.

Not only is the reliability generally poor compared to imports, IMO, fit and finish is generally not on par either.

Foreign vehicles obviously are not perfect, but ime much better (avoid Mercedes Benz and BMW for quality and cost reasons).

Both MB and BMW are still predicted to be more reliable than all domestic brands except Buick (per CR 2017 data).

 

[Natedog]

Agreed Skellyo and forgot to mention the overly electronic gadget preinstalled junk and cheesy feeling plastic interiors assembled with lazy old tech self-drilling/tapping screws, a real nightmare when doing interior modifications that require panel removal/reinstallation.

 

[CM9000]

predicted maybe

 

[kwkride]

Not only is the reliability generally poor compared to imports, IMO, fit and finish is generally not on par either.

It all depends on your personal experiences. I had a Honda Accord that was the worst car ever. Anything that could go wrong, did. Both of my sisters bought Honda Pilots. One has been good and the other kept breaking down until she got rid of it.

I've owned a lot of cars and my American cars have been the most dependable by far. I would be hard pressed to consider a foreign car again.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

Not only is the reliability generally poor compared to imports, IMO, fit and finish is generally not on par either.

Both MB and BMW are still predicted to be more reliable than all domestic brands except Buick (per CR 2017 data).

Reliability ranking are, well, not all that reliable. A knock against a car, depending on the survey, could be something as simple as a defective radio or as major as engine and transmission problems.

The more complicated a car is the more it tends to be unreliable as a general rule. General rule not concrete fact. A lot of reasons cars are deemed unreliable is from the infotainment centers that continually consume more of the car each year. That's why these rankings aren't telling the whole story. And this is why "reliability" isn't necessary what people would think.

American cars are no worse in terms of reliability in my experience among myself, family, and friends. Cheap cars are built to a price and they suffer in different areas to varying degrees. Honda and Toyota build engines that run forever, but outside of that the competition is much closer among the remaining brands.

BMW & MB have worked their way up the rankings. It wasn't so long ago where they both lagged way behind with many issues stemming from all of their features. Same goes for Audi.

I drive a Kia. People constantly bash them yet they continually rank in the top 5 or 10 in those reliability surveys.

 

[soze]

Saw this news yesterday. I thought at least the Focus was worth keeping around. Mustang and trucks are a given though.

I still want a truck one day, but I don't need one right now, and I wouldn't buy new anyway... at least not with the way the prices are now for trucks.

 

[skellyo]

Reliability ranking are, well, not all that reliable. A knock against a car, depending on the survey, could be something as simple as a defective radio or as major as engine and transmission problems.

The more complicated a car is the more it tends to be unreliable as a general rule. General rule not concrete fact. A lot of reasons cars are deemed unreliable is from the infotainment centers that continually consume more of the car each year. That's why these rankings aren't telling the whole story. And this is why "reliability" isn't necessary what people would think.

True. However, I'd still prefer a vehicle that typically has less "nits" whether they be software hiccups or drivetrain issues.

American cars are no worse in terms of reliability in my experience among myself, family, and friends. Cheap cars are built to a price and they suffer in different areas to varying degrees. Honda and Toyota build engines that run forever, but outside of that the competition is much closer among the remaining brands.

I personally haven't had a significant amount of issues with any of the American vehicles I've owned in the past, but still more than the imports I have now.

BMW & MB have worked their way up the rankings. It wasn't so long ago where they both lagged way behind with many issues stemming from all of their features. Same goes for Audi.

And some still have features in their infancy that are likely to have bugs. (i.e, Audi Virtual Cockpit)

I drive a Kia. People constantly bash them yet they continually rank in the top 5 or 10 in those reliability surveys.

Kia offers a lot of bang for the buck and makes some nice looking cars. I love the look and specs of the Stinger, but it gets a little pricey when you load up the GT.

 

[tuanies]

Saw this news yesterday. I thought at least the Focus was worth keeping around. Mustang and trucks are a given though.

I still want a truck one day, but I don't need one right now, and I wouldn't buy new anyway... at least not with the way the prices are now for trucks.

It's kind of not going away. We're just going to get the Active, which is like the Crosstrek to the Impreza.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

We still absolutely suck at making small and mid size cars and small trucks.

This.