HobbiCo / Great Planes / Tower Hobbies

[makya]

Large companies keep lawyers on staff or on contract. That bill may or may not be from the lawsuit alone. But if HobbiCo/Arrma lawyers had done their works then they would never have violated the Traxxas patent. Blame HobbiCo/Arrma for this one not Traxxas. Traxxas is not the bad guy for defending their intellectual property.

maybe.

Traxxas didn't invent the rockers that they are suing over, but they were able to get a patent on them. that design on r/c's goes back to the early to mid 80's. I'm not saying whether Traxxas had the right to sue or not, but for all we know (which is nothing), they could have smelled blood in the water and spent the lawsuit money to drive their competition (Hobbico/Arrma) further into debt on purpose. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen that happen. With Traxxas being a profitable company, they can use the write-off in taxes that they spend on lawsuits.

Either way, Hobbico was guilty of enough mismanagement to drive themselves to this point, the lawsuits they've had this past year or two haven't helped any though.

 

[calcagno45]

Large companies keep lawyers on staff or on contract. That bill may or may not be from the lawsuit alone. But if HobbiCo/Arrma lawyers had done their works then they would never have violated the Traxxas patent. Blame HobbiCo/Arrma for this one not Traxxas. Traxxas is not the bad guy for defending their intellectual property.

I agree on contract but likely not for that amount. That bill is related to the Traxxas case.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

maybe.

Traxxas didn't invent the rockers that they are suing over, but they were able to get a patent on them. that design on r/c's goes back to the early to mid 80's. I'm not saying whether Traxxas had the right to sue or not, but for all we know (which is nothing), they could have smelled blood in the water and spent the lawsuit money to drive their competition (Hobbico/Arrma) further into debt on purpose. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen that happen. With Traxxas being a profitable company, they can use the write-off in taxes that they spend on lawsuits.

Either way, Hobbico was guilty of enough mismanagement to drive themselves to this point, the lawsuits they've had this past year or two haven't helped any though.

The patent was issued. I don't think its validity is for you or me to decide. I don't know about you, but I'm not a patent lawyer.

Traxxas had every right to sue if HobbiCo infringed on their patent. If Traxxas was stupid enough to infringe on a HobbiCo patent you can be damn sure HobbiCo would have sued Traxxas.

Remember that Traxxas also sued Vaterra because of the Twin Hammers. Vaterra changed the design of the rocker arm and put the TH back on the market.

EDIT: Here's the patent: https://www.google.com/patents/US7883099
Feel free to read through all of that and see if you understand all of the legalese 100%. I know I don't. But again, remember that Vaterra was somehow able to easily get around this patent by simply changing the rocker arms on the Twin Hammers.

EDIT2: Another patent covering the suspension: https://www.google.com/patents/USD567886

 

[Jim85IROC]

I tend to agree. Axial had the market all to themselves and they let it slip away. The SCX10 II was delayed way too long and then when it came out people went "Meh" instead of "OMG I need one!"


Traxxas wouldn't want Axial's extensive line of products. Most of their products don't fall into their target audience. That's why it doesn't even make sense for Traxxas to buy Axial, but if they ever would they wouldn't keep most of the products IMO.

Axial, we assume, is profitable, but I'm sure it pales in comparison to Traxxas. Companies eat up other less valuable companies all the time sometimes for no reason other than to kill the competition. Again, I don't think Traxxas would do that because they aren't worried about Axial one bit.

I kinda think you're missing the point. If I have a product that I already have a target audience for, why would I buy another company that is going to compete with the same target audience for sales? You buy a company whose target audience is completely different. That way your target audience just got bigger.

 

[makya]

The patent was issued. I don't think its validity is for you or me to decide. I don't know about you, but I'm not a patent lawyer.

Traxxas had every right to sue if HobbiCo infringed on their patent. If Traxxas was stupid enough to infringe on a HobbiCo patent you can be damn sure HobbiCo would have sued Traxxas.

Remember that Traxxas also sued Vaterra because of the Twin Hammers. Vaterra changed the design of the rocker arm and put the TH back on the market.

You're arguing that it's valid, but neither case was found to be an infringement iirc. vaterra agreed to change the design, which was probably cheaper than fighting it in court. The Arrma case hasn't been fought yet as far as I know. So yes, Traxxas did get their patent, but it hasn't been found in court whether or not there has been an actual infringment on the design. Patent lawyer or not, Neither one of us know all the details, so ASSuming one way or the other is a moot point.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

I kinda think you're missing the point. If I have a product that I already have a target audience for, why would I buy another company that is going to compete with the same target audience for sales? You buy a company whose target audience is completely different. That way your target audience just got bigger.

Think about your question. Companies are out to dominate the market and make as much profit as possible. Crushing the competition, especially when they step on your toes, is fair game.

 

[Jim85IROC]

Think about your question. Companies are out to dominate the market and make as much profit as possible. Crushing the competition, especially when they step on your toes, is fair game.

Yeah, no doubt, but of your own admission, Axial and Traxxas have a different target market, so they're not really "competition".

Traxxas and Aarma are competition. Traxxas and HPI are competition.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

You're arguing that it's valid, but neither case was found to be an infringement iirc. vaterra agreed to change the design, which was probably cheaper than fighting it in court. The Arrma case hasn't been fought yet as far as I know. So yes, Traxxas did get their patent, but it hasn't been found in court whether or not there has been an actual infringment on the design. Patent lawyer or not, Neither one of us know all the details, so ASSuming one way or the other is a moot point.

Good point. I'm not sure about the outcome of the Vaterra case other than they changed the rocker arm.

Yeah, no doubt, but of your own admission, Axial and Traxxas have a different target market, so they're not really "competition".

Traxxas and Aarma are competition. Traxxas and HPI are competition.

Traxxas is a company that manufacturers radio control cars. Axial, indeed, is competition especially now that the TRX-4 is around.

 

[DukeMinnix]

Yeah, no doubt, but of your own admission, Axial and Traxxas have a different target market, so they're not really "competition".

Traxxas and Aarma are competition. Traxxas and HPI are competition.

I believe now that the trx4 has hit the market and gained a foothold, traxxas and axial are also now competition.

 

[makya]

Axial and Traxxas are definitely competitors, with Axial getting into monster trucks, 1/18 scale (against LaTrax) and Traxxas releasing the TRX-4. I still don't see Traxxas spending the money on Axial (especially considering Axial's drama over suppliers, and the ensuing questions about who has their designs), when they could outsource through LaTrax and release a lower price point crawler that way.

 

[BigSki]

FCA posts record 3Q, higher profit, margins

That's one of the sources that I read early last year that FCA was bankrupt and was looking for someone to buy the company. If they've turned it around, good for them. The last CR that I read about the worst cars to won, FCA had vehicles in EVERY catagory with the GC leading the way. Things like this are what I based my opinions on. If they've managed to turn it around, good for them. I hope that the new Wrangler delivers all that was promised, it's the last vehicle to wear the JEEP name badge that still has anything in common with the old 'Jeep" brand name.

 

[tuanies]

That's one of the sources that I read early last year that FCA was bankrupt and was looking for someone to buy the company. If they've turned it around, good for them. The last CR that I read about the worst cars to won, FCA had vehicles in EVERY catagory with the GC leading the way. Things like this are what I based my opinions on. If they've managed to turn it around, good for them. I hope that the new Wrangler delivers all that was promised, it's the last vehicle to wear the JEEP name badge that still has anything in common with the old 'Jeep" brand name.

They were always doing fine and recovering, but the industry is heading into uncharted territory, so partnerships and mergers tend to happen. Anything with the 9-speed automatic, whether its a Jeep, Honda, Acura, Mercedes or Chrysler, is terrible. I've never driven a transmission so crappy in any vehicle and it seems like the Jeep vehicles with those have the most problems.

I really want the new 2019 RAM Rebel though, its sexy.

 

[BigSki]

Sorry for the derailment, back on track with this. I was at a LHS today, I asked them about how everything impacts them right now. I was told that once they sell off remaining Axial stock, they aren't ordering anything else. I can't imagine what the employees at the affected companies must be thinking right now, it's such a niche market where they work, where do they go for new jobs if it all implodes?

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

If I have a product that I already have a target audience for, why would I buy another company that is going to compete with the same target audience for sales? You buy a company whose target audience is completely different. That way your target audience just got bigger.

You buy a competing company to get their customers. Your percentage of the target audience just got that much bigger.

I deal with a company at work that has bought out many competitors, and maintains those competitors brand names and product lines. As the technology improves, and depending on how those products are selling, they'll either phase them out or keep them up to date.

Sometimes they'll buy a company just so that they can own whatever patents and production facilities they have. It's way cheaper than building from scratch.

 

[Brake Weight]

So I need to stock up on a few kits, used rollers, or part out parts trees?

 

[makya]

Sorry for the derailment, back on track with this. I was at a LHS today, I asked them about how everything impacts them right now. I was told that once they sell off remaining Axial stock, they aren't ordering anything else. I can't imagine what the employees at the affected companies must be thinking right now, it's such a niche market where they work, where do they go for new jobs if it all implodes?

After this last years' supply issues that Axial has had, I can't blame any hobby shop for dropping them in light of this information. There are beginning to be enough other companies making crawlers that they can be replaced (to a point).

 

[BJoe]

They were always doing fine and recovering, but the industry is heading into uncharted territory, so partnerships and mergers tend to happen. Anything with the 9-speed automatic, whether its a Jeep, Honda, Acura, Mercedes or Chrysler, is terrible. I've never driven a transmission so crappy in any vehicle and it seems like the Jeep vehicles with those have the most problems.

I really want the new 2019 RAM Rebel though, its sexy.

I had a Pacifica as a loaner back in September when my 200 was getting a recall repair done (something in the airbag system that wasn't Takata related, still dodging that bullet:shock: ) and it took a few miles of somewhat aggressive driving to get the computer and myself on the same page, but once that happened, I was pretty happy with how that 9 speed felt, and that it felt pretty damned quick for a stock van:ror: It's a whole different feel than the 62TE (6 speed auto) in my 200, let alone the the 4 speeds in my parent's Town and Country (A-604?), the Chevy Beauville (700r4) that replaced, as well as the AW4 in the XJ's we had.

 

[Brake Weight]

Nobody here with enough money to buy them once they finish filing and lose the debt? Fire all of them and start over? LOL. No Powerball winners on the boards?

 

[Col_Sanders]

I doubt Traxxas would buy them. My Traxialfest joke was more about me driving my TRX-4 around at Axialfest with an SCX10 II body on it. :lmao:

I dont think Horizon would buy them either. What about Team Associated? They are pretty much the only ones not in the crawler market and they dont have IFS/Solid rear vehicles either. Maybe they could make the Yeti not suck.

 

[Brake Weight]

I doubt Traxxas would buy them. My Traxialfest joke was more about me driving my TRX-4 around at Axialfest with an SCX10 II body on it. :lmao:



I dont think Horizon would buy them either. What about Team Associated? They are pretty much the only ones not in the crawler market and they dont have IFS/Solid rear vehicles either. Maybe they could make the Yeti not suck.

TA has that kinda pricey indy Nomad thing. It does looks good on YouTube though.