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The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play with a bird

Panther6834

I wanna be Dave
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
2,409
Location
US
The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play with a bird

Ok...I admit, I'm (somewhat) late to the game. But, while I might be "late" (by some other people's standards), I have actually had the kit for a few weeks...plus, (and, more importantly) I prefer to think of it more along the lines of "planning things out, taking my time, and doing things right". I feel no need to rush into building something, just to be first (or even one of the first). With that said, I finally started my VS4-10 Phoenix build...but, like the builds I've done so far, mine certainly won't be 'stock'. Does this mean another Star Wars, or Avengers, themed build? Not necessarily.

I will state that it will have the VFD-Twin trans & skid (the primary purpose for having received the Phoenix), as well as the VS4-10 chassis & Phoenix body...or, at least most of the body. Beyond that, I can't yet say what direction I'll be going in - partly because I don't want to spoil any surprises, and partly because I'm still processing ideas in my head. Also, since there have already been more than a few Phoenix build threads, this will not be a "full build" thread, documenting everything done - I will primarily focus on changes I've made, as well as any customizing I come up with. I fully expect this to take at least a couple of months, if not longer. Ok, enough 'chitchat'...as Capt. Picard would say, "Engage."

Everyone loves to joke about the "D Bag", thus I've always wanted to start there...but, until now, no kit I've done has afforded me a realistic option to start there. So...yes...I AM starting with the D-bag. Honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than the highlight of the VS4-10 Phoenix: the VFD-Twin transmission. Changes to the VFD-Twin will include gears, motor mount, standoffs, and bearing plates.
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First changes in the assembly line - the motor mount, and standoffs. Gone are the plastic pieces, replaced with the Lightweight Aluminum Motor Mount, and the Aluminum standoffs. This not only adds a little weight, but also adds strength & rigidity.
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Next up in the changes being made, say "goodbye" to the sintered gears, and "hello" to the Machined Gear Set. Now, I know what some of your are thinking. You're gonna say, "You can't used the Machines Gear Set in the VFD-Twin. Those are only for the OG VFD." And, truthfully, for the most part, you'd be correct...but, the first two gears CAN be used.
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It's already been confirmed (by Josh, in the Friday Live Build two weeks ago) that Vanquish is working on the Machined Gear Set for the VFD-Twin...so, once they're released, instead of having to disassemble/reassemble almost the entire VFD-Twin, I'll only have to disassemble/reassemble the T-case section (saving a lot of time in the process). As for the remaining gears from both machined sets, I'll hold onto them for a future build that will be using the OG VFD.

With the main part of the transmission complete, it was time to move onto the T-case. I'm currently blanking on who (although, I'm thinking it was Ty Campbell, of Tekin) mentioned that the 30T Aluminum Bearing Plates can be used instead of the included plastic plates...so, that's what I decided to go with - first plate & bearings installed.
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I'm not sure if the machined gears add any weight...but, at least with the aluminum parts used, the completed transmission will have a little extra heft, mostly in the front. As for the completed VFD-Twin, here it is.
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I would have installed the motor, but the wrong motor was received from the online retailer I purchased it from, so will now have to deal with them on an exchange (which one already started...and, once the correct motor is back in stock, it will be shipped). In the meantime, and to avoid waiting to build the chassis, I decided to go ahead, build the chassis, and (temporarily) install the VFD-Twin.
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I can't say when the next update will come...could be a few days, or a few weeks. At least I was finally able to start the build...a dark Phoenix is rising. Until next time.......


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place
 
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Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Those metal bearing plates you have there have a nice shine to them. I don't how much of a difference many of the metal 'upgrade' parts actually make, but they are definitely an upgrade in the tactile department; it's a joy to work with metal parts.

I am never the first to build the latest kit either. It's important to savor life's joy. Building a fresh kit is definitely that. This Phoenix has been my favorite kit build to date.

Look forward to your progress, be it slow or be it fast...

8)
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

I don't blame you a bit! No need to rush building this kit! Take your time and enjoy every moment!"thumbsup"

My Phoenix build has been slow as of late. No big rush since the weather here in my area has turned cold and snowy.

Following along and looking forward to seeing what your plan is for it!
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

The story you are about to hear is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

Tuesday, November 30. It's a cold day in the city. Was working on a quick update, but it turned out to not be very "informative". Since the portal axles aren't being used on the Firebird, can't really use the included sausages (legally-speaking, most can be used, but there are a few with length deficiencies). So, I did what any law-abiding citizen would do - I ordered a complete set from Joe Friday's, and am just awaiting their fate to be sealed.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

In been a little over a month since the last update...and, for that, I apologize. Between being contracted by FEMA to drive nurses (which has me a hotel for 2 weeks at a time, hours away from home), and driving for the red carpet premiere of "The Matrix: Resurrections" (which, admittedly, was quite a night...and, that's all I'll can legally say), work has been keeping me extremely busy.

Anyway, while I've been away, the axles that will actually be used arrived, as have a few other surprises. Unfortunately, I've had so little time at home, I haven't had any time to work on the Phoenix...but, I was able to finally obtain something I can/will share - the motor & ESC. There is one ESC/motor combo that many people have been trying to get, yet no retailers seem to have - the Spektrum Firma 2-in-1 Motor/ESC. Even worse, there is one 'variant' that people want even more than the other, but is even more unobtainable - the 1400kv version. Current estimates by retailers indicate receiving them anywhere from mid-February to early-March. Through constant, yet random, searching, I found an online retailer who just happened to have a few (at the time of ordering, on-hand quantity was stated as '3', which was 4 days ago)...so, I ordered one...and, is was delivered today.
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As I should have Monday (and, hopefully, Tuesday) off, my plan is to get it installed, and build/install the axles.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
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Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

As promised, I've finally got an update. First, a lot of people have been wondering/inquiring as to whether, or not, the Spektrum Firma 2-in-1 ESC/Motor Combo will fit inside the VFD (specifically, the Phoenix) transmission...and, not only do I have a definitive answer, but it is "good". As you can see from the photos, below, it definitely fits.
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In order to get the slightly longer, sightly larger-in-diameter, can to fit, I had to Dremel away (at an angle) a small portion of the front upper link mount on the skid.
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But, as you can see, even with that minor amount Dremeled away, there is room. I could have removed more material, creating a larger space between the motor and front upper link mount (currently, there is approximately 1mm), but I didn't think there was any real need to.
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I haven't, yet, decided how I'll be running the wiring, as I first have a few other (related) things to figure out. Thankfully, the ESC/motor isn't the only thing that got installed today. As I previously mentioned, I am not using the Phoenix portal axles in the Phoenix (they will be finding their way into an eventual C2 build)...instead, I'm using the machined axles from the VS4-10 Pro...with some slight changes. As you might notice, the steering knuckles are not the stock pieces. Instead, they have been replaced with the SSD knuckles, to which I have added the SSD brass knuckle weights. The stock knuckles have found their way onto another Vanquish front axle, which is being used in a U4 build.

In regards to the rear, you'll notice the SSD brass end caps. These, too, came from the axles going on the U4 rig (where the steering knuckles & brass knuckle weights also came from). However, I have yet to decide whether they'll remain on the Phoenix, or be returned to the U4 rear axle (with the aluminum caps returning to the Phoenix rear axle). To decide this, I'll have to wait until the vehicle is complete, as it will be decided based on the final front-rear weight bias.
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Closing out this update, the custom link set from InTheWorks arrived. Technically, they arrived a few weeks ago, but one link (panhard) had accidentally not been included in the shipment...so, I contacted Brent, and he had it shipped out within the next few days (NOTE: for those who've never ordered from InTheWorks, know that Brent does outstanding work, and provides extremely exceptional customer service). The lower links are all 1/16" SS, while all other links are 3/16" Ti. Furthermore, the front links are high-clearance, while the rear links are straight.
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That's all I've got for now. Next time, I hope to present something "shocking". Now, if y'all will excuse me, I want to go ride my latest RC before I have to head to work. For those 'wondering' what I mean by "ride my latest RC", it's an Esk8 (electric skateboard, for those wondering about that last term).


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
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Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Nice update! Nice to know the Spektrum motor fits in the VFD. I wondered if it would and glad to know it does. I'll have to try one of them motors in the future.

Great to see you using them beautiful Currie F9 axles! Seeing them on my PRO always makes me drool a little!:ror: I'll have to look into getting the SSD knuckle weights for mine. I didn't know or never thought about fitting them on my axles.

Agee on the InTheWorks links! They are extremely nice links. I have them on my GSpeed builds and they fit perfectly! I haven't had to contact them about missing links, but good to know their customer service is top notch.
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Nice update! Nice to know the Spektrum motor fits in the VFD. I wondered if it would and glad to know it does. I'll have to try one of them motors in the future.



Great to see you using them beautiful Currie F9 axles! Seeing them on my PRO always makes me drool a little!:ror: I'll have to look into getting the SSD knuckle weights for mine. I didn't know or never thought about fitting them on my axles.



Agee on the InTheWorks links! They are extremely nice links. I have them on my GSpeed builds and they fit perfectly! I haven't had to contact them about missing links, but good to know their customer service is top notch.

The "funny" thing is, when the HW version was originally released, I had zero interest...for ANY vehicle (at that time, and for the future)...and, considering its 'problems', I guess "ignoring" it turned out to be a good thing. Since then, HW has had time to "fix" the majority of the problems. Then, you take that, and add the changes wanted by Horizon Hobby/Spektrum, and you (hopefully) end up with a (relatively) 'problem-free' ESC/motor 2-in-1.

As for the F9s, they're great axles. I've got a (black) pair of fronts (4WS) on my other C3 rig, which I ran at Scale Nats 202One (if the Olympics can 'spell' it that way, so can I), and am using in the rebuild. I picked up another set (silver, front/rear) for a Capra-based U4 rig, which is where I took the SSD knuckles & weights from.

Finally, the links for the other C3 rig were purchased from Brent, as will the links for the U4 rig (once I determine the lengths needed, as I haven't even figured out the wheelbase). I have no clue how the panhard link was accidentally forgotten, but, thankfully, he got it shipped asap. Honestly, I wasn't even sure which link was missing. I narrowed down the possibilities to either the panhard, or the steering, and emailed him the measurements all the links I did receive. Within less then an hour (I think it was closer to 20 minutes), he had replied back, not only letting me know which was missing, but also letting me know he'd have the missing link (no pun intended...lol) shipped as soon as he could...and, he did just that. I still can't recall how I ended up with his personal email address (as opposed to the InTheWorks address)...but, I'm glad I had it, as that might have had something to do I with how he replied back so quickly. One thing I can say with 100% certainty - I WILL continue purchasing from him for all link needs (unless, of course, he doesn't offer something I'm in need of), and anyone who asks me for where to get aftermarket links, I will refer them to him. I'll put it this way: great product + great customer service = loyalty.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
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Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Have a quick...albeit, very minor...update. Nothing has been done to the Phoenix since the last update, primarily because I've been on another 14-day rotation (actually, worked 18 days straight), but also because parts that have been received can't be installed yet. This is primarily due to 3 reasons (in order of least-to-most important - body paint job hasn't started, still haven't obtained servos, and a holdup on some parts coming from Spain.

The biggest part of that 3-point 'slowdown' (the lack of servos, as they're actually needed before the parts coming from "across The Pond") is, admittedly, my fault, and one I hope to rectify that within the next few days (hopefully, before the end of today).

However, the parts coming from Spain have been a bit of a 'problem'. I placed the order over two months ago (a few days before Thanksgiving), only to be informed, three weeks after I placed the order (and after sending two emails, inquiring as to what was going on), that more than half my order wasn't actually "in stock"...that the items were "in the chain" - the items had been ordered by the shop, and the manufacturers had informed the shop the products were "on their way". The parts in Woodstock were coming from two different manufacturers...and, in fact, the parts from one of the two actually was enroute to shops throughout Europe.

Unfortunately, as for the parts from the other manufacturer, what that manufacturer failed to tell (at least, at that point in time) European RC shops is that those parts were not actually "on their way", as they had a 'material shortage', and we're waiting for materials to manufacture said parts. Evidently, European shops weren't told this last part for another week.

To end this long 'drama', FAIF Racing RC (the shop I ordered from) connected me two weeks ago, to let me know they had been informed that the parts were finally on their way to European RC shops, and they, as soon as they received them, they'd get the orders out to those who'd been waiting...and, 3 days ago, I received an email confirming shipment of my order, followed by an email containing international & UPS tracking numbers. While the package hasn't yet been placed in the hands of UPS, at least it's finally on its way. The only 'question' running through my head right now is, "Will it arrive before I head back north for my next 14-day rotation?"

Hope to have a "better" update soon. In the meantime, I'm also gathering parts for upgrading my SCX24.
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Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Ok...it's been a while (QUITE a while)...but, I finally have some actual "work in progress" updates.

First, the servos I wanted, as well as the servo winch, were all (finally) back in stock. Handling the steering will be an NSDRC RS800 V2, while a pair of NSDRC RS100M micro servos, along with a pair of carbon fiber adapter plates, will be handling the OD & DIG duties. As for that winch, it's from Boom Racing. One of the reasons I wanted this particular servo winch is it's "quick release" function. Instead of having to release the line slowly, via a button/switch on the Tx, one input needs to push the bottom 'button', or pull the top 'knob', on the servo winch...talk about "speed release".

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Next up is the front & rear center driveshafts...they FINALLY arrived from Spain. They do have a clear coating on them, but I REALLY like the "raw steel" appearance. Hopefully, their 'strength' is as good as their 'looks'.

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Lastly, the standard-length Traxxas GTS shocks (90mm) arrived...and, to my unpleasant discovery, they are too short. The first photo shows full extension, while the second shows full compression.

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At this point, from what I can tell, if I want to stick with GTS shocks, I have three options. The first is to go with the 'Long Arm' version, which are 110mm extended, 75mm compressed (35mm of travel). The second is to use the 'Long Arm' bodies, combined with the standard length shafts...which would be 100mm extended, 75mm compressed, and 25mm of travel. The final option (and, the one in currently leaning towards...first option is my 2nd choice) is to use the standard bodies & 'Long Arm' shafts, which gives 100mm extended, 73mm compressed, and 27mm of travel.

In truth, I could have had another update, as the wheels finally arrived. Unfortunately as I'm now debating between the 'intended' wheels, and another set of wheels (which I ordered a couple days ago). Once I receive the "other" wheels, I will see how each looks, and then decide which set goes on the Phoenix, and which goes on the Gatekeeper. Almost forgot...yes, I purchased a Gatekeeper Builder's Kit, skiing with an Enduro IFS Conversion Kit...but, that's for another/different thread. For now, time to start building a Tamiya TD4 Super Avante.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
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Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Build is looking good Panther! I'm diggin those driveshafts, but man what a wait!

What servo horn did you wind up using for the micros? It looks like a stock plastic one drilled for the 3mm bolt? I starting mocking this up last night and found my aluminum ones way to short. Thinking the stock/drilled may be the solution.

Any news on your receiver/box? Starting to look at that also.
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

I use a Reef's 99 for OD in my Phoenix with the Reef's aluminum servo arm that is decent length (I don't know the actual length) but I wonder if it fits on the NSDRC servo???
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Lashlee, you are correct! The reefs micro 25t should be a direct fit. I’ve ordered a couple to try out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Any news on your receiver/box? Starting to look at that also.

As I mentioned in your thread, due to a temporary change in my work schedule, I won't be able to find out until Monday afternoon at the earliest.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Today, I have an incredibly quick...and very minor...update. well I don't expect to be driving my Phoenix through water, one never knows when such might happen. As such (and, as I'm certain many others will agree), the best course of action is to place the Rx inside a waterproof receiver box. Obviously, the 'fuel cell' doesn't qualify as "waterproof"...although, it's can be made to be waterproofed, if necessary. Personally, I prefer to go the 'easier' route...buying a waterproof receiver box...which is also the smarter route, as it will also allow easier access whenever needed/wanted.

Anyway...getting back 'on track'...the Rx box I picked up is the Traxxas 3628. It's one of the better designs, as well as one of the most compact. Additionally, it's one of their receiver boxes that doesn't have a "vehicle specific" design - it can be used in a wide variety of vehicles, including non praxis vehicles. I've even used it in some boats. As you can see, from the photos below, it's easily fits on the passenger side sideboard, in front of the battery tray.

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For those (like myself) who plan on cutting down the battery tray (ex. If you only plan on using 'shorty' packs), you can place the Rx box as far forward, or as far rear words, as you'd like. As for it's exact placement in my phoenix, I don't yet know, is that will depend on what works best for all wires going into the receiver. Finally, as for actual installation, my plan (which could change) is to insert a screws from the bottom, and secure with Nylock nuts from the top.

Quick add-on before posting. As I was finishing up typing this, a package was just delivered - the wheels for the Phoenix - but, I will save them for another update, as I have not yet received (or ordered) the tires. One thing I promise...these wheels area bit "special". Stay tuned.........


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
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Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Panther6834,

Just got a Phoenix & eyed the fuel cell to stow the receiver. That is until I saw this thread.

Great idea re: Traxxas 3628 water proof receiver box. I’m borrowing your idea.

[emoji106][emoji106]

Thank you,

-RNO
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Panther6834,

Just got a Phoenix & eyed the fuel cell to stow the receiver. That is until I saw this thread.

Great idea re: Traxxas 3628 water proof receiver box. I’m borrowing your idea.

[emoji106][emoji106]

Thank you,

-RNO
Most welcome. That's why all these build threats are here - to help others. Just as I've helped others, even more 'others' have helped me. We all learn from each other...those who are new to the hobby, as well as those who've been into RC for 40+ years.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Time for an update...you might call it a very "shocking" update.

As already covered, I'm using the 'Pro' axles on the Phoenix, and saving the Phoenix portal axles & shocks for some future build, thus the stock shocks were too short. In going with the standard Traxxas GTS shocks, they, too, were to short. Hearing about the TRX4 'Long Arm' version of the GTS shocks, I thought they might work...tho, the 30mm longer length worried me. So, I came up with the idea of "mixing up" the 'Long Arm' & 'standard' versions. Before ordering the 'Long Arm' shocks, I attempted to calculate extended & compressed lengths of all 4 body/shaft combinations (standard/standard, standard/long, long/standard, & long/long), based on lengths reported by others (which, as we all know, isn't exactly accurate).

Anyway, after receiving the 'Long Arm' GTS shocks, I discovered I was right about them being too long - fully compressed (with the 9.4mm limiters) put the rear-upper links parallel to the ground. So...time to mix them shocks up...call it "shock shake 'n bake", if you will. Initially, I want sure which (standard/long, or long/standard) combo would work best...but, in mixing them up, I discovered something 'interesting'.

Installing the standard shafts into the long bodies came up 110mm extended, 86.5mm compressed, which seems perfect for all four corners. The other combo (standard body, long shaft) not only produced a shock that compressed too short, but the piston was hitting the cap...NOT good. I tried it again, this time adding the 9.4mm limiter. This was not better (piston no longer hit the cap), but the compressed length was 0.5mm shorter than the other combo. That's when I came up with another idea - grind off 0.5mm of the limiters. In the end, all four shocks have extended lengths of 110mm (which is perfect with the straight axles), while the front (standard body, long shaft w/ 8.9mm limiters) compresses to a length 1mm shorter (85.5mm vs 86.5mm) than the rear (long body, standard shaft).

Haven't filled them with oil...but, after test fitting them (without springs), I removed them (to take this photo, for everyone else's viewing pleasure), before filling & reinstalling. That's it for this episode...now, back to getting some work done on the Gatekeeper.
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~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

Oops...almost forgot to include this photo, showing the front (left) & rear (right) fully compressed.
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~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
Re: The Panther & The Phoenix: Who needs 'Cat & Mouse', when the Black Cat can play

I know it's been a little over 1.5 months since the last update...but, e primary reasons did that have been 1) I've been EXTREMELY busy with work since returning home from a family medical emergency (sounds much better than what it truly was - miss ya mom...Happy Mother's Day, wherever you are (hopefully, looking down in me from "up above")), and 2) I've been waiting for what this update is about - the body.

That's right...the body is finally finished (actually, it was finished a month ago...but, due to work, I couldn't pick it up until today)...and, it is AMAZING. A HUGE 'shout out' to RC Patina Guy for a beyond-incredibly paint job. The only direction I gave him was the primary color, and that I wanted it to look "like a well-taken-care-of late 60s Toyota FJ40". Without further adu, here is "the body":

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Even the windows look like 50+ year-old glass. Also, you'll easily notice (in the third photo) that I removed (prior to the body being painted) the 'toolbox'. As for "why", that will be covered in a future update. Until the next update..........


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
 
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