Squid'nserts and Tusks, tyre "crumpling"?

[m4inbrain]

Hey there.

Bought myself a set of 4.75 Tusks, as well as the 1.9x113mm Squid'nsert anti-foams. Because i'm impatient and this is a new crawler, i wanted to shake it down before actually being trail ready, but alas, a problem arose.

Easier to show, here's the issue.

It's a VRD Carbon underneath, so the front is noticeably overdriven, which i assume is the issue here? These are the correct foams for the tyre, not quite sure how to fix this. The car's stationary in that picture, that's how the front wheels are now unless i "massage" them back into shape.

What did i do wrong? Any help/pointers appreciated.

 

[bmxbryant09]

Did you vent the tires? I have a stance and would roll the tires like that before I vented them.

 

[m4inbrain]

Did you vent the tires? I have a stance and would roll the tires like that before I vented them.

......

Okay listen. This stays between us, alright?

No, the tyres aren't vented, and i don't believe the rims are either (Boom Racing Probuild). Just.. shhhh. I haven't forgotten to vent them, i just, well - oh look, there's a plane.

 

[ferp420]

ether your inner bead is slipping or your outer bead is slipping in the beadlock
or both
a few dabs of superglue stop that from happening not enuff to make it hard to get off but 4or 5 drops around the bead let it dry then clamp it down im sure there are alot of fixes for that but thats just the way i do it

 

[m4inbrain]

ether your inner bead is slipping or your outer bead is slipping in the beadlock
or both
a few dabs of superglue stop that from happening not enuff to make it hard to get off but 4or 5 drops around the bead let it dry then clamp it down im sure there are alot of fixes for that but thats just the way i do it

Not sure about the inner bead, but the outer bead is not slipping as far as i can tell.

They have to come apart either way because i want to vent them, so i'll have a look towards that, cheers.

 

[89Industries]

My last set of squid'serts were too large on the I.D. so they spun on the wheel doing what you are seeing.

I put a few wraps of hockey tape around the ring but still did it.

Got different inserts that fit right and all good.

Super glue like mentioned seems like it might work but I tend to have super glue be permanent when you don't want it, and come apart when you want it to be permanent.

 

[m4inbrain]

My last set of squid'serts were too large on the I.D. so they spun on the wheel doing what you are seeing.

I put a few wraps of hockey tape around the ring but still did it.

Got different inserts that fit right and all good.

Super glue like mentioned seems like it might work but I tend to have super glue be permanent when you don't want it, and come apart when you want it to be permanent.

That could be a possibility, too. Which would suck, for obvious reasons. The lock ring did slide in rather easy.

I'll have a looksie, cheers.

 

[bgredjeep]

It'll still happen to an extent with the tires vented due to the amount of underdrive in the carbon drivetrain. Soft tires, the front axle dragging the rear (40% od), that's just how it is. It won't stay like that once vented, but it'll still wrinkle a lot on high traction surfaces.

 

[89Industries]

That could be a possibility, too. Which would suck, for obvious reasons. The lock ring did slide in rather easy.

I'll have a looksie, cheers.

To be fair my rings could be undersize vs the inserts being oversized. Not really a standard dimension to my knowledge and I definitely run cheaper Asian steel wheels on the truck.

The other issue I had with the loose insert is that the inserts slid to the inside quite a bit making it look like I had standard soft foams and was constantly getting the sidehilling tire roll. All the way around the wheel and it didn't go back to center. So I'd stop and readjust my tires by hand several times.

I did have my wheels vented and was using quite thin, soft and sticky VP geolander tires.

 

[Col_Sanders]

Venting definitely helps. With most 3d printed inserts, I not only vent the tread area of the tire, but also vent a couple small holes on the inner sidewall of the tire. That way you get better air flow. If I did not drive through water, I'd just vent the sidewall.

The last couple sets of Squids I got were a little loose on the ring too. Not bad enough to bother me though.

 

[JimrC]

Venting definitely helps. With most 3d printed inserts, I not only vent the tread area of the tire, but also vent a couple small holes on the inner sidewall of the tire. That way you get better air flow. If I did not drive through water, I'd just vent the sidewall.

The last couple sets of Squids I got were a little loose on the ring too. Not bad enough to bother me though.

Never used 3D inserts personally but from what I see online, it seems to be a known issue? Is this tire issue just related to 3D inserts, or certain combo's of tires/inserts?

 

[Col_Sanders]

The twist? Non vented tires with foams do that too. On most 3d printed inserts, the outer layer is solid. Since it touches the carcass of the tire, air does not flow as well as it would with a porous foam. Venting on the sidewall lets air flow freely. The 3 Brothers V2 Antifoams are a honeycomb design and dont have that problem, but they are a bit stiffer than I like for my lightweight trucks.

As for fitment on the inner ring, some 3d printed inserts (the newer squids for instance) have a very stiff inner ring and are hard to stretch. Guessing he adjusted the tolerances a tiny bit to make installation more forgiving for certain wheels? Or maybe it is just a tolerance stacking problem.

The Squid inserts on my 4.19 Tusks move a tiny bit left to right. A bit of grip tape or E6000 would stop that, but they're mounted on Shift Maverick wheels with scale hardware and it doesn't bother me enough to break them down again.

 

[JimrC]

yeah, the funky looking twist on the sidewalls. Haven't tried them myself so interesting post ... cheers

 

[1fox2go]

IF you want to be lazy, you could heat up a paper clip with a lighter and stab 4 holes in the tires at 12,3,6,and 9 oclock

 

[Col_Sanders]

IF you want to be lazy, you could heat up a paper clip with a lighter and stab 4 holes in the tires at 12,3,6,and 9 oclock

On a fairly recent Harley Designs video, I saw him vent some tires with scissors. 10+ years ago that was acceptable, but not now. Leather punches are cheap. I guess if you dont want to go through the effort of removing the tires, the paper clip method would at least better than a hack job with scissors.

 

[m4inbrain]

Hey, apologies for not responding for a while. Did vent one wheel, didn't improve.

Turns out, yeah.. there's a lot of play between lock ring and insert. Like, a lot. I'd hazard a guess and say around 2mm, or 1mm in diameter. These aren't chinesium wheels, at least i wouldn't expect them to be at the price (Boom Racing Probuild).

Rather disappointed considering how much i paid for the inserts (shipping was $55.. sigh). Well.

Guess i'll go through a few suggestions, while trying my own first. I've got some foam drift tyre tape here, that might do something. If not.. I guess E6000 it is, but would quite obviously prefer a less permanent solution.

Didn't know that this was a big issue.

edit: well, drift tape didn't work either, same issue. Tyres are now vented, too, and i'm 100% certain it's the lock ring rotating, because to "uncrumple" the tyre, i just rotate the rubber backwards by hand. The outer bead is solid as can be. I'm just not quite sure how to superglue the lock ring in place, considering there's so much play. I can centre it while having the wheel sit upright, but then there's a gap of 2mm between lock ring and the insert on the top side. If i put it on the side, the lock ring just falls out, basically, with no way to locate it properly on the insert.

Only option i can think of is to use some kind of slow setting glue, smother ring and insert in it, assemble the wheel and let it cure while hoping for the best. Downside of course is that if it doesn't work, at the very least the lock ring is ruined, as well as potentially the inserts.

 

[Col_Sanders]

Thats a pretty big difference. I'm running 3 sets of his inserts right now. One set is on Shift Mavericks and 2 sets on Locked Up wheels. They are not loose like that. The one set I have that does move side to side takes a bit of effort. Do you have another set of wheels to try so you can see if the main problem is the inserts or wheels?

 

[m4inbrain]

Thats a pretty big difference. I'm running 3 sets of his inserts right now. One set is on Shift Mavericks and 2 sets on Locked Up wheels. They are not loose like that. The one set I have that does move side to side takes a bit of effort. Do you have another set of wheels to try so you can see if the main problem is the inserts or wheels?

Sadly not, no. The only other crawler i got left here is a TRX4 on stock rims, they're glued i'm reasonably sure.

And yeah, it's so loose it'd fall out on its own if the tyre wouldn't stop it.

These are the wheels:

ProBuild™ 1.9

Shop #BRPB085MBKBZ ProBuild™ 1.9

www.boomracing.com

No clue, i'll be honest.
edit: waiting on YT to process, uploaded a short.
edit2:

Was a bit of a faff trying to get a video of it, apologies. Does show how much it moves though, and how easy it slides from side to side.

 

[89Industries]

I had similar looseness on 1 set of squids too. Though more like 1mm total. If I remember correctly the ring was 55mm, insert was 56mm-ish. It was loose. Tighter with a few wraps of hockey tape, but not right.

I made my own inserts after this issue and made the id 54mm to get a tight fit.

I have at least two, maybe 3 other sets of the Squid'nserts and they all fit snug and didn't have any issues.

You might that to contact the maker before gluing or otherwise altering the inserts though. He's likely make it right if it's that far off.

 

[m4inbrain]

Yeah the tyre foam didn't work either, sadly. I do have a P1S, maybe i should be looking into printing my own as well.

That said, yeah, did fire Squid'nserts a message through their contact form, we'll see how that goes.