Novak Crawler Review/ Tech thread

[Thorsteenster]

nah, that would be like a car company doing a recall because of programing to cause a car to suddenly go backwards when its in neutral to reprogram the chip. novaks a good company with a good rep, ben around for ever, i'd be surprised if they didnt offer an exchange for the revision, especially when its a "crawler" system with traits very undesirable to crawlers

 

[Crawln Coles]

what if you run a different ESC. I have a SS+. And it say on Novak's page that the ESC is compatable with the crawler motor for "non crawling application" http://www.teamnovak.com/products/brushless/crawler_system/index.html it doesn't have LR detection, and it has four different parameters to adjust drag brake. I might have to try it out.

 

[The Muscle]

It may work. I have the novak ss 5800 in my t4 and there is very little drag brake. I have the HV Maxx in my TXT and there is very ittle drag brake, so i have to concisely use the trigger brake on downhills and throttle on uphills. I can hold it still on uphill with no ill effects. ie no locked rotor.
but no drag brake either.

 

[MattH]

Try Novak's sintered rotor; it will improve drag brake and torque. It won't be a huge difference, but it will help. Also, when Novak programmed the locked-rotor detection on the crawler system, they bumped up the detection speed as much as possible. So, at really low trigger input, it will (or should) not work against you.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Also, when Novak programmed the locked-rotor detection on the crawler system, they bumped up the detection speed as much as possible. So, at really low trigger input, it will (or should) not work against you.

But I can tell you that it does kick in, even at the lowest throttle inputs possible.

 

[dezfan]

But I can tell you that it does kick in, even at the lowest throttle inputs possible.

I was there and witnessed it's performance. It is worthless as a comp level ESC in it's current configuration.

 

[microgoat]

During testing, the only time LR would kick in was when I'd get it stuck, and stuck good. It never kicked in for me during my testing. I can't tell you how many parts that thing broke, but at least one steel dogbone fell victim to it.

I really hope they can fix that. The system is so good otherwise.

 

[MattH]

I was there and witnessed it's performance. It is worthless as a comp level ESC in it's current configuration.

Maybe so. I used it in a comp and the weak drag brake and locked-rotor detection didn't hurt me at all. I think Novak knows the majority of these will be in the use on non-competitive crawlers. The locked-rotor detection (which I am not a fan of) prevents a lot of broken parts, and that's a good thing for this product's intended audience. Who knows, maybe Novak will release a comp-specific crawler system if the market gets big enough. Right now, this system is a great choice. It's not the only choice, but it is a very good option for the vast majority of crawlers.

 

[dezfan]

Maybe so. I used it in a comp and the weak drag brake and locked-rotor detection didn't hurt me at all. I think Novak knows the majority of these will be in the use on non-competitive crawlers. The locked-rotor detection (which I am not a fan of) prevents a lot of broken parts, and that's a good thing for this product's intended audience. Who knows, maybe Novak will release a comp-specific crawler system if the market gets big enough. Right now, this system is a great choice. It's not the only choice, but it is a very good option for the vast majority of crawlers.

I agree, that's why I stated that it is worthless as a COMP worthy ESC.

 

[microgoat]

Maybe add a "comp profile" that defeats the LR?

I'm not sure if the LR is designed to protect your crawler, or the rotor. If the rotor shaft is locked, it's possible to frag the rotor by applying power to the field coils, especially with the standard bonded rotor.

I'm using the sintered rotor, and while the brakes are better, it's still nowhere near what an outrunner can do. Different technology, and there are good and bad points to each.

 

[MattH]

I agree, that's why I stated that it is worthless as a COMP worthy ESC.

I personally wouldn't go as far as to say "worthless." I used it in a comp, and will keep using it for now. In my opinion, it has a few advantages over the other brushless systems often used for crawling. It does have two disadvantages (weak drag brakes and LR det.), but that always seems to be the case in crawling.

 

[dezfan]

Maybe add a "comp profile" that defeats the LR?

I'm not sure if the LR is designed to protect your crawler, or the rotor. If the rotor shaft is locked, it's possible to frag the rotor by applying power to the field coils, especially with the standard bonded rotor.

I'm using the sintered rotor, and while the brakes are better, it's still nowhere near what an outrunner can do. Different technology, and there are good and bad points to each.

Goat, IYO is it a programming isssue, or a design issue?

If it's a programming issue, then that might be the answer!

 

[MattH]

Maybe add a "comp profile" that defeats the LR?

I'm not sure if the LR is designed to protect your crawler, or the rotor. If the rotor shaft is locked, it's possible to frag the rotor by applying power to the field coils, especially with the standard bonded rotor.

I'm using the sintered rotor, and while the brakes are better, it's still nowhere near what an outrunner can do. Different technology, and there are good and bad points to each.

I think you're right on the money. It has no where near the drag brakes that an outrunner style brushless does. The sintered rotor only boosts the performance. Also, Novak is helping crawling a lot by having this product out there. I know that's not their intention, but having a real mainstream company advertising a crawling product is a good thing. On top of that, it is a really high quality product that will be on the shleves of a lot of hobby stores.

 

[dezfan]

I personally wouldn't go as far as to say "worthless." I used it in a comp, and will keep using it for now. In my opinion, it has a few advantages over the other brushless systems often used for crawling. It does have two disadvantages (weak drag brakes and LR det.), but that always seems to be the case in crawling.

Seeing how I don't own one, I won't totally disagree w/ you.

I watched Johnrob "try" to compete it his Novak set up and it was a failure from I witnessed.

I hope that the Novak system can be used as a competition level set up and I think it's great to see them in the crawler market. I just think that their lack of experience in this area might be showing a bit. I have total faith that it will be resolved.

Matt, IYO, what are it's competitive advantages over say a Mamba/Quark - Revolver setup?

 

[Rockpiledriver]

intended audience.

What's that?

It's billed as a rockcrawling specific motor. Not a general basher motor.

IMO. Once these problems are fixed, It will not only be good for bashing, but for competing also.

Why wouldn't Novak want that? They will sell far more systems. ;-)

 

[Rockpiledriver]

Goat, IYO is it a programming isssue, or a design issue?

If it's a programming issue, then that might be the answer!

I've got one better for ya. In NOVAK'S opinion it is a programming issue. "thumbsup"

 

[MattH]

Matt, IYO, what are it's competitive advantages over say a Mamba/Quark - Revolver setup?

I don't know if I'd say it has any competitive advantages. Well, maybe I would. It has a very small deadband; it has very precise control at low throttle input; it's extemely reliable; it's smooth as can be; it's very consistent and isn't quirky at all. Is the Novak system the best choice for competitive crawling? No, and I don't believe it's intented to be that, either. it's a very good system, and unless you compete (and the majority don't), it's an excellent choice. I also like that it has some decent speed (not fast), but faster than my old brushed setup.

 

[MattH]

What's that?

It's billed as a rockcrawling specific motor. Not a general basher motor.

IMO. Once these problems are fixed, It will not only be good for bashing, but for competing also.

Why wouldn't Novak want that? They will sell far more systems. ;-)

I just mean that not everyone who is into rock crawling (and wants crawling specific stuff) is into competitions.

 

[Rockpiledriver]

I just mean that not everyone who is into rock crawling (and wants crawling specific stuff) is into competitions.

Right, and I totally agree. But as it is now it's really not that great for comps.
If it's fixed so that it is, it will work better for the general crawler too.

Thus, sell more units. Mabey a bunch more because its a true all around crawling package.

Edit: The LR issue where the rig goes careening down a hill, breaking who knows what, isn't good for anyone, and I think this is why many people won't use it.

 

[dezfan]

I don't know if I'd say it has any competitive advantages. Well, maybe I would. It has a very small deadband; it has very precise control at low throttle input; it's extemely reliable; it's smooth as can be; it's very consistent and isn't quirky at all. Is the Novak system the best choice for competitive crawling? No, and I don't believe it's intented to be that, either. it's a very good system, and unless you compete (and the majority don't), it's an excellent choice. I also like that it has some decent speed (not fast), but faster than my old brushed setup.

I experienced similar characteristics from my Mamba - Revolver set up.

Smooth and precise throttle control w/ very little cogging. It's wheel speed was also greater that my TR2 - Lathe set up w/ the same gearing.

It isn't as fast as the Novak system for sure and that is an area that Novak needs to address to make it comp worthy IMO.

And if Novak is going to market it as a "crawler" specific ESC it should be comp worthy. Even if the majority don't compete. Many potential users do.