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HB Rover Review
- Thread starter rojo
- Start date
GaBronco
Rock Crawler
I would check with Corey at RPP Hobby, thats where i got mine and they were cheaper than CKRC.
Jesse Robbers
Pebble Pounder
Hello everyone, I have read and picked up on a good amount of good information in this thread concerning this tire's handling or traits that is helpful as I designed this tire for HB. Rojo, thanks for staring this thread with your review. After someone pointed it out, I do agree that in the picture of your truck that has all four Rover tires installed on it, the tires on the left side does not match the orientation of the tires on the right side of your truck. Now there isn't a big difference to the appearance of the tread to running the tires one direction or the other, but it might matter and you may want to flip the tires on one side of the truck around to match.
If you're not familiar with who I am, I am a 1/10 and 1/8 electric and nitro off-road car racer for Hot Bodies who also sort of does some extra part time type work designing tires or some parts/wheels for them. I do not have any rock crawling experience or knowledge of the class. I do want to learn more about it (more so technically) to be able to bring a better level of product(s) to the people that enjoy this class of competition. I am considering getting a rock crawler to mess around with just to learn more about it and see things first hand of what works and what doesn't to be able to improve upon things in the future.
HB did decide to include the small foam inserts with this tire to per Thad Garner and John Schultz's testing, they both preferred to have the air gap present...or at least the air gap to be the size that it is. So maybe give the stock foams a shot, if they don't work, then they don't work for what you got going on with your driving style, truck, or course conditions, or maybe they don't work at all.
I have a lot of questions and hope you all don't mind taking a bit of time to answer them.
Some "negative traits" about the HB Rover tire that I have read in here and would like to learn and improve from for the future is that the tire "wraps up" or "wads up". I'm not famaliar with this term. Does this mean that the sidewall is wrinkling like a drag strip car does when it launches off the line? Is it the carcass underneath the tread (center portion of the tire) being too flexible and wrinkling too much? Sort of like if the tire took a shape as if it rolled over a triangle shaped object when the tire was on a flat surface under acceleration and a hard load. Or maybe something else? Can someone explain this term to me please? Thanks!
With the front tires folding over bad while hard turning, would a better/firmer foam setup or the tire providing more lateral/sideways support be the better fix for this while not giving up much of anything else on the tire's performance in other conditions?
Also I read where one person experienced that the white/soft compound did not work as well on cold rocks. Is this a common problem on cold rocks that going to a softer compound within the same tire manufacturer would fix? Or does this seem to be something specific to the HB tire and/or compound?
Does everyone feel that the tire carcass has a good flexibility underneath the tread or would they like to see it maybe stiffer or softer? The same question about the sidewall flexibility? Would you like to see the tire carcass or sidewall be able to be or act stiffer in one direction while being able to remain more flexible in another direction? If yes, which directions would you like to have it stiffer or softer.
Has anyone compared running all four tires (could be any brand tire) in one direction vs. running them the opposite direction? Or maybe tried running the fronts one direction and the rears the opposite direction? What did this do differently and which type of tires did you try this with?
How does everyone feel on the density of the tread/space between each lug of the tread? Good as is? Maybe better if lugs are closer or further apart? Or maybe better if lugs kept same gap on width of tire but gap between the rows of lugs was changed? Or vise versa?
That does it for now, looking forward to hear people's thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Jesse
If you're not familiar with who I am, I am a 1/10 and 1/8 electric and nitro off-road car racer for Hot Bodies who also sort of does some extra part time type work designing tires or some parts/wheels for them. I do not have any rock crawling experience or knowledge of the class. I do want to learn more about it (more so technically) to be able to bring a better level of product(s) to the people that enjoy this class of competition. I am considering getting a rock crawler to mess around with just to learn more about it and see things first hand of what works and what doesn't to be able to improve upon things in the future.
HB did decide to include the small foam inserts with this tire to per Thad Garner and John Schultz's testing, they both preferred to have the air gap present...or at least the air gap to be the size that it is. So maybe give the stock foams a shot, if they don't work, then they don't work for what you got going on with your driving style, truck, or course conditions, or maybe they don't work at all.
I have a lot of questions and hope you all don't mind taking a bit of time to answer them.
Some "negative traits" about the HB Rover tire that I have read in here and would like to learn and improve from for the future is that the tire "wraps up" or "wads up". I'm not famaliar with this term. Does this mean that the sidewall is wrinkling like a drag strip car does when it launches off the line? Is it the carcass underneath the tread (center portion of the tire) being too flexible and wrinkling too much? Sort of like if the tire took a shape as if it rolled over a triangle shaped object when the tire was on a flat surface under acceleration and a hard load. Or maybe something else? Can someone explain this term to me please? Thanks!
With the front tires folding over bad while hard turning, would a better/firmer foam setup or the tire providing more lateral/sideways support be the better fix for this while not giving up much of anything else on the tire's performance in other conditions?
Also I read where one person experienced that the white/soft compound did not work as well on cold rocks. Is this a common problem on cold rocks that going to a softer compound within the same tire manufacturer would fix? Or does this seem to be something specific to the HB tire and/or compound?
Does everyone feel that the tire carcass has a good flexibility underneath the tread or would they like to see it maybe stiffer or softer? The same question about the sidewall flexibility? Would you like to see the tire carcass or sidewall be able to be or act stiffer in one direction while being able to remain more flexible in another direction? If yes, which directions would you like to have it stiffer or softer.
Has anyone compared running all four tires (could be any brand tire) in one direction vs. running them the opposite direction? Or maybe tried running the fronts one direction and the rears the opposite direction? What did this do differently and which type of tires did you try this with?
How does everyone feel on the density of the tread/space between each lug of the tread? Good as is? Maybe better if lugs are closer or further apart? Or maybe better if lugs kept same gap on width of tire but gap between the rows of lugs was changed? Or vise versa?
That does it for now, looking forward to hear people's thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Jesse
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Yes I would describe the wadding up as similar to what you see on a
drag slick only more extreme. For me this is happening running over or onto cracks or holes causing the tire to become wedged in and stuck. This is on rough, jagged rock. On smoother large rock the wrinkles are not as large, the tire is just hooking up and conforming to the surface. I think that is where the tires will perform the best. As in any type of racing, full size or in scale you are not going to be able to use the same tire everywhere and changing these too much to work in more varied conditions might be a bad thing.
Steve
drag slick only more extreme. For me this is happening running over or onto cracks or holes causing the tire to become wedged in and stuck. This is on rough, jagged rock. On smoother large rock the wrinkles are not as large, the tire is just hooking up and conforming to the surface. I think that is where the tires will perform the best. As in any type of racing, full size or in scale you are not going to be able to use the same tire everywhere and changing these too much to work in more varied conditions might be a bad thing.
Steve
The only thing I was upset about was the 5.5in Tall... More like 5in or 5.25in... I'd like to see them made in the size they are. And two other sizes. A 5.8in Tall 2.2 and a Super Class Tire. The Super Class needs one really bad...
This is Mine... They have 6in Tall Memory Foams and the Weather was about 55* a little on the cold side. So the foams are not working the best they should.
Jesse Robbers
Pebble Pounder
double post
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Harvo
I wanna be Dave
The only thing I was upset about was the 5.5in Tall... More like 5in or 5.25in... I'd like to see them made in the size they are. And two other sizes. A 5.8in Tall 2.2 and a Super Class Tire. The Super Class needs one really bad...
This is Mine... They have 6in Tall Memory Foams and the Weather was about 55* a little on the cold side. So the foams are not working the best they should.
Your foam setup looks pretty stiff in the video. My rear was set up like that with double memory foams, and I couldn't get a bite. They spun and bounced off rocks. I will be trying softer foam now. I also tried (accidently) running the tread backward. It didn't hook as well as the other guys who's tread was the other direcion.
Like I said... It was too Cold for those Foams. When it's Cold out. A lot of Memory Foams get Hard and Stiff. This is a Climb My Molanders wouldn't do even when the weather is a lot warmer. 5-3/4 foams might be better. But even with the foams I have now. I only get 5.25in height. Not the 5.5in they labeled as.
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Trugg
Rock Crawler
Nice setup... I'd say they look pretty darn good to me, especially for being cold8)
The correct foam setup makes all the difference in the world."thumbsup"
GaBronco
Rock Crawler
The wadding up has to nothing to do with a bad design of the tire, its simply not getting enough support from the foam setup. (the stockers for me) A taller/more dense foam would prevent this. Great tire that i dont think i would change much about, dont mess with a good thing!
Jesse Robbers
Pebble Pounder
double post
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Jesse Robbers
Pebble Pounder
vegaracer....I'm with you 100% on not being able to make a tire that is the best everywhere, it's not going to happen. For the problem you experienced in cracks or holes, I think I understand what the tire is doing from your description. For that situation it sounds like you need a tire with a smaller slip angle and is good info to know if HB decides to make a tire targetted more towards that situation in the future. Slip angle's name is deceiving, it has nothing to do with how much a tire slips or slides and should be called something like tire twist angle. Basically it means how much the tire/wheel is allowed to rotate/twist (as if the wheel rotated around the kingpin) in relation to the contact patch before the contact patch starts to lose grip.
run2jeepn.....Thanks for the input. If I understand you correctly on the HB tire size, it sounds like HB claims their tire is 5.5" in size but the tires you have are smaller than this, right? I just checked the Rover model file and if measured from the top of the tread, the tire should be at or very close to the claimed/advertised size by HB. Now molded parts (plastic parts, tires, cast parts, etc..) all deform/distort, and change shape and dimension/size a bit after ejected from the mold. The material used usually plays the biggest role in how much of this happens. With tires, they usualy retain all or a very large percentage of their original size and shape....but like pretty much everything out there, the rubber can shrink a little bit when it cools after being molded. Usually it is just the bead area and lower sidewall area on tires that might be effected as they under go the most stress/stretch when pulled from the mold. I'll have to wait until they are in stock on HB's site to get some for myself.
For the super class tires....what makes these tires different? Is there a different set of rules? Does the trucks have a different weight or power that works better on different tires? Can you give me a link or organization name for the rules tat everyone goes by? Thanks!
Everyone.....For rock crawler tires, once you find the best foam set-up for a particular tire and compound, do you usually change the foam or anything else with the tire from this point on for different terrain/conditions or do you leave it be?
run2jeepn.....Thanks for the input. If I understand you correctly on the HB tire size, it sounds like HB claims their tire is 5.5" in size but the tires you have are smaller than this, right? I just checked the Rover model file and if measured from the top of the tread, the tire should be at or very close to the claimed/advertised size by HB. Now molded parts (plastic parts, tires, cast parts, etc..) all deform/distort, and change shape and dimension/size a bit after ejected from the mold. The material used usually plays the biggest role in how much of this happens. With tires, they usualy retain all or a very large percentage of their original size and shape....but like pretty much everything out there, the rubber can shrink a little bit when it cools after being molded. Usually it is just the bead area and lower sidewall area on tires that might be effected as they under go the most stress/stretch when pulled from the mold. I'll have to wait until they are in stock on HB's site to get some for myself.
For the super class tires....what makes these tires different? Is there a different set of rules? Does the trucks have a different weight or power that works better on different tires? Can you give me a link or organization name for the rules tat everyone goes by? Thanks!
Everyone.....For rock crawler tires, once you find the best foam set-up for a particular tire and compound, do you usually change the foam or anything else with the tire from this point on for different terrain/conditions or do you leave it be?
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Jesse,
Welcome to RCC, I think you would get more input/hits/answers if you posted a new thread. This has gotten a little buried. BTW, The Rovers are a great tire"thumbsup" ive had really good luck just running the stock foam as is.
Welcome to RCC, I think you would get more input/hits/answers if you posted a new thread. This has gotten a little buried. BTW, The Rovers are a great tire"thumbsup" ive had really good luck just running the stock foam as is.
Hope that helps some.
rojo
Quarry Creeper
Yeah I did it on purpose. I wanted to see if they wore any different or if they had more or less traction like that. I had swaped them all around and have not really noticed any difference. they seem to be wearing well too. They keep getting better and better with a little wear from what I can tell. "thumbsup"
Welcome to the forum and to the world of RC Crawling. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding... You did a great job on these for not having much experience with rc crawling 8)
I have not run the foams yet, but I am about to put them in the rear and try them out. I prefer to use a multi stage foam so the tire is supported, but allowed to sag due to the foam density, not a gap. That is just my preference though. I am debating on wrapping the stock foam with a lower density foam to accomplish this. I will post up when i get around to trying it. Foam makes all the difference in almost any tire IMHO.
The tire sidewall and carcass of the tire seems fine to me. I really like it actually. The foam will make the difference in how it preforms. my front tires do fold over on hard turns when sidehilling with the All-weather foams in the front. However the tire does not slip near as soon a some Losi's and Panthers I have run. If it folder over and lost traction I would be concerned, but since it hols for me I have no complaints. like I said it can all be tuned with foams. HB may look into offering differnt foams for the tires than can be bought seperately or package options with the tires. Cold weather regular foam seems to work the best. When it is warm memory foams are nice. I am however making the change back to regular foams now year-round. I just like them better. using multiple densities of foam in a insert will be the ticket i think. NWTT Foams were the first like this that you didn't have to custom make. More options would be welcome there in my opinion.
In my experience with the tires (in the South East) is that they do as good or better than anything else I have ran on cold and or damp rocks. I think foam makes more of a difference when temp changes than tire compound.
I have not noticed any performance differences with the direction of the tire. I have also not seem any ab-normal wear from running them either way. The tire seems to have a lot of different biting surfaces in all directions. That is just good design... and one of the reasons I like the tires.
As far as lug spacing there are so many factors it is hard to tell a difference without a lot of controlled environment testing. Biting edges (tread design) and the ability of the tires lugs to stand up and not fold over (rubber compound) are key. As is siping and groving of the lugs for additional biting edges and flexability with creates friction between the tire and running surface which creates traction.
these are just my opinions, but maybe they will help some. "thumbsup"
wrightcs77
RCC Addict
I finally got a chance to run my HB tires. Here is my quick review.
Berg axles, 4.0 chassis, VP DH rims, stock foams, 3C lipo and 35T HH motors.
Temps where cold, about 32*. Because of this, my shock oil was a little too thick.
First I ran a little weaker pack (a no name 1500) to get a feel for the tires. I was running 2 weights in the front tires and no weight in the rears. This set up weighs in at 5 lbs 5 oz. The tires worked well. The suspension was on the stiff side, but still drivable. The tires turned very well, held a line great and did not need a lot of wheel speed to get over some spots that I had to use wheel speed in testing with different tires (and warmer temps). They seemed to like slow to medium wheel speed. They did not show any signs of doing any weird grabbing or hopping at high wheel speeds.
For my second pack I ran a nicer MaxAmps 2100 and added some weight to the wheels to counteract the thicker oil. I went with all 6 weights in each front tire and 3 weights in each rear. This brought my total rig weight to about 6 lbs 6 oz (battery is slightly heavier, too). With this set up, the rig flat out crawls. I made numerous lines I have never made before, no matter the temp or tires. It loved to eat up verts and side hilled great. They do fold over some, but seem to hold their line VERY well. That is what impressed me the most, is their ability to hold a line. When using front dig, I was able to turn sharper using very little throttle as the rear tires seemed to grip better than others while dragging the rear.
The only downfall I can really find is that when they fall into a hole, you are screwed. I guess I should not say always, but they seemed to get bound up in holes easier than my Losi's, but about the same as my Panthers with softer foams. I have not ran my Panthers with the full Axial foams yet.
It will be interesting to see what people end up with foams for these, I was very impressed with the stock foams.
Berg axles, 4.0 chassis, VP DH rims, stock foams, 3C lipo and 35T HH motors.
Temps where cold, about 32*. Because of this, my shock oil was a little too thick.
First I ran a little weaker pack (a no name 1500) to get a feel for the tires. I was running 2 weights in the front tires and no weight in the rears. This set up weighs in at 5 lbs 5 oz. The tires worked well. The suspension was on the stiff side, but still drivable. The tires turned very well, held a line great and did not need a lot of wheel speed to get over some spots that I had to use wheel speed in testing with different tires (and warmer temps). They seemed to like slow to medium wheel speed. They did not show any signs of doing any weird grabbing or hopping at high wheel speeds.
For my second pack I ran a nicer MaxAmps 2100 and added some weight to the wheels to counteract the thicker oil. I went with all 6 weights in each front tire and 3 weights in each rear. This brought my total rig weight to about 6 lbs 6 oz (battery is slightly heavier, too). With this set up, the rig flat out crawls. I made numerous lines I have never made before, no matter the temp or tires. It loved to eat up verts and side hilled great. They do fold over some, but seem to hold their line VERY well. That is what impressed me the most, is their ability to hold a line. When using front dig, I was able to turn sharper using very little throttle as the rear tires seemed to grip better than others while dragging the rear.
The only downfall I can really find is that when they fall into a hole, you are screwed. I guess I should not say always, but they seemed to get bound up in holes easier than my Losi's, but about the same as my Panthers with softer foams. I have not ran my Panthers with the full Axial foams yet.
It will be interesting to see what people end up with foams for these, I was very impressed with the stock foams.
yukon635
RCC Addict
everything said here has been spot on with what I have found.
The stock foams are too soft but with a stock proline or axial foam cut right, there is no air gap. The NWTT foams work great in them too (I prefer the NWTT #5 REACH)
The stock foams are too soft but with a stock proline or axial foam cut right, there is no air gap. The NWTT foams work great in them too (I prefer the NWTT #5 REACH)
Harvo
I wanna be Dave
My first use was with double proline mems in 40ish degree weather and the foams were way too stiff. Tread direction was apparently backwards as well.:roll:... Now I am using stock foams with some thin (proprietary) foam to fill the air gap. The tires are working much better now. The stock foams really do work pretty well. I'd like to see how stock Axial foams would do.
EDIT: After more testing yesterday....
On grippy rock like course granite, the tires will grip better than panthers, especially while turning and climbing at the same time. They will grab a lip on a vertical climb and pull a truck up about equally with Panthers. On rock that has any type of lichen (that thin brittle dry green stuff that comes off a rock when you rub it) the Panthers win handily. The Panthers also take the win when there is any sand or grit on the rock. It doesn't take much for the HB to spin on the sand grains where the Panthers soft compound seems to envelop each grain and grab.
These findings were from a side by side comparison on similar trucks with equal weights in all wheels over the exact same lines.
EDIT: After more testing yesterday....
On grippy rock like course granite, the tires will grip better than panthers, especially while turning and climbing at the same time. They will grab a lip on a vertical climb and pull a truck up about equally with Panthers. On rock that has any type of lichen (that thin brittle dry green stuff that comes off a rock when you rub it) the Panthers win handily. The Panthers also take the win when there is any sand or grit on the rock. It doesn't take much for the HB to spin on the sand grains where the Panthers soft compound seems to envelop each grain and grab.
These findings were from a side by side comparison on similar trucks with equal weights in all wheels over the exact same lines.
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PinchFlat
Say hello to my dactylion
You NazT... Did you give them permission to use AJs image? HEHEHE
http://www.rcplanet.com/Hot_Bodies_Rover_Crawling_Tire_HBS67772_p/hbs67772.htm
http://www.rcplanet.com/Hot_Bodies_Rover_Crawling_Tire_HBS67772_p/hbs67772.htm
