Have tech questions? Will answer.

[levo1203]

Hello can i make battery from two or four Sony vtc 5 lions? I have a 3D printed 1/8 scale crawler which is 3-4 kilograms and using 27t austar motor with 1:40 gear ratio, thanks


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[Sniper4370]

I am having a problem my motor isn't turning properly it barely spins and stops and my rc won't move is this a motor problem or a ESC probably i have pulled the motor and watched the pinnion gear and it will bare even turn a full cycle and stop then repeat over and over please help it's a vanguard 3150 kv

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What ESC are you using? Is it in brushed mode?

 

[TheLetterJ]

This will be a long read, but the same questions keep coming up for me EVERY time I'm shopping for a crawler motor.

I've been swapping motors (all HH) between cars and I think it's just time to add something different to the line up to get what I'm after. My 2.2" cars are the ones that leave me wanting more in the motor department. Primary use is technical crawling with lots of cracks that like to wedge tires. The drivetrain can handle powering out of a pretty good bind, so I want a motor than can do so. The extent of my "trailing" is limited to a 5 minute (tops) walk from a parking area to a crawl spot where I will stay for an hour or so.

It goes something like this:

The torque of the Revolver is perfect. The startup is manageable, but still isn't on par with even your "sport" line of brushed motors. Considering that I run in the confined space of my backyard (about 10-12 yards of strategically placed rocks/boulders in a 15x20 space, plenty of challenging lines even for my MOA's) almost every day, the noise is wearing me down. I'd say this one drives like a Cummins diesel, noise and all.

The Puller Pro stubby is quiet enough, but the power feels very "elastic" if you will. Meaning, it doesn't have the torque I need to get over/through obstacles without squeezing the trigger further. Once it starts moving, all those amps I was feeding it to get the torque needed, quickly turn into rpm and it leaps. That's useful in a lot of situations, but it's a little unpredictable. I prefer something with more torque so things happen in a more linear fashion. This motor is great in my 1.9" cars, but it's just not enough for the big tires... it's like a souped up Toyota 22r trying to spin 40"s, you can have wheelspeed with no torque, or gear extremely low to get torque with no wheelspeed. Can't have both without a motor that makes more power (wattage.)

The Trailmaster Sports (550 21t and 550 27t) are good all 'rounders, but start showing their weakness when I start loading them hard. Even geared very low (65:1) I can stall these guys if I get a tire in a moderate bind. The 21t (on 3s) has enough speed for my needs. Running the 27t on 4s made it better, but I feel like that's just going to burn it up if I keep pulling the trigger when it's under very high load with no speed (not necessarily bound up.)

The Crawlmaster Sport (12t) has the low speed control I desire, but suffers even more than the TMSport when loading it hard.

So with all that said, I want something different. I've never bought a high end brushed motor, but I'm starting to think that there's a good chance one could outperform brushless in my application. What I want is torque that is similar to (even if slightly less than) the Revolver, startup on par with the Crawlmaster sport, and enough wheel speed to make the occassional leap (or, at least get out of its own way, like the TMSport 550 21t)

I've been looking at 3 different motors and I can argue in any of their favor.

Puller Pro standard: I'd wager this is by far the most powerful of the bunch. I'd likely go with the 3500kv since my understanding is that it doesn't give up any startup smoothness to the lower kv's, might as well have more speed on tap. That extra speed makes it easier to justify since it could be swapped into other faster vehicles and still be appropriate. I've also read that the PP standard has better startup than the stubby, 540L, or 540XL, so I know it would get the job done, but just how slow/smooth does it startup?

Crawlmaster Pro 550 10T: I know this will make more power than the sport line of motors, but it's hard to quantify where it fits in between, say, a TMSport and a PP?

Crawlmaster Magnum 11t or 13t: Obviously the king of brushed motors, but again, hard to compare torque/power to others brushed/brushless options. I've read that this should startup the smoothest of my options, but can I break drivetrain on command like a PP is capable of? To be honest, I'd have a real hard time plunking down $150 on a brushed motor, so I'd need a pretty convincing argument, but I'm not ruling it out.

I guess what would really help my brain wrap around this is having a chart or something (like a dyno graph) showing the actual power output of each motor and startup rpm's. Even just knowing peak wattage would help for comparison's sake since I have a general idea of the characteristics of each, it just comes down to how much of that character does each have?

 

[mikemcE]

I only can run(or want to run) my 3500PP in my 11.5lb 2.2 tired wraith.
It’s just plain too much for any of my 1.9 rigs, where I love the 2700 V1 and V2 , and now a V2 stubby.
My take on the PP3500 is it will go from mild creep to Violent tire twister at the flick of a finger. I just cannot gear it down enough to tame for my 1.9 lighter rigs


Hang up and Drive

 

[Voodoobrew]

This will be a long read, but the same questions keep coming up for me EVERY time I'm shopping for a crawler motor.

I've been swapping motors (all HH) between cars and I think it's just time to add something different to the line up to get what I'm after. My 2.2" cars are the ones that leave me wanting more in the motor department. Primary use is technical crawling with lots of cracks that like to wedge tires. The drivetrain can handle powering out of a pretty good bind, so I want a motor than can do so. The extent of my "trailing" is limited to a 5 minute (tops) walk from a parking area to a crawl spot where I will stay for an hour or so.

It goes something like this:

The torque of the Revolver is perfect. The startup is manageable, but still isn't on par with even your "sport" line of brushed motors. Considering that I run in the confined space of my backyard (about 10-12 yards of strategically placed rocks/boulders in a 15x20 space, plenty of challenging lines even for my MOA's) almost every day, the noise is wearing me down. I'd say this one drives like a Cummins diesel, noise and all.

The Puller Pro stubby is quiet enough, but the power feels very "elastic" if you will. Meaning, it doesn't have the torque I need to get over/through obstacles without squeezing the trigger further. Once it starts moving, all those amps I was feeding it to get the torque needed, quickly turn into rpm and it leaps. That's useful in a lot of situations, but it's a little unpredictable. I prefer something with more torque so things happen in a more linear fashion. This motor is great in my 1.9" cars, but it's just not enough for the big tires... it's like a souped up Toyota 22r trying to spin 40"s, you can have wheelspeed with no torque, or gear extremely low to get torque with no wheelspeed. Can't have both without a motor that makes more power (wattage.)

The Trailmaster Sports (550 21t and 550 27t) are good all 'rounders, but start showing their weakness when I start loading them hard. Even geared very low (65:1) I can stall these guys if I get a tire in a moderate bind. The 21t (on 3s) has enough speed for my needs. Running the 27t on 4s made it better, but I feel like that's just going to burn it up if I keep pulling the trigger when it's under very high load with no speed (not necessarily bound up.)

The Crawlmaster Sport (12t) has the low speed control I desire, but suffers even more than the TMSport when loading it hard.

So with all that said, I want something different. I've never bought a high end brushed motor, but I'm starting to think that there's a good chance one could outperform brushless in my application. What I want is torque that is similar to (even if slightly less than) the Revolver, startup on par with the Crawlmaster sport, and enough wheel speed to make the occassional leap (or, at least get out of its own way, like the TMSport 550 21t)

I've been looking at 3 different motors and I can argue in any of their favor.

Puller Pro standard: I'd wager this is by far the most powerful of the bunch. I'd likely go with the 3500kv since my understanding is that it doesn't give up any startup smoothness to the lower kv's, might as well have more speed on tap. That extra speed makes it easier to justify since it could be swapped into other faster vehicles and still be appropriate. I've also read that the PP standard has better startup than the stubby, 540L, or 540XL, so I know it would get the job done, but just how slow/smooth does it startup?

Crawlmaster Pro 550 10T: I know this will make more power than the sport line of motors, but it's hard to quantify where it fits in between, say, a TMSport and a PP?

Crawlmaster Magnum 11t or 13t: Obviously the king of brushed motors, but again, hard to compare torque/power to others brushed/brushless options. I've read that this should startup the smoothest of my options, but can I break drivetrain on command like a PP is capable of? To be honest, I'd have a real hard time plunking down $150 on a brushed motor, so I'd need a pretty convincing argument, but I'm not ruling it out.

I guess what would really help my brain wrap around this is having a chart or something (like a dyno graph) showing the actual power output of each motor and startup rpm's. Even just knowing peak wattage would help for comparison's sake since I have a general idea of the characteristics of each, it just comes down to how much of that character does each have?

Crawlmaster pro 550 10t on 4s is an absolute beast! You need a pricier esc like the Mamba X to get 4s though. You can use the HW880 to get 4s but the initial startup speed is higher when you turn on the freewheeling for better downhill control. I have one of these motors in a 12lb rig at 100:1 reduction and it never leaves me wanting. You may want more speed then me, but that's easy enough to do with pinions.

In Fact you could just go to 4s on your current motors and see how you like that first. You get faster brush wear but that's not really an issue on crawlers is it. if you ever ran 2s and remember how much better 3s was, going to 4s is like that but to a slightly lesser extent.

When you have 100:1 reduction almost any motor has good enough low speed control. but the 4s, 550 size and better motor windings all add to that.

I also have a 2200kv puller pro standard in my trx4 bronco, Mamba x again, I can run that on 6s with a 9t pinion (usually 4s for me). If you want insane power this can destroy all kinds of parts. Easy to slow down by lowering the cell count. Between this and the crawlmaster 550 10t I don't really notice a difference in initial startup speed. The puller pro 2200kv will have much more gear screeching top end though (geared at 100:1 the sound is horrible at 50,000rpm (but depends on your setup too)). They are both really good. Buying the lower KV 2200 and increasing voltage is better then getting a 3500kv with lower voltage hands down. I would wager there is no better all around setup then the 2200kv puller pro standard on a Mamba x for crawling and trailing (I will not argue this as its an opinion obviously). Since these 2 components are so expensive its good to get them right the first time. From here you can buy cheaper parts like gears and batteries to fine tune your power output. But If your dropping your power down to 3s then IMO you could have saved money from the beginning and gone brushed on a HW1080.

Both the 2200kv and 3500kv have the same max recommended rpm of 50,000. 6s on the 2200kv or 4s on the 3500kv are both pushing the limits, but the 2200kv will have more punch and torque with better startup.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

You are on the right path. The handwounds and longer models will have less of the unloading effect. A faster motor geared down will also drive better. I don't have full dyno charts on the fleet of motors, the brushless is too powerful for my current dyno.

I would recommend a puller pro standard if you like brushless, and a crawlmaster or torquemaster pro 550 if you like brushed

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

I'm gonna have to tap out on this thread a while. Just got a lot to deal with lately (I think we all do), and not much time to get all my work done. Thanks for the continuing support that our members are giving!

 

[TheLetterJ]

Thanks guys. It sounds like my gut feeling of going with a standard size Puller Pro is probably my best bet. I have run all of my motors on 4s (that's where the Revolver really shines), but don't have intentions of running them on 6s (other than the brief "let's see what happens" experiment I gave a few of them!) so I think the slightly higher (3500) kv will be the better choice for me. I already have MambaX's and WP860/880's that handle 4s just fine. I haven't run a brushed motor from a MambaX to compare, but I can't imagine it being much different than a 1080 in that regard.

Voodoo: I'm on the same page as you with lower gearing = smoother startup. Higher voltage certainly increases the spread of the powerband, and using a higher kv takes over beyond voltage limitations. I've always gone by the general rule of shooting for 50k rpm max on anything brushless which, for me, starts with battery voltage. 3500kv on 4s will still have about the same peak rpm as 2200 on 6s. I know I could gear a little bit lower by switching from 60/9 32p to 48p, but the spur already misses the front driveshaft by one blonde c-hair (so I can't go bigger there) and the motor is pretty well mashed into the side of the transmission case (so I can't really go smaller there.) I'm guessing that with ~60% more stator than the PPstubby the "spongey" power/response will be cured without gearing any lower than the current 65:1.

Mike: Are you running 3s in your Wraith, or 4s? What's your overall gearing?

I'll just wait until the PPV2 3500kv is back in stock at RPP and go for it!

 

[Raguvian]

How fast is the HH 2700kv on 3s? I'm currently running an HW1040 ESC and an HH 35T motor on 2s, but want more wheelspeed so will be moving to 3s packs to replace my almost 10 year old 2s lipos. Eventually down the line I want to get a Castle Mamba X and HH 2700kv stubby, but am not sure what the wheel speed will be like on 3s.

 

[TheLetterJ]

There's much more to the equation than that, but the simple answer is that 2700kv on 3s will theoretically spin ~30k rpm. To put that in perspective, your 35t 540 will spin about 10k rpm on 2s, or 15k rpm on 3s. Your gear ratios (spur/pinion/transmission/transfer case/ring & pinion/portal gears/ etc) and tire diameter will ultimately determine your speed in mph.

 

[Voodoobrew]

I'm guessing that with ~60% more stator than the PPstubby the "spongey" power/response will be cured without gearing any lower than the current 65:1.

Probably. I have my stubby geared twice as low as my standard. I'm not a fan if the stubby, Where the standard just blew me away with its power. But my stubby is only on 3s. Mine are all v1.



__________________________
Handy gearing spreadsheet

 

[Voodoobrew]

How fast is the HH 2700kv on 3s? I'm currently running an HW1040 ESC and an HH 35T motor on 2s, but want more wheelspeed so will be moving to 3s packs to replace my almost 10 year old 2s lipos. Eventually down the line I want to get a Castle Mamba X and HH 2700kv stubby, but am not sure what the wheel speed will be like on 3s.

Roughly 50% faster. Use my gearing links if you want to figure it out better.

__________________________
Handy gearing spreadsheet

 

[user unrelated]

I'm getting back into scale trucks after quite a long hiatus... (7 or 8 years at least)
I got myself a TRX4, and immediately took out all the stock electronics, because I have plenty of nicer stuff to replace it with.

I am running a Mamba Max Pro (probably one of the earlier revisions, if they have different "versions")
with a Turnigy Trackstar 21.5T motor. Running 2S LiPo
I think this is a bit "slow" compared to what you guys consider acceptable, but it works for me.
I get about 2 and a half hours of runtime out of my Gens Ace 5000mAh hard-case LiPos (The super old ones that look like giraffes lol)

I would like to stay with Brushless, but I am currently having a bit of a problem.
My girlfriend is partially deaf, and due to the damage in one of her ears, is SUPER sensitive to higher pitch tones... aka: The exact switching frequency of the MMP. She cannot hear VERY high pitch (Like me, who is driven batty by the flyback transformers on old TV's)
I see that there are some brushless ESC's with variable drive frequency, but I am having a hell of a time finding videos comparing the noise.

There's the Holmes BLE, of course. It is not listed alone on the website, though, so I am wondering if it has been phased out? I can still find it on Amain and a few other sites. EDIT: Oh, it's discontinued/sold out everywhere...

Then there's the Tekin line, but it looks like their max frequency is only 12K, instead of 16K?

And finally, the Hobbywing XR10 line has variable drive frequency as well. This obviously isn't waterproof, as it's more of a racing ESC.

The Hobbywing (XR10 stock spec V4) and BLE are similar in price, and of course Tekin is a bit more.

Does anyone have a good comparison video showing the difference drive frequency makes for brushless motors? The video Exocaged RC did for the Xerun 1080 is exactly what I am looking for...
I've watched a couple videos comparing the Hobbywing AXE system to things like the Mamba X, and it's SUPER quiet... but I don't really like the velocity loop, or the high minimum motor RPM. I am looking for similar sonic performance from a standard sensored setup.

One thing I am curious of: Is it possible to flash me MMP with the BLE firmware? Or are there physical differences as well as different software?
Thanks for any tips!

 

[Raguvian]

There's much more to the equation than that, but the simple answer is that 2700kv on 3s will theoretically spin ~30k rpm. To put that in perspective, your 35t 540 will spin about 10k rpm on 2s, or 15k rpm on 3s. Your gear ratios (spur/pinion/transmission/transfer case/ring & pinion/portal gears/ etc) and tire diameter will ultimately determine your speed in mph.

Thanks! Just trying to get a relative speed comparison. I didn't want to get the 3S right now and then have it be undrivable with the 2700kv motor, but I am looking for a bit more wheel speed (I drive the crawler on my walks, and right now it tops out at maybe 3 mph (maybe a brisk walk).

Roughly 50% faster. Use my gearing links if you want to figure it out better.

__________________________
Handy gearing spreadsheet

Thanks! That looks very comprehensive. I will have to figure out what my crawler (Gmade GS02) uses to figure it out.

 

[toy4crawlin]

Anyone?

Still would like to know

 

[$uicide $hift]

Hi John

Question

I have your BR XL Dual ESC's and want to know why are folks adding a BEC for there servo .
when your ESC already provides " 5 amp 6 volt on board switchmode BEC delivers unbelievable servo power at any input voltage. "

Do I really need one?

Also, what are the dangers of removing the heat sinks? are there instructions/video on how to strip down the esc's to make them compact?

Thank YOu

OK as you have seen John is pretty busy and won't be checking this thread. I am no expert so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

I think people add a BEC because they were told to or they have just always used one. The last reason would be that they experience brown outs when crawling due to not enough voltage because of the draw from the servo which is the reason to use a BEC.

With that said I use the Hobbywing Axe 550 system. With my Savox servo specs the ESC can handle that power and not brown out. I have never had a brown out situation so I have not added a BEC. If you are not experiencing a brownout then I would not bother with the BEC and it is NOT needed. Some may say they would rather not "stress" the ESC and that is why they add a BEC. If it runs without issue I say nix the BEC.

The danger of removing the heat sinks would be that your ESC will / may run hotter. Is it safe to remove? It depends on how hot it is getting. I don't know how you have your RC setup. If you gear really low it MAY not be an issue. If you are geared higher it could be an issue. Temperature you are driving in may be an issue too. Depending on how much stress is on the ESC it could run fine in cooler weather but on a hot day run much hotter and need the fan.

IMO don't remove the fan. You could be out on a hot day and running hard where it may really need that fan to keep the temp in check. It is just not worth removing IMO. If the ESC did not get hot enough to need one it would been designed without one. Some don't have fans as they don't need them. The ones that do I leave installed and make sure they are working.

Just my thoughts on your questions.

 

[QuesoDelDiablo]

I have your BR XL Dual ESC's and want to know why are folks adding a BEC for there servo .
when your ESC already provides " 5 amp 6 volt on board switchmode BEC delivers unbelievable servo power at any input voltage. "

Do I really need one?

Also, what are the dangers of removing the heat sinks? are there instructions/video on how to strip down the esc's to make them compact

Since John isn't available to answer for you, I'll try my best.

Heatsinks - they're on there for a reason. But if your esc runs consistently cool and you're careful never to load it up (i.e high speeds, long run time, heavy rig, etc...) you're probably ok to pop them off. But you can be pretty sure that void any warranty you might have. I'd recommend not removing them. Personally, I always remove fans from esc's but leave heatsinks on.

The external bec offers 2 advantages that I see:
1) ability to feed more than 5 amps which many servos will do or for rigs with extra elecs (winches, lights etc..)
2)ability to bypass the Rx so you can run higher voltage direct to the servo.

 

[Voodoobrew]

Only remove the heat sinks if you can afford to throw the esc away and replace it. There is only one way to find out if it will work.

__________________________
Handy gearing spreadsheet

 

[toy4crawlin]

Thank You Sir.
It just struct me hard because the high count of builds using bec and removing heat sinks. it looks so great to remove heat sink and combine 2 ESC's.
I'm not competing and my ESC's dont have Fans as they are Torque master BRXL.

Since John isn't available to answer for you, I'll try my best.

Heatsinks - they're on there for a reason. But if your esc runs consistently cool and you're careful never to load it up (i.e high speeds, long run time, heavy rig, etc...) you're probably ok to pop them off. But you can be pretty sure that void any warranty you might have. I'd recommend not removing them. Personally, I always remove fans from esc's but leave heatsinks on.

The external bec offers 2 advantages that I see:
1) ability to feed more than 5 amps which many servos will do or for rigs with extra elecs (winches, lights etc..)
2)ability to bypass the Rx so you can run higher voltage direct to the servo.

Thank You. understood, but I many MOA with single servo running on a bec. the HH BRXL already has a 5amp BEC 6volt.
I guess some newer servos require more than 6volts?

regarding removing HS, I totally get it and always think deep when considering changing something like this.
my Awesome HH BRXL's doing great, I wont be removing the heat sinks, but I am running Dual on 13t pinion, 3S lipo, just crawling, berg weight 5lbs 7oz. I am working on shaving weight
But isnt this safe to take away the heat sinks?

 

[Mr.misterjack]

John,
Thanks for taking the time to help. I watch your videos regularly. I have a problem with my electrics. When I power the motor. When powered it acts as though it is meeting hard resistance and wont spin or move and starts to get warm /hot when throttle is used. Unpowered it moves normally with the twist of my finger. I do not have a pinion on it yet so no resistance there. I am having a problem diagnosing the cause of this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am running the following.

ESC- Castle mamba x
Motor: Tekin roc 412 hd 3100kv
Battery: Gens Ace 5000mAH 7.4V 50c 2s
Radio: DX5 rugged
Rec: 5 channel spectrum

Thanks again for your time