D44 Axle bind

[OSRC]

So I purchased a VS4-10 offset D44 front axle for my VS410 parts build and am having some issues.

I built the axle with stock SCX10 AR44 gears and locker I just took out of my G6 rig. Ran fine in an SSD housing, so no issues there. With just the pinion and ring gear installed, the gears spin very smooth as expected.

When I slide in the short shaft only, it still turns though there is noticeable pressure at 1 spot during rotation. Not enough to bind anything up, but I can feel it for sure when spinning the pinion input by hand.

When I slide in the long shaft only, similar issue though the binding is worse. I can spin the input pinion shaft still with my fingers though there is significant resistance at a certain spot during the rotation.

When slide in both axles, it binds up terribly, to the point where I cannot turn either the pinion shaft or the axles themselves by hand. The long axle especially locks up solid. I tried re-indexing the shafts in relation to each other with no difference. Also removed the knuckles to be sure they weren't a problem (they were not)

I pulled off the diff cover and loosened the bearing caps and after a certain point, the axle spins somewhat free - however I have to have the bearing caps out far enough that the diff cover will not seat down. That can't be good, and I can't run it that way. I suspect the tangs on the shafts are slightly off though I'm no engineer (I just play one on RCC)

I've already reached out to support via the contact page so we'll see what they say.. in the meantime, any of the VP experts see something I'm doing wrong? I've built one of these before and it went together flawlessly, but it was a Pro kit.

AR44 gears/stock locker causing issues maybe? I can't see how, but you never know. "thumbsup"

 

[Xx Losungen xX]

Try with the driveshaft installed.

 

[Topher Builds]

^ good idea

Also, maybe try sticking one of your 10.2 universals in the short side to see if the binding still happens. If not, could be a tolerance issue with the incision universal.

 

[OSRC]

It's the same with the driveshafts installed. It's not the hypoid gears locking.

Good idea with the SCX10 shaft, I'll give it a whirl.

 

[HumboldtEF]

This reminds me of an issue I had with a beeftubes insert that was a bit off center. With the axle shafts installed I would get some binding and it turned out the axle shaft was contacting the inside of the axle (the beeftube insert) and the reason I was able to tell was the witness marks on the axle shaft itself where it had rubbed away the black coating. I just took a drill to it and opened it up some though I doubt you'll want to do the same on a new VP axle.

 

[OSRC]

VP support got back right away. They recommended checking the pinion bearings which I did (and makes sense, first thing I would have said too). All is well there. Tapped them in to be sure, though they slide right in and out with no issue.

The short axle I can live with, it's minimal binding. Can't even feel it with the wheel on. The long one though, wow. When it locks, I can pick up the entire axle by just the axle shaft and shake it and the axle won't slide back out. Think I found my issue.

Am I wrong? I don't know what else I could be missing.

https://youtu.be/rlLZNpRhm0A

Going to swap in the gears/locker from the rear axle to see if it makes a difference.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

What brand are the axle shafts? The long one definitely seem to be the issue. It seems bent.

 

[OSRC]

VP, they came with the axle housing.

Swapping ring gears and locker with the rear axle made no difference...I've ruled the gears and locker out at this point.

Do the D44 axles not work with Axial parts? It says recommend parts:

Vanquish Products 6-Hole AR44 Gear set. PN VPS08330
Vanquish Products 6-hole AR44 Spool. VPS08070

- VP gears and spool of course, but if those parts drop into an AR44 axle housing, why would the reverse not work? I just ordered the VP spool in any case.

 

[boldfin]

This is anecdotal evidence, but I experienced similar bind issues when I built my D44's with Axial diff gears. I also tried SSD gears, but they bound up too. The solution for me was to purchase VP gears and spools. Those were the only ones to spin smooth in my D44's, at least for me.

I've had similar bind issues with Axial AR44 axles, and SSD Diamond Pro & Pro44 axles. No matter the brand, if it has hypoid Ar44-style gears, I seem to have to try several brands of spools and lockers before I finally find one that spins smooth. I realize this may be not related to brand at all, and could represent user/installer (trial and) error.

 

[OSRC]

Huh....good info, thanks for sharing..

I know sometimes mixing and matching parts from various brands can get hairy. Though these were AR44 gears and locker than spun fine in both the stock Axial housing as well as SSD housings. They sit perfect in the axles and spin fine until I slot in the axle shafts. Then it all goes to hell. I ordered the VP locker, though I would think it would make things worse since the tolerances are probably better than the slophouse Axial piece. Or maybe it'll be better, I don't know.

 

[OSRC]

Interesting... messed with this axle for another hour and got nowhere. This is a really strange problem, and quite frankly frustrating as hell.

Removed the pinion completely leaving only the ring gear/locker and the axle still binds up hard. Tried 2 different lockers and no difference. I'm not sure that the VP one will help or not, but it should be here in a day or two. Interestingly, if I pull the axle shafts out a mm or two, they spin fine. It's when they are all the way inserted that they lock up. Odd.

VP support recommends "changing the ring gear, pinion gear, and possibly the side bearings" and really doesn't think the axle shafts themselves are the problem. They (grudgingly) offered to send a long shaft, but until I can narrow it down, no point in that. They may be right, I don't know. I've ruled out the gears though, I can't see how they are causing an issue. It's for sure something with the axle shafts and locker.

On a side note, I ordered new axles anyway on my own since both sides seem to have some issues (longer side definitely locks up harder though) and if they solve the issue I'm going to be pretty pissed. OR not, and I wasted $45.

We'll see I guess.

 

[VP Dan]

Interesting... messed with this axle for another hour and got nowhere. This is a really strange problem, and quite frankly frustrating as hell.

Removed the pinion completely leaving only the ring gear/locker and the axle still binds up hard. Tried 2 different lockers and no difference. I'm not sure that the VP one will help or not, but it should be here in a day or two. Interestingly, if I pull the axle shafts out a mm or two, they spin fine. It's when they are all the way inserted that they lock up. Odd.

VP support recommends "changing the ring gear, pinion gear, and possibly the side bearings" and really doesn't think the axle shafts themselves are the problem. They (grudgingly) offered to send a long shaft, but until I can narrow it down, no point in that. They may be right, I don't know. I've ruled out the gears though, I can't see how they are causing an issue. It's for sure something with the axle shafts and locker.

On a side note, I ordered new axles anyway on my own since both sides seem to have some issues (longer side definitely locks up harder though) and if they solve the issue I'm going to be pretty pissed. OR not, and I wasted $45.

We'll see I guess.

check your shafts to make sure non are bent

 

[OSRC]

The saga continues...and concludes. So, in order to finally use this axle, I ordered a VP diff locker to see if it helped, as well as a new set of axles to try out. VP Support said it wasn't the axles but it's the only thing that makes sense. Since I had new axles coming, I ground down around the tangs just slightly on the original set to see if it loosed things up - especially on the long side. It did a little, but still locked up enough to hold the axle and shake it. I also swapped in different bearings per VP's recommendation and of course it make no difference.

Note if I put a Traxxas fiber shim between the outer bearing and the axle shaft, they spun perfectly....but due to the tolerances, I couldn't get the knuckles on. Worth a try I guess. Both sides spin perfectly fine when pulled out slightly. I don't understand it to be honest.

Parts have arrived. Fingers crossed.

Swapped in the new axles with the Axial locker/gear. Long side now spins free, but the SHORT side binds now. WTF? Removed the ring gear completely and just used the lockers themselves. Does the same with the VP or the Axial locker, so the locker is not the issue. It has to be the axles somehow. Short axle now binds up hard enough again to pick up the axle completely. *sigh* Again, if i slide them out a mm or two, they spin fine. It's only when they are flush with the bearings that they lock...if I pull them out of the axle when they are locked up, they come out with a noticeable pop almost. Here I am holding the axle up with the short shaft inserted into the VP locker...should slide right out. Nope.

Finally after much installing, re-installing, messing around, swapping parts, curse words, dollars spent and frustration, I got a combo that spins. It binds slightly, but I can live with it and shouldn't cause any running problems. I used the NEW long axle, the OLD short axle, and the VP locker (though it also spun fine with the Axial) I had the VP, may as well use it.

My finally finished (and very expensive) front axle. Just need to put the rest of the diff cover screws in, and bolt it back on the VS4 chassis.

I'm not going to flame anyone here, but this was beyond ridiculous. This is a top of the line part and the fitment issues - whatever they are, I'm still not 100% sure what's going on here - were completely unacceptable. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Topher Builds]

Well I’m glad it’s working for you now, it’s a shame you had to go through so much time, money, and effort. But they are a handsome axle.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build.

 

[Xx Losungen xX]

Sounds like a problem with the housing itself, no offer to correct that?

 

[OSRC]

No. I just detailed everything I did and sent it over to support this morning. Something is off somewhere, damned if I know what it is. Frankly, if it were my company, I'd want to know what's going on. It's an odd issue.

 

[1fox2go]

I wonder if its the coating they painted the axles with is thicker in some areas?

Id be curious to see if after a pack or 2 if you tore them down and the binding was completely gone

I agree, Vanquish is supposed to be the top shelf stuff. I understand every brand has issues from time to time but reading this thread and others I am put off on buying their products...