Brood or HH?

[EddieO]

Oof, first let me just say, the site is a work in progress. I guess there are a few ways to sell motors. In my case, I felt trying to just put 1 motor base with a whole host of options would be extremely confusing, and also prone to a ton of errors, and you would be surprised how easy people mess up those up. I used to use them on the old site in the racing days......one of the main ones was how we tuned your motor, as the tuning for 1/12th scale is different than say a touring car. We had other options on motors for upgrades (brushes, springs, etc), or as you went to the modified motors, you could mess with all sorts of stuff(web, wire, brushes, springs, etc)....

So, when I put the site back up, I couldn't get the web guy to help me reinstall the options....then when the site went tits up a few months back, we had to upgrade to the newest version, so while I can install the option menus, there is no sort order addon for them, so I cannot get them to default to the right option (aka no option)....so until I find a mod and a web guy to help me, I am a bit stuck....

I do have a ton of options available beyond my unmatched selection in motors.....nobody has more types of armatures than me.....and for the 540 motors, I carry 4 different teardowns at this time, including the only 4 magnet on the market still. Option wise, I have tons....team springs, ceramic bearings, epoxy balancing, polished armature, team heatsinks, upgraded brushes........just tons of stuff, but like I said STUCK on the damn website working at this point.

However, when the site went down and after listening to DickyT, Tedrockz, Eeepee, and a host of others that I needed to improve the info on the site, I went to work with better product descriptions. I actually got the table code and such working on the site myself (I took an html class in college in the late 90s....know just enough to be dangerous)...I also had Peter help me with product descriptions, as I am terrible at writing stuff that sounds good.....

Now, I do have to defend site a little bit here.

I carry 4 types of motors....Apocalypse, Creep, Onslaught and Chaos. Each of these has different types, which in all cases is a difference in armature. In every description I put the difference in the armature, along with what it does....the features and specifications also list these differences (as Ted pasted above)

Here are three examples from the apocalypse, note the BOLD sections...

Type GS

Is instantaneous dirt slinging, rock gripping, gap jumping wheel speed your thing? Then don't look any further than the Team Brood Apocalypse GS. Insane torque and power in the ultimate competition package!

The Apocalypse GS is built upon Team Brood's 2-magnet teardown, a power plant designed specifically to make insane torque and have superior braking and holding power over Team Brood's 4-magnet teardown.

The Apocalypse Type GS features laydown brushes and a High-RPM 7.5mm commutator on a 3mm web Super-RPM blank. The Type GS armature will provide a signifigant increase in power and RPM to give you that extra power you crave.

Each motor is custom built from the ground up, beginning with Exclusive teardowns. The armatures are hand wound with precision by the best in the business using optimized wire gauges for ultimate horsepower. Each armature is epoxy dipped to unsure durability and drill balanced to a zero tolerance for the smoothest power delivery possible.

The assembly process is a rigorous one involving hand shimming, precise brush hood alignment, low impact break-in, and dyno testing. The result? Positively THE MOST POWER you can strap into your truck.

Don't compromise performance, buying into other "motor tuners" gimmicks. Go with Team Brood Horsepower, real knowledge - real wins.

Type R

Is instantaneous dirt slinging, rock gripping, gap jumping wheel speed your thing? Then don't look any further than the Team Brood Apocalypse R. Insane torque and power in the ultimate competition package!

The Apocalypse R is built upon Team Brood's 2-magnet teardown, a power plant designed specifically to make insane torque and have superior braking and holding power over Team Brood's 4-magnet teardown.

The Apocalypse Type R features laydown brushes and a High-RPM 7.5mm commutator. The Type R armature will provide a bit more RPM and power to give you that extra touch of wheelspeed.

Each motor is custom built from the ground up, beginning with Exclusive teardowns. The armatures are hand wound with precision by the best in the business using optimized wire gauges for ultimate horsepower. Each armature is epoxy dipped to unsure durability and drill balanced to a zero tolerance for the smoothest power delivery possible.

The assembly process is a rigorous one involving hand shimming, precise brush hood alignment, low impact break-in, and dyno testing. The result? Positively THE MOST POWER you can strap into your truck.

Don't compromise performance, buying into other "motor tuners" gimmicks. Go with Team Brood Horsepower, real knowledge - real wins.

Type HHK

Is instantaneous dirt slinging, rock gripping, gap jumping wheel speed your thing? Then don't look any further than the Team Brood Apocalypse HHK-R. Insane torque and power in the ultimate competition package!

The Apocalypse HHK-R is built upon Team Brood's 2-magnet teardown, a power plant designed specifically to make insane torque and have superior braking and holding power over Team Brood's 4-magnet teardown.

The Apocalypse Type HHK-R features laydown brushes and High-RPM 7.5mm commutator on a high circular mill armature. The Type HHK-R armature is fully packed with the biggest wire possible, which gives the motor more RPM, more torque, and more power, while the High-RPM commutator provides a touch of extra wheelspeed.

Each motor is custom built from the ground up, beginning with Exclusive teardowns. The armatures are hand wound with precision by the best in the business using optimized wire gauges for ultimate horsepower. Each armature is epoxy dipped to unsure durability and drill balanced to a zero tolerance for the smoothest power delivery possible.

The assembly process is a rigorous one involving hand shimming, precise brush hood alignment, low impact break-in, and dyno testing. The result? Positively THE MOST POWER you can strap into your truck.

Don't compromise performance, buying into other "motor tuners" gimmicks. Go with Team Brood Horsepower, real knowledge - real wins.


So, as you see, they all use the same blueprint of words to describe the teardown, because its the same.....the difference is in the arm. Which I think I did a decent job at describing.....remember I am not good with these things. Peter wrote the base of it, I added the Type difference to each...

Now, I am almost done with a motor selection guide....again, I am not good with words, so I had another of my ex-racers help with it. He is super busy, so I kinda had to wait my turn.....problem is, he forgot the "what turn do I want section" so he is fixing that hopefully today....I'll post it here in the next post.

And yes, I can always be emailed or PMed, in fact I've given out my cell phone or facebook to help people with motors..........I'll answer any question you got and help get you exactly what you need. I'll build you the motor just how you want it, which I don't care what other company claims, nobody can top the options or selection I have with motors, yes I have the benefit of having new old stock from the racing days........

I will answer other direct questions in the next post.

Later EddieO

 

[EddieO]

I am pretty sure the creep explains it has a 4 magnet can pretty well, and the apocalypse explains its two.....they both tell which brushes they have also....

To answer yer question on the chaos, there is a new teardown coming.......I can't say by who or what, but it should be a nice unit and will be popular with the crawler guys. I already had the stickers in the works, but the teardown is delayed. I do however have a case of the Ti teardown, so I figured I would sell them as the Chaos until they are gone and the new one comes out.....the Ti Teardown is basically a slightly different version of the apocalypse. Can is slightly different, same magnets....endbell is nearly the same, just the no built in caps and stuff is different colors. Magnets are the same..........call it Ford vs Chevy, but one has a mud flaps.

I've seen that, but perhaps the motors I were checking for specs on just were completed or vague. What I'd like to see is a back to back list. Something saying Motor A has lay down brushes and 4 magnet cans. Motor B has standup brushes with w magent cans. I don't want to have to click open each motor to see what it's packing. Something like that would easily allow a consumer to know that motor B is out of the picture etc etc.

Or what would be of great benefit is what Coop Had stated. Big comm provides this advantage, small comm does this, more arm segments does this while less does this. Stuff like that will educate consumers and ultimately allow them to pick what suites them best.

** EDIT **

Ok, I just spent about an hour looking at the Brood site. Seems I have found somehpthing that sparks my interest. The Apocalypse & Chaos 16 turns. But, according to their spec sheets, they are the same motor. What's the difference? The sticker? If so, whichnsticker gives me more power?

I don't know all the techincal reasons why in the technical terms. WHen I was a kid, I was just told "it doesn't work"....I actually Big Jim, and he basically said it doesn't work because of the way the coils engergize and such...I've seen a 3t run, but like crap.....we wound a 2t at brood and it would not even spin, so we didn't bother with the 1t.

Ass.



I need more voltage!



Says who?

 

[losikid]

Eddie0 i sent you a pm

 

[EeePee]

Got dang it! that was a wall of words.

we didn't bother with the 1t.

Lame.

 

[EddieO]

The almost done, but not completed motor selection guide....


There are several factors you will want to consider before purchasing your next Team Br00d crawler motor. Consider which aspects of performance you are looking for, and read this guide thoroughly to ensure maximum performance for your particular scenario.
First- decide if you would benefit more from a two or four magnet can. A two-magnet can will yield slightly more torque, as well as delivering better drag brake. A four-magnet can will provide better low speed resolution while providing a higher wheel speed and overall power.
Next- it’s time to select your armature. Some armature differences are more profound than others, so it’s important to know WHY you are choosing a particular armature.
Commutator size will have a very small, but noticeable effect on the motor’s power band. Smaller commutators will produce more RPM and overall power, while a bigger commutator will produce more torque and run at a higher efficiency.

Webbing size is vital, as it will drastically alter the power band. A smaller webbing will produce more RPM and overall power, but you will lose some torque and efficiency. The loss of torque is smaller than the RPM gain, explaining the increase in power. A larger webbing will increase torque and efficiency, but will decrease RPM and overall power.

Armatures with Big Wire will produce more RPM, more Power and more Torque than the same armature with smaller wire will.

Armatures with Flat Wire will produce better low speed resolution and more torque, while sacrificing some top-end RPM.

Armatures that are skewed will provide a very smooth start up, but sacrifice some RPM at higher voltages.

Armatures that are slotted will produce more RPM and overall power, but sacrifice torque and efficiency. A slotted armature will provide smoother low speed resolution, as they mimic a 5 segment armature.

Armatures with 5 segments will produce very good low speed resolution, but will lack in power and stall out quicker than the equivalent wind on a 3 segment, and have less drag brake.


Team Br00d Armature Inventory

Type R=7.5mm Commutator-
Type R armatures feature a 7.5mm commutator. 7.5mm is the standard commutator size for RC motors. Typically referred to as the “small comm”, these arms will often produce more RPM and overall power than larger armatures with larger commutators.

Type T=9mm Commutator-
Type T armatures feature a 9mm commutator, which is often considered to be “mid size”. These armatures will often produce more torque and be more efficient than a smaller comm.

Type R/T=10mm Commutator-
Type R/T armatures feature a 10mm commutator, which is often considered to be the “big comm”. These armatures will produce the most torque, but often lack a little RPM compared to smaller commutators. If you are looking for a smooth power band, the Type R/T is a great choice.

Type GS=3mm Web Armature-


Type GS armatures feature a 3mm webbing. Smaller webbed armatures will produce more RPM and overall power. These are very “grunty” armatures that can provide the extra power when needed. The Type GS is less efficient, so stock up on milliamps, and hammer down.



Type S/S=Slotted Armature-
Type S/S armatures feature a custom machined vertical slot down each segment of the armature. These armatures will produce more RPM and power, while mimicking a 5 segment armature, therefore providing a smoother low speed resolution.

Type HHK=Big Wire Armature-
Type HHK armatures feature larger than normal wire size. Typically HHK winds will use larger wire by about half a gauge. Bigger wire armatures are more efficient, while producing more RPM, torque and overall power. These arms are not for the novice driver, as they can, and WILL break parts if you don't know when to release the trigger.


Type GT = 5.5mm Web Armature-
Type GT armatures feature a 5.5mm webbing. Larger web armatures will produce more torque while being more efficient. These arms can produce part breaking torque, but will sacrifice some wheel speed.

Type S =Skewed Armature


Type CVR= 5 Segment Armature

 

[Manning]

Are all the arm overall diameters the same?
Are all the magnets the same on the inside diameter?

In other words, is there a small airgap combo, or a large airgap combo?

 

[EddieO]

They are pretty much the same....the hysol causes differences, but they are all around .900 or so, depend on your calipers....

I've messed with airgap a bit before in crawler motors.....we used to use it a lot in racing. I've thought about adding it as an option, but its one of those things I don't think a lot of people would understand and would more than likely just cause more confusion....not to mention, increasing air gap too much will cause a loss in torque and drag brake.

The LE 45t I did a month back had a ground down arm and honed magnets to match the gaps perfectly. I took off very little, as I was just trying to make them perfect, not really increase the gap.

Honing the magnets isn't fun, its extremely messy and nasty dust particles. I actually broke the hone I made doing a test motor a few days back. Grinding the arms down can be done a few ways....the slot car guys are fanatical about air gap. They will often have $500 just in magnet hones....

Later EddieO

 

[TEDROCKZ]

They are pretty much the same....the hysol causes differences, but they are all around .900 or so, depend on your calipers..

Yep the hysol makes a difference. After you done that polished and dye run of LEs I got to looking at different motors(arms). They varied from .905 to .908 on the stuff I had, about 60 quality handwounds. I started turning some down and dying them(preety) and running a few dyno runs after. I turn them down to say .904 and after a coat or two of dye it finishes up @.905. Just my way of matching up pairs even closer. Little more Ef on the CE45"thumbsup"

 

[EddieO]

Yeah. We used to turn shit down to like an .850 though...sometimes even smaller....damn tips of the segments would be razor sharp....

Later EddieO

 

[TSK]

Not THAT'S what I was looking for.

To be clear, I was not trying to bust anyone's balls or bag on your website. Like you said you have TONS of choices, and it's just a PITA to open multiple browser pages to compare them or to even see find what I'm looking for. I want to be S informed and educated about my product purchases. $75+ on a motor is no joke. If I got to dish out twice that to power my XR, I want to know what I spent it on, and not just off of heresy.

Thanks for that info Eddie O. I'll probably cut Nd paste that info to a text doc so that I can reference it later. Good luck on finishing your website & your continued success.

Oof, first let me just say, the site is a work in progress. I guess there are a few ways to sell motors. In my case, I felt trying to just put 1 motor base with a whole host of options would be extremely confusing, and also prone to a ton of errors, and you would be surprised how easy people mess up those up. I used to use them on the old site in the racing days......one of the main ones was how we tuned your motor, as the tuning for 1/12th scale is different than say a touring car. We had other options on motors for upgrades (brushes, springs, etc), or as you went to the modified motors, you could mess with all sorts of stuff(web, wire, brushes, springs, etc)....

So, when I put the site back up, I couldn't get the web guy to help me reinstall the options....then when the site went tits up a few months back, we had to upgrade to the newest version, so while I can install the option menus, there is no sort order addon for them, so I cannot get them to default to the right option (aka no option)....so until I find a mod and a web guy to help me, I am a bit stuck....

I do have a ton of options available beyond my unmatched selection in motors.....nobody has more types of armatures than me.....and for the 540 motors, I carry 4 different teardowns at this time, including the only 4 magnet on the market still. Option wise, I have tons....team springs, ceramic bearings, epoxy balancing, polished armature, team heatsinks, upgraded brushes........just tons of stuff, but like I said STUCK on the damn website working at this point.

However, when the site went down and after listening to DickyT, Tedrockz, Eeepee, and a host of others that I needed to improve the info on the site, I went to work with better product descriptions. I actually got the table code and such working on the site myself (I took an html class in college in the late 90s....know just enough to be dangerous)...I also had Peter help me with product descriptions, as I am terrible at writing stuff that sounds good.....

Now, I do have to defend site a little bit here.

I carry 4 types of motors....Apocalypse, Creep, Onslaught and Chaos. Each of these has different types, which in all cases is a difference in armature. In every description I put the difference in the armature, along with what it does....the features and specifications also list these differences (as Ted pasted above)

Here are three examples from the apocalypse, note the BOLD sections...

Type GS

Is instantaneous dirt slinging, rock gripping, gap jumping wheel speed your thing? Then don't look any further than the Team Brood Apocalypse GS. Insane torque and power in the ultimate competition package!

The Apocalypse GS is built upon Team Brood's 2-magnet teardown, a power plant designed specifically to make insane torque and have superior braking and holding power over Team Brood's 4-magnet teardown.

The Apocalypse Type GS features laydown brushes and a High-RPM 7.5mm commutator on a 3mm web Super-RPM blank. The Type GS armature will provide a signifigant increase in power and RPM to give you that extra power you crave.

Each motor is custom built from the ground up, beginning with Exclusive teardowns. The armatures are hand wound with precision by the best in the business using optimized wire gauges for ultimate horsepower. Each armature is epoxy dipped to unsure durability and drill balanced to a zero tolerance for the smoothest power delivery possible.

The assembly process is a rigorous one involving hand shimming, precise brush hood alignment, low impact break-in, and dyno testing. The result? Positively THE MOST POWER you can strap into your truck.

Don't compromise performance, buying into other "motor tuners" gimmicks. Go with Team Brood Horsepower, real knowledge - real wins.

Type R

Is instantaneous dirt slinging, rock gripping, gap jumping wheel speed your thing? Then don't look any further than the Team Brood Apocalypse R. Insane torque and power in the ultimate competition package!

The Apocalypse R is built upon Team Brood's 2-magnet teardown, a power plant designed specifically to make insane torque and have superior braking and holding power over Team Brood's 4-magnet teardown.

The Apocalypse Type R features laydown brushes and a High-RPM 7.5mm commutator. The Type R armature will provide a bit more RPM and power to give you that extra touch of wheelspeed.

Each motor is custom built from the ground up, beginning with Exclusive teardowns. The armatures are hand wound with precision by the best in the business using optimized wire gauges for ultimate horsepower. Each armature is epoxy dipped to unsure durability and drill balanced to a zero tolerance for the smoothest power delivery possible.

The assembly process is a rigorous one involving hand shimming, precise brush hood alignment, low impact break-in, and dyno testing. The result? Positively THE MOST POWER you can strap into your truck.

Don't compromise performance, buying into other "motor tuners" gimmicks. Go with Team Brood Horsepower, real knowledge - real wins.

Type HHK

Is instantaneous dirt slinging, rock gripping, gap jumping wheel speed your thing? Then don't look any further than the Team Brood Apocalypse HHK-R. Insane torque and power in the ultimate competition package!

The Apocalypse HHK-R is built upon Team Brood's 2-magnet teardown, a power plant designed specifically to make insane torque and have superior braking and holding power over Team Brood's 4-magnet teardown.

The Apocalypse Type HHK-R features laydown brushes and High-RPM 7.5mm commutator on a high circular mill armature. The Type HHK-R armature is fully packed with the biggest wire possible, which gives the motor more RPM, more torque, and more power, while the High-RPM commutator provides a touch of extra wheelspeed.

Each motor is custom built from the ground up, beginning with Exclusive teardowns. The armatures are hand wound with precision by the best in the business using optimized wire gauges for ultimate horsepower. Each armature is epoxy dipped to unsure durability and drill balanced to a zero tolerance for the smoothest power delivery possible.

The assembly process is a rigorous one involving hand shimming, precise brush hood alignment, low impact break-in, and dyno testing. The result? Positively THE MOST POWER you can strap into your truck.

Don't compromise performance, buying into other "motor tuners" gimmicks. Go with Team Brood Horsepower, real knowledge - real wins.


So, as you see, they all use the same blueprint of words to describe the teardown, because its the same.....the difference is in the arm. Which I think I did a decent job at describing.....remember I am not good with these things. Peter wrote the base of it, I added the Type difference to each...

Now, I am almost done with a motor selection guide....again, I am not good with words, so I had another of my ex-racers help with it. He is super busy, so I kinda had to wait my turn.....problem is, he forgot the "what turn do I want section" so he is fixing that hopefully today....I'll post it here in the next post.

And yes, I can always be emailed or PMed, in fact I've given out my cell phone or facebook to help people with motors..........I'll answer any question you got and help get you exactly what you need. I'll build you the motor just how you want it, which I don't care what other company claims, nobody can top the options or selection I have with motors, yes I have the benefit of having new old stock from the racing days........

I will answer other direct questions in the next post.

Later EddieO

 

[EddieO]

No, by all means bag on it! I suck at it....I am not in denial! Advice like this helps, as I know where to improve and such.....

Hopefully, this new guy who is helping me fix my shipping issue, can help me with the product option sort issue. If I can get that working, you will see all the options appear on the site and it will be mind boggling.

I also have a motor faq I have been working on, I gotta go back and edit it though, because I probably take a few too many pot shots in it I wrote much of it in a bad mood:lmao:

One thing I did not note that someone PMed me about is why I don't offer 4mm or 5mm as options. While I would if someone REALLY wanted one, I don't because of how I get stuff wound up. All my 20-35t stuff in the R, T, R/T, HHK, S/S are wound on 5mm blanks, while all the 45t and up stuff is wound on 4mm blank. I do it this way because I feel they work best like that and if you really want to try to alter the powerband one way or the other, the GS (3mm) and GT (5.5mm) are available. I'll probably in the future offer them though, just as I will some other new Types I got in the works (XLR, SLR, Y, Z)....along with my Type O winds I got coming

Later EddieO

Not THAT'S what I was looking for.

To be clear, I was not trying to bust anyone's balls or bag on your website. Like you said you have TONS of choices, and it's just a PITA to open multiple browser pages to compare them or to even see find what I'm looking for. I want to be S informed and educated about my product purchases. $75+ on a motor is no joke. If I got to dish out twice that to power my XR, I want to know what I spent it on, and not just off of heresy.

Thanks for that info Eddie O. I'll probably cut Nd paste that info to a text doc so that I can reference it later. Good luck on finishing your website & your continued success.

 

[Manning]

Thanks for the info on airgaps.

Yes, I used to do slotcar dragracing 10-15 years ago, and had a decent selection of hones. I was always amazed at how tight we ran them (0.0015-0.002" IIRC).

 

[ManiacMagoo]

You guys all could be weird like me and support both "thumbsup". I run my Brood motors with BR-XL's lol.

 

[EddieO]

You know how crazy those damn hones are. There is a local guy who showed me his stash, he had over 15 sizes at $40+ each.....was nuts. The entire way a slot car motor is made compared to ours is nuts....I've learned a ton, as being Big Jim's protege got my foot in the door with some of the old school guys, so they let me in on their secrets.....Big Jim was big into slot cars before he moved to RC. Checkpoint was originally a slot car company......many companies are like that. Trinity, Reedy, and more....

Thanks for the info on airgaps.

Yes, I used to do slotcar dragracing 10-15 years ago, and had a decent selection of hones. I was always amazed at how tight we ran them (0.0015-0.002" IIRC).

The HH speed controls are nice units.....if I didn't already have tekins and randy pike wasn't so nice to me, I would probably try a pair.....well and if I actually had money to spend on em....wife is cracking the whip with my hobby money.

You guys all could be weird like me and support both "thumbsup". I run my Brood motors with BR-XL's lol.

Later EddieO

 

[losikid]

You guys all could be weird like me and support both "thumbsup". I run my Brood motors with BR-XL's lol.

I do, i have rebadged broods (jp cutoms warrior r/2 35t) and hh-brxl's powering them...