Solitaire
RCC Addict
Thanks. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.
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2016 season Radio Control Rock Crawling rule changes
- Thread starter JohnRobHolmes
- Start date
Thanks. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.
My take on body existence and dimensions for the 2.2S class:
* Does a (very) tiny body really give an overall performance advantage? (I don't know, but can imagine it's a disadvantage when trying to roll the truck over when it's upside down.)
* Scale looks.
- In all of the (not that many) 1:1 films of rock crawlers I've seen on YouTube all trucks with regular bodies use much smaller wheels than we do. Those that run large wheels are all cage designs with no or some plating.
- The current "comp" bodies, as used, look like no vehicle I know of.
* Dimensions. The one dimension where current bodiless have a distinct advantage over the regular 1:10 body is the location of the width. Bodies are widest near the centre while bodiless design are widest at the ends.
Who will make me a dog-bone body?
# If/when scale looks is high priority, the Scaler class 3 caters to your needs.
# I'd really like to see some pictures of current day 1:1 rock crawlers that look anything like the rigs we run. Otherwise I might advocate the use of tubers instead of bodies for some scale realism...
* Does a (very) tiny body really give an overall performance advantage? (I don't know, but can imagine it's a disadvantage when trying to roll the truck over when it's upside down.)
* Scale looks.
- In all of the (not that many) 1:1 films of rock crawlers I've seen on YouTube all trucks with regular bodies use much smaller wheels than we do. Those that run large wheels are all cage designs with no or some plating.
- The current "comp" bodies, as used, look like no vehicle I know of.
* Dimensions. The one dimension where current bodiless have a distinct advantage over the regular 1:10 body is the location of the width. Bodies are widest near the centre while bodiless design are widest at the ends.
Who will make me a dog-bone body?
# If/when scale looks is high priority, the Scaler class 3 caters to your needs.
# I'd really like to see some pictures of current day 1:1 rock crawlers that look anything like the rigs we run. Otherwise I might advocate the use of tubers instead of bodies for some scale realism...
binaryterror
I wanna be Dave
I agree, BUT...it's currently done wrong then.
My body, being a stand alone item must measure 3"x3"x8". Doesn't matter the size, shape, or if the chassis protrudes below the body in question.
The "Cab" of a bodiless rarely meets any of the needed 3" height or 8" length on most chassis without measuring the chassis as well.
My original question still stands unanswered. How can a Cab of a bodiless be 1" tall and use the chassis for the remaining measurement, but a Body of 2" tall with 1" of chassis hanging below be considered illegal?
Can you copy/paste where youre reading/interpreting this?
From what I see, the chassis IS considered part of the bodied measurement.
tapped-out
I wanna be Dave
I'm sure this isn't the answer to the question. that's just how it is even with a Body cut to spec 3x3x8 it can be mounted so sides of body meet bottom of chassis.
Cab doesn't (bodiless) have to meet the 3x3x8. Cab only need to be 1" above main chassis.
A. 3" B. 8" C. 3"
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Rules have been clarified for 2.2S measurements, so that body and chassis together are used for the 8x3x3 measurement.
▪ 2.5.6 - Bodied Vehicles only, typically a lexan body that is removable from chassis. Bodiless vehicles are prohibited. Bodies must be of original width and resemble a 1:1 vehicle with cab, door, and hood panels. Vehicle chassis with body measurements must be 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
Vehicle interaction penalty has also been refined to reflect the overall intention, with a few examples.
▪ 1.4.1 - Vehicle Touches: include but are not limited to: repairs, repositions, and intentional touching of the rig by the driver. Touch penalty will occur if driver interacts with intent to cause advantage or control a falling vehicle.
Special considerations: Driver safety is most important and touch penalties should not accumulate from accidental interaction. When vehicle and driver make accidental contact, the judge or driver(s) assisting scoring shall stop time and determine if standard reposition should occur to prevent advantage, or if driver can continue without further interaction. Example 1: Vehicle falls and hits driver, coming to rest on the driver's foot. Judges stop time, and call for a no-penalty reposition, as the driver could gain course advantage by continuing to drive over the foot. If driver ignores reposition and drives over foot, it becomes an event rule violation of course modification and the driver is disqualified.
Example 2: Driver stumbles and steps on vehicle. Judges stop time to ensure driver has stable footing, and to assess vehicle position. No advantage is seen, so time starts and driver resumes without reposition.
Example 3: Vehicle falls and hits driver, coming to rest further downhill. Judges stop time and assess that no advantage was made from the fall, so time restarts and driver resumes.
Further issues I would like to address: 1.9 class should really be called a Mini class. Most 1.9 vehicles on the market are 1/10th scale, while our 1.9 class is 1/18th scale. Thusly, I feel the name does not properly reflect the class as pertaining to the market.
Course design should be planned so that 75% of the people can finish all non-finals courses. This might cause a points tie for the highest ranking drivers, which can be broken with course times, individual course scores (as already done), or finals course(s). There is no reason that courses should take a lucky bounce or jump to complete. To encourage more course completion, I have made the 40pt course max an optional judging requirement. I will also work on a more descriptive section in the rules to convey these ideas.
▪ 2.5.6 - Bodied Vehicles only, typically a lexan body that is removable from chassis. Bodiless vehicles are prohibited. Bodies must be of original width and resemble a 1:1 vehicle with cab, door, and hood panels. Vehicle chassis with body measurements must be 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
Vehicle interaction penalty has also been refined to reflect the overall intention, with a few examples.
▪ 1.4.1 - Vehicle Touches: include but are not limited to: repairs, repositions, and intentional touching of the rig by the driver. Touch penalty will occur if driver interacts with intent to cause advantage or control a falling vehicle.
Special considerations: Driver safety is most important and touch penalties should not accumulate from accidental interaction. When vehicle and driver make accidental contact, the judge or driver(s) assisting scoring shall stop time and determine if standard reposition should occur to prevent advantage, or if driver can continue without further interaction. Example 1: Vehicle falls and hits driver, coming to rest on the driver's foot. Judges stop time, and call for a no-penalty reposition, as the driver could gain course advantage by continuing to drive over the foot. If driver ignores reposition and drives over foot, it becomes an event rule violation of course modification and the driver is disqualified.
Example 2: Driver stumbles and steps on vehicle. Judges stop time to ensure driver has stable footing, and to assess vehicle position. No advantage is seen, so time starts and driver resumes without reposition.
Example 3: Vehicle falls and hits driver, coming to rest further downhill. Judges stop time and assess that no advantage was made from the fall, so time restarts and driver resumes.
Further issues I would like to address: 1.9 class should really be called a Mini class. Most 1.9 vehicles on the market are 1/10th scale, while our 1.9 class is 1/18th scale. Thusly, I feel the name does not properly reflect the class as pertaining to the market.
Course design should be planned so that 75% of the people can finish all non-finals courses. This might cause a points tie for the highest ranking drivers, which can be broken with course times, individual course scores (as already done), or finals course(s). There is no reason that courses should take a lucky bounce or jump to complete. To encourage more course completion, I have made the 40pt course max an optional judging requirement. I will also work on a more descriptive section in the rules to convey these ideas.
Solitaire
RCC Addict
A minor housekeeping suggestion regarding this rule...
"Vehicle chassis with body measurements must be minimum 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height."
...just in case there are some that still want to use a body similar in size to the Xciter or the Hardline.
Yeah, I can see it now!
Using a typical bodiless chassis, less cab, and stick a ~2" wide Micro Crawler body onto it.
* The lexan body (possibly combined with the chassis) will fulfil the 3" height requirement.
* The chassis will provide the 8" length.
* The front and/or rear of the chassis will provide the 3" width.
That should be legal...
Using a typical bodiless chassis, less cab, and stick a ~2" wide Micro Crawler body onto it.
* The lexan body (possibly combined with the chassis) will fulfil the 3" height requirement.
* The chassis will provide the 8" length.
* The front and/or rear of the chassis will provide the 3" width.
That should be legal...
binaryterror
I wanna be Dave
Most Micro bodies fail to meet the 1" hood/roof dimension.
According to 2.5.1 it's chassis to roof that needs to be at least 1". Shouldn't be a problem...
tapped-out
I wanna be Dave
IMHO modified body 2.2s body rule should read.
Rules have been clarified for 2.2S/2.2M body measurements,
Minimum measurement for a 2.2s/2.2M class body are
A.3 x B. 8 x C. 3. (Not incuding chassis).
Or
This (below) was pulled from 2.2M usrcca 2013 rules, should be the same for 2.2s..
▪ 2.3.6 -*Vehicle body/ bodiless measurements must be 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
Just copy & paste rule 2.3.6 into 2.2s rules.
Should be that simple it works for 2.2M.
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The way its written there I can shoe horn a lexan body into my 2.2M chassis and fit a skid and tranny and run it in 2.2S ........ And Im legal.
(it may not fit into the rules directly but its an example of what it leaves open for interpretation)
I agree - 2.2s should not include chassis measurements
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binaryterror
I wanna be Dave
So now I have to have a 8"x3"x3" body, but bodiless guys get a 1"x3"3" body. Sounds like playing favorites.
If the chassis is included in the bodiless dimensions, then they should be in the body trucks.
tapped-out
I wanna be Dave
Your 1" vs 8" aren't the same, bodiless demension must meet
8 inches in length of chassis, be 3 inches wide @ some point on chassis & 3 inches tall.
As for body demension 3"x 8" x 3"
It's been this way in 2.2M/pro for years now, seems to me it hasn't been a issue in 2.2M class.
Point being those are the rules build a rig to fit into the spec of said class & run it
IMO rules need to stop being changed.
A lot of Bodied chassis that I've owned aren't 8 inches long, I believe that's why bodiless chassis need to be 8 inches long in efforts to keep it fair.
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binaryterror
I wanna be Dave
You are right, I meant to compare 8"x3"x3" and 8"x1"x3".
As I've asked using older rules, the body never included the height of the chassis below the body.
However as this thread has pointed out, in 2016 the entire bodiless or body rig is the same 8"x3"x3" measurement including the chassis.
You can not penalize someone running a body and make their body be 8"x3"x3" and yet the Cab of a bodiless be 1"x3"x3" and include the additional needed height as the chassis. Why would you not want to include the same chassis in the overall dimensions?
Though the rules do have a unusual loop hole that has never before been exploited that I know of. If I can't get it built on my truck in time I'll present it in images for the rules team to discuss.
As I've asked using older rules, the body never included the height of the chassis below the body.
However as this thread has pointed out, in 2016 the entire bodiless or body rig is the same 8"x3"x3" measurement including the chassis.
You can not penalize someone running a body and make their body be 8"x3"x3" and yet the Cab of a bodiless be 1"x3"x3" and include the additional needed height as the chassis. Why would you not want to include the same chassis in the overall dimensions?
Though the rules do have a unusual loop hole that has never before been exploited that I know of. If I can't get it built on my truck in time I'll present it in images for the rules team to discuss.
tapped-out
I wanna be Dave
The Cab is included in the 3" height spec. Muesured from skid to roof line. I think because the cab isn't removable.
Because a Body is removable that's why the 3" hight Spec. is muesured from side of body to roof line.
The width is the other 3" spec same in both Bodied & bodiless rig
Bodiless still need to meet the 8" length spec. Same as Bodied rig
Unless you ment 8" x 1" x 3"
Never the less I guess it's up to JRH.
Bodiless & Bodied rigs both have their own pros and cons.
I think if JRH just keep the body specs for 2.2s & 2.2M @ 8 x 3 x 3 measured from the body will simplify the rule set. Just how it's been in 2.2M class for a few years now.
binaryterror my apologies if I'm not understanding.
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tapped-out
I wanna be Dave
If JRH just edits below
2.2S measurements, so that body and chassis together are used for the 8x3x3 measurement.
To
2.2S body measurements, are taken from body (8" x 3"x 3")
I think that clarifies the body spec requirements.
▪ 2.3.6 -*Vehicle body/ bodiless measurements must be 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
2.2S measurements, so that body and chassis together are used for the 8x3x3 measurement.
To
2.2S body measurements, are taken from body (8" x 3"x 3")
I think that clarifies the body spec requirements.
▪ 2.3.6 -*Vehicle body/ bodiless measurements must be 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
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Hi guys
Looks like you're having fun.
Looks like you're having fun.
Added "greater than or equal to" on all classes, and reworded the 2.2S measuring to say that "body" measurements include chassis with installed body.
▪ 2.5.6 - Bodied Vehicles only, typically a lexan body that is removable from chassis. Bodiless vehicles are prohibited. Bodies must be of original width and resemble a 1:1 vehicle with cab, door, and hood panels. Vehicle “body” measurements include chassis with installed body, and must be greater than or equal to 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
▪ 2.5.6 - Bodied Vehicles only, typically a lexan body that is removable from chassis. Bodiless vehicles are prohibited. Bodies must be of original width and resemble a 1:1 vehicle with cab, door, and hood panels. Vehicle “body” measurements include chassis with installed body, and must be greater than or equal to 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.
Solitaire
RCC Addict
Parhaps, sometime in the next couple of months, we can get a set of rules marked 2016. Other than the recently edited (and likely edited further) Google doc in the first post, all my printed stuff says 2013.
