What happened

[Sherman]

I agree, I prefer forums much more over the format of social media. Sure, there's the instant gratification of your stuff being posted at the top, but like others above mentioned, there's the loss of the collected knowledge of a forum where you can search, link, and browse years worth of questions and answers.

Now, I administered a forum for about five years a decade ago and it's rough going lol. A lot of moderation, a lot of rules and sticking to them. We saw a lot of "newbies" who want to just ask all the basic questions that have already been answered and the easiest knee-jerk reaction is to tell them "this has already been asked, go search for it" or to flat out ignore it...but all that does is create a sense of unfriendliness or grumpiness in the community. Sure, it's annoying as hell when each week someone asks the same questions...but as a community we have to bite our tongue and gently remind others how and where to find the information. Not everyone has even used a forum before!

That's my two cents. I love forum communities, but I don't like when they start to turn unfriendly towards the new, underexperienced members when we should be instead teaching these whipper snappers how to use the forum properly and helping turn them into seasoned forum pros.

I'm glad I'm back in the forum community and really enjoy this forum.

 

[high plains drifter]

I agree, I prefer forums much more over the format of social media. Sure, there's the instant gratification of your stuff being posted at the top, but like others above mentioned, there's the loss of the collected knowledge of a forum where you can search, link, and browse years worth of questions and answers.

Now, I administered a forum for about five years a decade ago and it's rough going lol. A lot of moderation, a lot of rules and sticking to them. We saw a lot of "newbies" who want to just ask all the basic questions that have already been answered and the easiest knee-jerk reaction is to tell them "this has already been asked, go search for it" or to flat out ignore it...but all that does is create a sense of unfriendliness or grumpiness in the community. Sure, it's annoying as hell when each week someone asks the same questions...but as a community we have to bite our tongue and gently remind others how and where to find the information. Not everyone has even used a forum before!

That's my two cents. I love forum communities, but I don't like when they start to turn unfriendly towards the new, underexperienced members when we should be instead teaching these whipper snappers how to use the forum properly and helping turn them into seasoned forum pros.

I'm glad I'm back in the forum community and really enjoy this forum.

As someone who was once a forum moderator, I'd have to agree with all of this. Still surprises me when a noob seeks some advice and one or more members berate them. Back in the day it was more understandable as a community could pick and choose who to slam... and there's the old mantra of "Better develop a thick skin if you're going to fit in" but forums are much smaller and less active now and I think it's better for the community as a whole, to be a bit more forgiving and friendly.

Doesn't mean that the noob can't take some ribbing amd it certainly doesn't mean that the community is hostile but like you said... maybe they're new to forums and feel a bit uneasy. Having someone jump on you, even in the vein of "just fooling around/ take a joke" doesn't necessarily make someone want to stick around. I think the jabs are better suited among members that have been around a while and sort of know each others personalities. A lot of us are older now too and we don't always take kindly to getting jumped on.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

As someone who was once a forum moderator, I'd have to agree with all of this. Still surprises me when a noob seeks some advice and one or more members berate them. Back in the day it was more understandable as a community could pick and choose who to slam... and there's the old mantra of "Better develop a thick skin if you're going to fit in" but forums are much smaller and less active now and I think it's better for the community as a whole, to be a bit more forgiving and friendly.

Doesn't mean that the noob can't take some ribbing amd it certainly doesn't mean that the community is hostile but like you said... maybe they're new to forums and feel a bit uneasy. Having someone jump on you, even in the vein of "just fooling around/ take a joke" doesn't necessarily make someone want to stick around. I think the jabs are better suited among members that have been around a while and sort of know each others personalities. A lot of us are older now too and we don't always take kindly to getting jumped on.

This place was pretty brutal to noobs back in the day. Some guys were flat out dicks. The "cooler than thou" attitude was ever present. I was a dick back to them whereas some newbies cower. As a result, I bumped heads with a lot of the vets at the time. I'm still a dick and still here so maybe I'm part of the problem, but I try to be as helpful to people as possible when they are open to it.

 

[cooper_xl]

I know personally I spent more time over on ScaleRC4x4 and when it went belly up I lost a ton of pics, contacts etc and it kinda made me stay away from the hobby a bit. Add in medical issues and money issues and I've felt kinda like I don't have much to contribute most of the time unless someone is asking a question or see a build that interests me.

Losing scale4x4 was big. Plenty of info was lost


What I find odd is that we, builders, never had so much choice. Chassis, tires, wheels, axles...we have 3D printing now to make bodies and customs parts...but the builds are fewer and less ambitious

 

[high plains drifter]

This place was pretty brutal to noobs back in the day. Some guys were flat out dicks. The "cooler than thou" attitude was ever present. I was a dick back to them whereas some newbies cower. As a result, I bumped heads with a lot of the vets at the time. I'm still a dick and still here so maybe I'm part of the problem, but I try to be as helpful to people as possible when they are open to it.

You're like one of my favorite Asian dishes... sweet & sour! I may need to evaluate my metaphor there but you know what I mean. Yeah, you're still rough sometimes but it seems to me that you as well as most people have toned it down a couple notches in recent years. I applaud you for the way that you interact with people on here... noobs and old-timers alike. Can't just be a dick all the time or you begin to alienate yourself from the rest of the community.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with being brutally honest and at times there's plenty of reason to throttle someone... especially if they double-down on misinformation or if they blow a gasket over a little jab. If you're that easily offended then don't escalate things. Just say you don't agree or you think whomever is out of bounds but if you stand up for yourself, do it in a way that doesn't instantly confirm your immaturity or how easily offended you get. There's ways to disagree and still maintain composure.

The ones that get me are those that come to a forum... create an account, log in, etc... just to ask one question with absolutely no further interaction. Community members show an interest in your project and try to have some dialogue with you but boom... you're already gone with no plans to ever come back. Not a "thanks for the great advice", no follow up... nothing. Those folks irritate me. People taking time to help you out but you just expect it. I guess it just comes naturally for self-entitled douche-bags with the instant-gratification mentality... treating an online community like FB or IG or something.

 

[JimrC]

I rarely post any questions as a newbie to the hobby. I have a hunch that anything I have to ask ... someone has already done so and the searching begins through the wealth of info on here ... one of the reasons I enjoy and appreciate forums. Another, is the wide range of helpful peeps on here Forums rock, all social media can go but I am an auld git set in his ways

I should partake more though lol

 

[JatoTheRipper]

You're like one of my favorite Asian dishes... sweet & sour! I may need to evaluate my metaphor there but you know what I mean. Yeah, you're still rough sometimes but it seems to me that you as well as most people have toned it down a couple notches in recent years. I applaud you for the way that you interact with people on here... noobs and old-timers alike. Can't just be a dick all the time or you begin to alienate yourself from the rest of the community.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with being brutally honest and at times there's plenty of reason to throttle someone... especially if they double-down on misinformation or if they blow a gasket over a little jab. If you're that easily offended then don't escalate things. Just say you don't agree or you think whomever is out of bounds but if you stand up for yourself, do it in a way that doesn't instantly confirm your immaturity or how easily offended you get. There's ways to disagree and still maintain composure.

The ones that get me are those that come to a forum... create an account, log in, etc... just to ask one question with absolutely no further interaction. Community members show an interest in your project and try to have some dialogue with you but boom... you're already gone with no plans to ever come back. Not a "thanks for the great advice", no follow up... nothing. Those folks irritate me. People taking time to help you out but you just expect it. I guess it just comes naturally for self-entitled douche-bags with the instant-gratification mentality... treating an online community like FB or IG or something.

Haha thanks! I think that's a decent assessment of me.

I also agree about there being nothing wrong with being brutally honest. But some people think that I should take feelings into account before speaking like that. My sister said it best a few weeks ago when my girlfriend and I went to dinner with her and her husband. We don't sugar coat things and why should we have to? It was the way I was raised. Now people are so sensitive and this brutal honestly and bluntness rubs people the wrong way.

I may have some sociopath traits in my personality. I have little to no empathy for the average person.

I rarely post any questions as a newbie to the hobby. I have a hunch that anything I have to ask ... someone has already done so and the searching begins through the wealth of info on here ... one of the reasons I enjoy and appreciate forums. Another, is the wide range of helpful peeps on here Forums rock, all social media can go but I am an auld git set in his ways

I should partake more though lol

Please post up questions! I don't care if it has already been asked. That was an attitude to have when the forum was busy. Now, we only have a few new posts a day if we are lucky. Anything to generate conversation is good IMO. The lack of activity will chase people away from this site more than anything.

 

[Sherman]

Loving the discussion here! I'll definitely be posting more questions when some of my hardware arrives later this week and I start trying to shorten my wheelbase. I'm already appreciative of the help I've been given so far.

 

[diezel666]

The major issue with Forums and Social media, can be put aside with ONE simple comment when posting to people.

"The way I do / Have done it is:" - Instead of coming off from a point of "My way is the only way!" one will come off as, there are multiple ways to do something, here's how I chose to do it. This solves a lot of heartburn.

I see that happening around here more and more, in different ways, and it's refreshing to see people and their take on how they do something, and not be completely egotistical about it. Hence why I'm staying.

 

[350TacoZilla]

Losing scale4x4 was big. Plenty of info was lost


What I find odd is that we, builders, never had so much choice. Chassis, tires, wheels, axles...we have 3D printing now to make bodies and customs parts...but the builds are fewer and less ambitious

I remember thinking early on that 3d printers were going to be the biggest thing to change the RC and model car hobby's but I just never got the extra money to buy into it.

 

[psn]

Here, a nice build could span 5-30 pages and offer a wealth of info along the way. But on FB and Reddit, it's often 10 replies and its done. Thats the apex of the super short attention spans there.

 

[cooper_xl]

Here, a nice build could span 5-30 pages and offer a wealth of info along the way. But on FB and Reddit, it's often 10 replies and its done. Thats the apex of the super short attention spans there.

I just posted my M548 on IG after completion. 15 posts,each showing a different aspect..Those posts mirrored the 2 year long RCC thread? with the up,downs and doing stuff again but better? no way

 

[K.O.M.]

General observations from someone that recently joined the RC aviation community:

That community has been considered dead for a long time; the core group of people that are there or remain are mostly up to and beyond retirement age. A large part of "why" is that aviation is pretty unforgiving of any mistakes; if you make a simple stupid or uninformed piloting error, your flight time will be measured in seconds. That can get frustrating to a lot of people real quick. The additional requirements to anything that weighs beyond 250g is also a somewhat confusing thing for someone that is casual about joining this hobby. Those are frequently cited as the reasons they didn't get far too deep into RC aviation, but there truly must be something more.

I bring this up because RC crawlers and trail trucks (generally RC sruface vehicles as a whole) are mirroring what's happened to RC airplanes. At one point everyone needed to build something in order to fly or have a well functioning crawler/trial truck. You needed a community in order to pull that off, as the collective knowledge was *required* to speed up innovation and to pass along knowledge.

Now, just about everyone can order an ARTF foam airplane or get an RTR rig and fly or drive into the sunset.

I blame social media, but not for the obvious reasons. Back at the peak of both RC planes and RC cars, these things were *cool.* Now everyone has been conditioned to normalize truly outrageous and phenomenal examples of everything imaginable. It's quite sobering to find out that your $200-$300 and no driving or flying skills will not get you the same result as the video clip you just saw on YouTube or Instagram.

But that phenomenon just highlights a generational difference--people today just are not "joiners." Everyone is very casual, no one wants to commit to anything--people, careers--so why would they commit to a toy hobby?

 

[89Industries]

General observations from someone that recently joined the RC aviation community:

That community has been considered dead for a long time; the core group of people that are there or remain are mostly up to and beyond retirement age. A large part of "why" is that aviation is pretty unforgiving of any mistakes; if you make a simple stupid or uninformed piloting error, your flight time will be measured in seconds. That can get frustrating to a lot of people real quick. The additional requirements to anything that weighs beyond 250g is also a somewhat confusing thing for someone that is casual about joining this hobby. Those are frequently cited as the reasons they didn't get far too deep into RC aviation, but there truly must be something more.

I bring this up because RC crawlers and trail trucks (generally RC sruface vehicles as a whole) are mirroring what's happened to RC airplanes. At one point everyone needed to build something in order to fly or have a well functioning crawler/trial truck. You needed a community in order to pull that off, as the collective knowledge was *required* to speed up innovation and to pass along knowledge.

Now, just about everyone can order an ARTF foam airplane or get an RTR rig and fly or drive into the sunset.

I blame social media, but not for the obvious reasons. Back at the peak of both RC planes and RC cars, these things were *cool.* Now everyone has been conditioned to normalize truly outrageous and phenomenal examples of everything imaginable. It's quite sobering to find out that your $200-$300 and no driving or flying skills will not get you the same result as the video clip you just saw on YouTube or Instagram.

But that phenomenon just highlights a generational difference--people today just are not "joiners." Everyone is very casual, no one wants to commit to anything--people, careers--so why would they commit to a toy hobby?

Certainly some good points here. There are 2 RC airports within about 20 minute drive of my house but both require membership and membership in another aeronautics association. So I didn't want to make quite that much of a commitment or be anywhere near that serious about a fun hobby. I totally get why there is that minimum threshold to get into airplanes though. Nobody wants to spend tons of money and time on a plane to then have someone crash into it and destroy it in seconds. So I bought a cheap, small, easy to fly RTF last month and plan to go to the open space next to my neighborhood to fly it.

I also agree with a lot of your other ideas. The internet social media does really set the bar high if you think comparing yourself to others is needed. Kind of like the body size/shape issues surrounding social media.

I'd also add that there is other stuff for younger people to do than there used to be. Playing a video game can be quite realistic and exciting and works well for short attention span, low commitment generations. Taking an RC truck out is downright boring comparatively if you don't get the gratification, sense of accomplishment of building it yourself or getting better as a driver, etc.

Honestly the bike industry has been having similar issues getting younger people involved and kids bike sales have declined for years (except a couple blips like Covid-era). They've started all sorts of youth bike programs with varying levels of success. There are now high school mountain bike leagues and so on, but there's just a lot more other things for people to do.

 

[K.O.M.]

There are 2 RC airports within about 20 minute drive of my house but both require membership and membership in another aeronautics association. {edited for length} So I bought a cheap, small, easy to fly RTF last month and plan to go to the open space next to my neighborhood to fly it.

I'd also add that there is other stuff for younger people to do than there used to be. {edited for length}

Honestly the bike industry has been having similar issues getting younger people involved and kids bike sales have declined for years (except a couple blips like Covid-era). They've started all sorts of youth bike programs with varying levels of success. There are now high school mountain bike leagues and so on...

My 11 y.o. asked for an Eflight UMX Nightvapor for his birthday a few months ago. I don't know what sparked his interest in aviation, but I am a low time private pilot and have been flying since 2020, and he didn't seem to be interested in the boring planes I flew back then; he sat in the cockpit of my Cherokee one time and said "cool."

He quickly outgrew that and wanted something he can fly higher, faster, farther and that's how we started getting into RC planes. I, like you, was a bit apprehensive about having to join the AMA and join the local club chapter and register with the FAA to get a number. The truth is, you owe it to yourself to actually visit the local airfields and meet the people there, BEFORE passing any judgement. We are lucky to have a good group of people there, and enough depth to have several programs for new pilots and youth. The rest of the administrative stuff I was able to do in less than one hour, with a credit card and a few mouse clicks. Sure, I was out $300 before I even owned an RC plane, but my son and I wrecked 4 of the club's training planes when we first started, and we have received no less than 5 aircraft as gifts from fellow club members clearing out their fleet; the membership fees have more than paid for itself more than 4x over.

If only I can clone the people, camaraderie, and general atmosphere of this club and apply it as a model to other clubs not just RC. One problem remains, and that is to get the word out and get people's foot in the door, so to speak, and I think we still have a long ways to go in terms of outreach and education. That applies to most aspect of the RC hobby as well.

That's where the efforts seem to be most draining from those on the inside. How many "casuals" do we need to attract to any of our planned events to get 1 member under the age of 18? How many to get an adult member to stay for more than one season? That's really the tough part, because the fact is, it takes a healthy commitment to continue in this hobby.

 

[ferp420]

i bought a ready to fly plane flew it a few times got board of it in about 2 battery packs
i let my freind fly it he went through about 2 packs and crashed it and broke the prop i bought a bunch of new parts for it but havent touched it since
nither of us ever flew a rc plane before so getting 4 packs before we broke it was pretty good my first plane dident even make it off the ground before splintering in to 100 peices of balsa wood then i never got the motor started again

my bigest issue with planes is there hard to see when they get up there

 

[Sherman]

I saw a lot of this same thing about ten years ago in the costume community. I think it's just something that happens. We made armor and over time we perfected techniques that made really accurate looking armor. However, some would come in with shortcuts and saw social media posts where you could just trace the armor pattern to a rubbermaid trash can and cut it out. However, while this method is barebones cheap...it wasn't the most effective. The plastic was created in such a way to retain the original trash can shape, so it was hard to bend/mold how you wanted it which often ended up in improper fitment and looks. It was designed to be stain proof, so painting it became a hassle and often ended up with crappy paint jobs or chipping paint. It was also thin as hell, so it looked unrealistic compared to what we were trying to emulate.

We often tried to remind folks that saving up for a little while and putting in a little extra effort could make for a much better presentation, but often they couldn't or wouldn't wait and you couldn't deter them. I think it's the "instant gratification" mentality, which I'm sure we all get from time to time. But wanting it right now and to be part of it with the least effort. Ignoring advice and going the long way/hard way because it's cheaper or easier in their mind.

All we could do was offer the advice, hope they took it, and hoped they would at the least come back and see the light.

 

[K.O.M.]

my biggest issue with planes is there hard to see when they get up there

That's the Catch-22 of RC airplanes.

Someone new will need a plane that will take some crashes or at least some rough landings. Smaller planes have less mass, and therefore break fewer things, but they also react faster, which means you need to be a better pilot. So you try to fly them farther or higher away to get more time in between inputs, but then they are so small that you lose orientation. Even a 1.5m (5 ft.) wingspan plane becomes somewhat small even at 100-200 ft. away, at 100 ft. altitude.

 

[K.O.M.]

Steering the thread back to crawlers/scalers, I can totally see why there is a move toward smaller scale than 1/10 from the major brands: the initial cost is smaller, there are more places to drive the vehicles.

Ultimately, the manufacturers are going to have to start subsidizing storefronts and tracks and/or courses to run these if they want growth. I like to look at the industry as a whole, and take lessons from static models, slot cars, trains, and airplanes.

As I get older, the time seems to go faster, but we had sort of another run at RC aircraft with the advent of photo/video quadcopters that had stabilization. I would say peak quadcopter was around 2015; even Traxxas had a quad. For reference, DJI released the Phantom 1 in 2013, and there have been custom fabbed muti-rotors as far back as 2007/8, so we've had a nearly 20 year run now.

RC cars seems to have have had multiple peaks with the mid-late 80's for off road, on-road from the mid-90's to early-mid 00's thanks in large part to Tamiya's TCS series.

The largest category I see was with the advent of "bashers." It's harder to quantify a niche within a niche hobby, which is where I see drift, comp crawl, scale, and trail lie.