Rules for 2015

[TURTLE]

Well I am a judge this year. So i got my eye on you two! LOL

If the truck is falling and a guy catches it it's 10points. If he quickly grabs his winch while falling and uses his winch also its 13 points.

Unless the event organizers say differently.

Sounds like the perfect call to me. And we will be going over things like this at the judges meeting. The vehicle needs to be stable before a winch is called. If in anyway the vehicle is unstable when the driver calls his winch it will be a reposition for 10 points to the last gate cleared.

Unstable will be defined as falling or moving because the vehicle can not hold itself in place.

 

[holycaveman]

"thumbsup"

 

[johnnyh66]

Is "self righting" a rig allowed?
Last year at King Of Guru's I rolled and a judge got in the way... I was able to right the rig on it's own power and continue... had the judge not stopped momentum, I think I coulda drove out of it.

 

[holycaveman]

I hope so. 1:1's do it.

 

[ToyZuki]

Well I am a judge this year. So i got my eye on you two! LOL

If the truck is falling and a guy catches it it's 10points. If he quickly grabs his winch while falling and uses his winch also its 13 points.

Unless the event organizers say differently.

If he catches his truck, the clock stops and he gets repositioned to the last progressed gate. Hopefully next attempt he's smart enough to pull his winch before the truck is unstable! In the real world of sorcca rules, if the truck becomes unstable and rolls down the hill, possibly takes out gates below, ends up on his lid, which is why you pull your winch before the rig is unstable..

No harm done in making sure the truck doesn't move while pulling cable. The grey area in the wording is how do you separate driving time, and its time to winch. I think the driver at minimum should have to get permission from the judge to do so, and the rig is parked while waiting for permission. Would be much easier to just stick to sorcca rules, those guys have spent countless hours discussing the wording to remove the grey areas.

And like you said, its up to the event organizers, I just won't hold a clipboard this year.

 

[hotwheels000]

I dont see holding my truck in place as any sort of a "safety"measure. Being able to set your remote down so you can steady yourself ? REALLY,do we all not walk on our feet, we are not chimps.... how is taking your footing away so you can hold your truck in place safe ?

You are a bunch safer with both your feet firmly planted on any hill or obsticle you may encounter than you are precariously perched hoovering above your rig on one leg/knee.

This holding the truck in place for safety is not a safety issue, it is something that has been adopted at a local level and being passed off under the guise of safety....

If it is deemed acceptable there better be some very stringent guidelines on when and how it can be performed at the judges meeting and that outcome clearly conveyed to the drivers at the drivers meeting or you are going to have a chit storm over whom performed it properly and who didnt.

What if time.... what if your cable is rat nested on the spool, You decide to kneel on your truck to perform the winch. Now you can firmly plant the rig with 180 lbs and jerk on the cable to undo the rats nest... perfectly legal in the name of safety, right ?:shock: I remember when if at any time you altered the attitude of the truck trying to ready your winch hook and cable for a pull it was a touch.

What if you are kneeling on the truck and begin the winching process ? When do you need to let go ? Who decides if you kneeled or held the truck to long ?


Best not to even open this can of worms and have the drivers make intelligent decisions before laying on there truck in the name of safety. Safety begins long before you need to pull cable and those decisions do also."thumbsup"


I would love to hear opinions on this from competitors that will be at the event. A open and honest discussion before hand could go a long ways.

 

[ToyZuki]

maybe we're looking at it wrong! Putting your radio down to brace your body is definetly a plus in safety! It gives you 2 hands and 2 feet to balance our bodies!!

In the name of safety, I think making a foolish decision to waste your second hand, that could be keeping you safe to hold a silly toy truck and keep it safe is a huge safety concern in my book!

Wasting a hand to hold your truck could seriously hurt someone!

 

[holycaveman]

I can't wait to comp with you guys! As serious as you sound I am really looking forward to this. I am not coming across the US for second place either. So if the courses are easy and the judging is lazy. I don't have a chance in hell.

But i have a feeling it's going to work out fine.
Toyzuki you are right. It's a reposition.
As far as steadiness goes. it's always up to the organizer as usual. But time is only stopped to my knowledge if the driver has to reposition himself. During which time nothing can go on with the truck. All winch usage/on course rats nest ...whatever is on the clock. From the the second "winch" is called the clock is running. Again the only time the clock would stop is if the driver stops his rc and physically reposition himself. Then clock is started.

If the event organizer runs it another way then that is out of my hands.

 

[TURTLE]

Perhaps hold is the wrong vernacular, hold defined here in is keeping your vehicle from moving. Herein it does not mean lay on top of, stand on or hold firmly in place with your hand. More so it is define as keeping your vehicle from rolling uncontrolled. We looked at it as putting a legal or body behind the vehicle, not on top of it.

We don't use this locally, but it has been used several times at national events. we looked back and adopted things that made sense. The fact that we pointed this out online instead of at the event like the others did means that we are open to suggestion, but our point still stands that this is for safety and no other reason. There will be climbs that you will want to winch that are big enough were people will be doing this. This is new terrain for many of you and trust us with some of these decisions. In all reality this entire argument is a moot point, a capable vehicle will probably not have to winch at all at the event.

 

[ToyZuki]

Perhaps hold is the wrong vernacular, hold defined here in is keeping your vehicle from moving. Herein it does not mean lay on top of, stand on or hold firmly in place with your hand. More so it is define as keeping your vehicle from rolling uncontrolled. We looked at it as putting a legal or body behind the vehicle, not on top of it.

We don't use this locally, but it has been used several times at national events. we looked back and adopted things that made sense. The fact that we pointed this out online instead of at the event like the others did means that we are open to suggestion, but our point still stands that this is for safety and no other reason. There will be climbs that you will want to winch that are big enough were people will be doing this. This is new terrain for many of you and trust us with some of these decisions. In all reality this entire argument is a moot point, a capable vehicle will probably not have to winch at all at the event.

Now your onto something. The problem with rules is the guy writing them has an idea in his head of its a foot behind the rig, yet the guy reading the rule feels free to drive his rig into an ignorant position because he can quickly place his hand, leg, foot on the rig to "hold" it in place!

I know you have good intentions here, but can of worms is the outcome without tons of wording that people will pick apart to get the advantage.

 

[hotwheels000]

Thanks for a bit of clarification.

It happened at MSD nationals, wasnt planned just happened by a competitor from a certain region that was acustomed to doing so and it wasnt received well, it didnt happen the next year at that event nor did it didnt happen at NW scale nats the following year because the practice was unnecessary protocal and had more negitives accosiated with it than any perceived positives. It happened again at SW scale nats and there were once again questions and controversy.

I refuse to believe holding, balancing, coercing the truck or whatever you want to call it is a safety issue. If you are worried about a rig rolling down a hill and injuring a spectator cordone off the area so a runaway truck doesnt put folks in harms way. If it is the drivers safety... let the driver call a safety timeout or have the judge suggest that to the driver to protect them selves. OR, build coarses that these scenarios dont occur. Problem solved.

I am not trying to be a dick or anything, but I see this as a driving compitition, part of that is knowing how and when to use your winch properly. The difference between drivers is how well they manage all aspects ot the rig including the decision of calling time, stopping the rig at a safe location or just plain old know how to hold the rig in position with the throttle while hooking up the winch. Many compititions are won buy a few points and that roll back can and will make the difference.


So, good driving and great coarse design along with the elimination of as many descrepancies as possible will make for a AWSOME WEEKEND for all. At the end of the day we are all playing with our trucks, reuniting with old freinds and meeting new ones. I dont wont something like touching your truck inappropriatly leaving a bad taste in anyones mouth:mrgreen:

 

[sam63]

Thanks for a bit of clarification.

It happened at MSD nationals, wasnt planned just happened by a competitor from a certain region that was acustomed to doing so and it wasnt received well, it didnt happen the next year at that event nor did it didnt happen at NW scale nats the following year because the practice was unnecessary protocal and had more negitives accosiated with it than any perceived positives. It happened again at SW scale nats and there were once again questions and controversy.

I refuse to believe holding, balancing, coercing the truck or whatever you want to call it is a safety issue. If you are worried about a rig rolling down a hill and injuring a spectator cordone off the area so a runaway truck doesnt put folks in harms way. If it is the drivers safety... let the driver call a safety timeout or have the judge suggest that to the driver to protect them selves. OR, build coarses that these scenarios dont occur. Problem solved.

I am not trying to be a dick or anything, but I see this as a driving compitition, part of that is knowing how and when to use your winch properly. The difference between drivers is how well they manage all aspects ot the rig including the decision of calling time, stopping the rig at a safe location or just plain old know how to hold the rig in position with the throttle while hooking up the winch. Many compititions are won buy a few points and that roll back can and will make the difference.


So, good driving and great coarse design along with the elimination of as many descrepancies as possible will make for a AWSOME WEEKEND for all. At the end of the day we are all playing with our trucks, reuniting with old freinds and meeting new ones. I dont wont something like touching your truck inappropriatly leaving a bad taste in anyones mouth:mrgreen:

Im not going to be there this year but I thought I would chime in just because this discussion could set a precedence for future events. For one I am with Devlin on this. It is just unrealistic to perform a "hold" on a car from rolling back during winching. If the car is rolling back in a 1:1 event it rolls the **ck back. Everyone on course has to be aware of whats going on and stay out of the way if a car gets away from somebody.

Here is an example that comes to mind for me. What if a car clears a gate and cant continue without winching? Say the gate was at the base of a climb and to stop the car from rolling back into the gate with the rear tire the driver quickly pulls the "hold" card and saves hitting the gate. They pull winch and all is good. I for one would hate to see something like this and call BS. This kind of thing could easily happen from a tricky course design and/or low traction terrain.

In reality with 6 minute courses winching should be minimal and if you do you better haul ass.

Just my thoughts guys. I know this will be a great event that Ty and crew will have dialed in for everyone showing up to have fun and those few driving for scale bragging rights;-).

May the cars all be scale and the winching be legit:lmao:

 

[TURTLE]

Well we posted this before hand so all could be clear going into this event. If you guys want I will put up a poll to leave as is or remove. If at least 20 people participate in the poll I will stand by what ever side of the poll wins. How about it?

 

[War Pig]

Well we posted this before hand so all could be clear going into this event. If you guys want I will put up a poll to leave as is or remove. If at least 20 people participate in the poll I will stand by what ever side of the poll wins. How about it?

I think that sounds like a fair idea.

 

[bmuzz1]

I second that "thumbsup"

 

[bmuzz1]

With 6 minute courses winches on 3s will be a must. :twisted:

 

[hotwheels000]

Its appreciated Ty, thank you for listening.

 

[foratm]

Are we allowed to run servo on axle? I have a u4 chassis but it is not designed to run a chassis mounted servo.

 

[stroker613]

Its treacherous terrain and the main goal here is safety for our participants. "thumbsup"

 

[Big Daddy]

I must be too much of a rule follower, since most of the shady stuff doesn't occur to me to try.
Just to muddy the waters some more, and to dissuade people from abusing a safety concern, how about a "hold" penalty (5pts?). Usually the distance between a rig being unstable and it just sitting there minding it's own business is only a few inches. A driver should have a pretty good idea if they are going to have to pull line and they should also know where their rig will sit safely. If their isn't a safe way for drivers to get themselves and their rigs through the course, then that shouldn't be a course.