More Dig Questions but with research...

[JeremyH]

Tanis and Solomon, Have either of you ever looked at a S3R dig up close?

It works fine, but since I picked it up, I found out there are some legal issues with DNA, so I won't be keeping it.;-)

Again I did not start out to bash DNA just show how different they really are but on RCC anything that is not happy happy joy joy about a product is taken as such. I guess I wanted to UN bash some of the bad things people on RCC think about the S3R dig.

Think what you want about the company but understand that their dig is first rate and innovative even if it shares things with the DNA unit.

I am sorry DNA but you got out classed at your own game.

You most certainly did start out by bashing....it was your FIRST sentence in this thread...and you continue to do so with every post.

No one here has questioned the stability and reliability of the S3R dig....simply their business practices. They have NO ethics. They might provide an excellent product, but without customer support, what happens to that product when/if it breaks? Where does that leave you, the customer? I KNOW what type of customer service I get from DNA....I have broken parts in my DNA dig (I guess full throttle digs with a 7T and 3S can be a bit hard on parts:mrgreen and they replaced them...no questions asked.

There are members on this board that were part of this hobby long before DNA and S3R....members that know what it is like to design and build your own parts simply because they were NOT available. These same members respect the fact that there are vendors that are into this hobby for right reasons. There are many differences between the companies DNA and S3R. The main one that I notice is that DNA designs innovative products for ALL aspects of this hobby (Ax-10, MRC, Wheelie King, Berg, Supers, etc.)....S3R seemed to jump on the Axial bandwagon and produce the products that have been proven to make money.

You can defend this company until the end of time, but to some people (myself included), business practices and customer service will win out EVERY time over cost.

 

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

Jeremy, well said and like you I follow those practices to the fullest.

It's about ethics fella's.

 

[bigflex]

That will be a tough call.

I can tell you from past experience that I have broken Hot Racing parts (within 5 minutes of use...a manufacturing defect) and made MANY attempts to contact that company.....all of which failed. No response from them AT ALL.

BTW, RC4WD was the first to create a dig like they have....however, it always comes bolted to their R2D tranny. I don't believe they make one for the Axial tranny...

to add to this, CKRC bought all there dig parts from RC4wd and mounted them on a plate they make. So its really just an RC4wd dig for the axial trans (basiclly). I also believe RC4wd was working on a deal with TCS to produce an axial trans dig using there parts and a plate that mounts on the oposite side of the trans than the CKRC unit.

 

[bigflex]

You most certainly did start out by bashing....it was your FIRST sentence in this thread...and you continue to do so with every post.

No one here has questioned the stability and reliability of the S3R dig....simply their business practices. They have NO ethics. They might provide an excellent product, but without customer support, what happens to that product when/if it breaks? Where does that leave you, the customer? I KNOW what type of customer service I get from DNA....I have broken parts in my DNA dig (I guess full throttle digs with a 7T and 3S can be a bit hard on parts:mrgreen and they replaced them...no questions asked.

There are members on this board that were part of this hobby long before DNA and S3R....members that know what it is like to design and build your own parts simply because they were NOT available. These same members respect the fact that there are vendors that are into this hobby for right reasons. There are many differences between the companies DNA and S3R. The main one that I notice is that DNA designs innovative products for ALL aspects of this hobby (Ax-10, MRC, Wheelie King, Berg, Supers, etc.)....S3R seemed to jump on the Axial bandwagon and produce the products that have been proven to make money.

You can defend this company until the end of time, but to some people (myself included), business practices and customer service will win out EVERY time over cost.

AMEN BROTHER! Some people I'm not going to name any names cough crawlincircles cough just don't get it. These are the same people that don't give a crap about much of anything these days. It is sad to see people totally disreguard the fact that some people actually work hundredes of hours designing then prototyping then testing then changing etc. etc. etc. Don has more hours in the designing of his dig unit then it takes people like S3R to pump out 5,000 copies of his product. The guys at DNA actually care about the customer. That should be obvious. Look at the new 2.2 and 1.9 SSS chassis's. It took a long time from the first prototype till he finalized it and put them up for sale. Why some might ask? Well its because he actually tested it out and kept tinkering with it till he got it to what he feals is the best all arround design. Anyone that will take that much time and put in that much effort desreves to get the profits from the product HE designed. You people need to wake up and realize that its S3R type of ethics that are killing this countries economy. People by products form China every day because its cheaper. They look just like the made in the U.S.A. stuff but at half the cost. Well it not only cost half as much but it will last half as long if your lucky. Not to mension the fact that you are sending oyur money out of country instead of supporting your fellow countrymen. I could keep going on this all day so I better stop before I write a book.:mrgreen:

 

[monkeyracer]

Ok, ok ok! That's enough with the S3R shit!

This thread is supposed to talk about digs, not revisit the crap that happened between S3R and DNA.

Let's all get this straight: DNA designed the dig. S3R "borrowed" one to make unauthorized improvements. DNA spent the time, effort, and money getting the design to work. S3R made a couple changes, and calls it a new dig. BOTH digs work, and they work fine. For me, and most people, I'd rather spend the money with the company that did the research and development to get the product made. Because let's all face it, if don and everyone at DNA didn't come up with the dig, S3R definitely wouldn't have.

That's the final word on the DNA and S3R stuff. There will be no more discussion in this thread about it, or else it will be reported to the mods/admins for deletion. You can start a thread in the chit chat session and post until you are blue in the face about it.

This thread is supposed to help those without a dig find the info they need to know about how the digs work, so they can make an informed decision about what they spend their money on. Some people are on a tight budget and can't afford to buy each and every dig to see what works for them, so they have to trust the advice of this forum. I wanted an objective view on the available digs rather than the "it sucks" threads, I wanted to know why, and if it was something that can be easily worked around.

I don't really care to know about your brand loyalty. I want to know what digs work, and are the best bang for your buck. Even though the S3R fits into that, their business practices make the dig a tainted item and that is something I will not promote.

So, if you have a dig, post up what dig you have, and your personal opinion on it's pro's and con's. If you've had multiple digs, I'd love to have your input.

 

[JeremyH]

MR, you wanted opinions, and that's what you got.

I have run three types of digs (R2D, DNA and Eritex) that I have purchased and each worked well. The R2D was loud and tough to engage/disengage, the DNA worked well, but I switched to the Eritex due to the lower weight.

 

[monkeyracer]

I updated the first post to add some information about what a dig is, and when to use it.

Maybe after some thread cleaning, this can become a sticky?

 

[salmonshark]

This thread has me excited! I am really wanting to make the upgrade to a dig, even though I only have a 2 position 3rd channel on my Tx. Just would love to lock the rear wheels - not too concerned yet about freewheel.

Thank you for all the information on the different digs available. I am eager to see how the VP's turn out, but I am too leaning towards the Eritex. Just need to save more pennies before getting one.

SS

 

[stampedeproject]

Thanks for the input. The provisionary filing was done that gives us time to fine tune the final filing. This filing covers as a patent until we finalize. This is to clear up any questions.

The filing number was posted on rcc if anyone wants to search it.

Go with a DNA or Eritex. These guys took the time, energy and expense to create these.

HR, Integy and the like are a bunch of rats that just they steal ideas then plead innocence and stupidity.

It's my opinion if you support in any way companies like Integy and Hot Racing - HR, you are hurting the industry as a whole. HR clearly knocked off the DNA dig (just like they did my SPV2 chassis), Integy is no better copying RCP's Hustler chassis and other products. I offered HR an out on the SPV2 copy, one that would save face for them and be affordable, they declined like they have with other copied manufacturer products. So HR is on my list of manufacturers that SUCK THE BIG ONE and I will never write articles about, review, buy, or recommend. We all should just boycott these copycats in entirety and they will eventually disapear.

The 3rd generation DNA digs are excellent. Blue anodizing looks sharp and the new steel internals make everything work flawlessly. Any problems I have had were due to me running a 1st gen prototype and then a shift rod unscrewing during actuation (like what happened this weekend). Overall the DNA is highly recommended by me.

Gerame's Eritex Dig is a little different animal and although I haven't tested one yet, all I have talked to in our club really like the units.

On any dig make sure your dig servo mount is attached directly to the transmission and not to a plate on the chassis. I originally had my dig servo mounted on the chassis and there is just enough flex that it affects the reliability of the dig's shifting or in my case on my 1st gen dig it wiggled the shifting rod loose.

 

[monkeyracer]

This thread has me excited! I am really wanting to make the upgrade to a dig, even though I only have a 2 position 3rd channel on my Tx. Just would love to lock the rear wheels - not too concerned yet about freewheel.

Thank you for all the information on the different digs available. I am eager to see how the VP's turn out, but I am too leaning towards the Eritex. Just need to save more pennies before getting one.

SS

This is the type of person who benefits from this thread. Someone like me that is still in the saving pennies doing research phase.

A 2-position 3rd channel will still work, but you will miss out on one of the three positions, usually the Freewheel position which is used way less than dig and 4WD.

 

[goodoldlevi]

The main things I have seen with the Eritex and the DNA is the Eritex dig works mutch better with a small servo where the Dna seams to like a little more power. When we set up the Eritex with a standard servo it over powered it causing a bind and actualy jacked up the entire trans when engaging it. But once we got it set up with minimal throw on the horn and dx3r it works great. The small size and weight is a bonus plus the fact that it works with whatever ouput you choose to use makes it a nice choice. I also like the fact that the drive shaft does not actual slide in and out so thats one less wear item to wory about.
The Dna that i use has always been there when I needed it I actually won it at the Crawling for kids comp. in Georgia last year so I cant say enough how mutch I appreciate DNA supporting the crawler scene! THe case needed a little shaping but once I got it on It was easy to set up. I ran the aluminun internals for about 4 months and after some serious abuse I bent the output, but like I said it took some serous abuse on my part. I just purchase the steel internals and she's like new again and better than ever. Yes it weighs a little bit more and I think it works better with a strong servo but all that can be delt with and the benifits of the strength and reliability outway all the other minor stuff. These are the only digs I have used so I cant comment on the others. I dont really se my DNA giving up the ghost any time soon it does every thing I need.

I also want to add that Before I puchased the dig from Germane he actually took the time to explain the dig and how it works for about a half an hour over the phone which in this day and age is rare to actually speak to person that created the product your purchasing. Also the fact that I had the part that was machined wrong replaced and sent to my house in less than a week without me even contacting him to do so speeks volumes about his product and business. I purchased it at the discount rate and wouldnt hesitate to buy another at full price.

 

[monkeyracer]

Ok, thanks to gunnar, I've made a few changes to the first post.

I'd also ask the contributors of this thread to clean up some of their posts containing info on the controversy about S3R. If you have info on the dig itself (pros/cons) that is fine to leave in the thread. I want to compile as much good information about the available digs.

Now, if we don't get some of this cleaned up, maybe the mods can step in and do it, but it would be nice if we can do it so they don't have to.

Knowing about a companies practices are important in deciding which product to buy, and HR and S3R are on the list as questionable companies. That won't stop someone like crawlinincircles from patronizing them. Having the info here about the actual products should hopefully lead those to buy a good dig from a good company that will support it's product.

Thanks for the input so far, I'd like to see a little more input on the less common digs, like the CKRC or RC4WD or even the 3Racing digs.

 

[beni]

"Thanks for the input so far, I'd like to see a little more input on the less common digs, like the CKRC or RC4WD or even the 3Racing digs"


I have the CKRC FT dig and ran it for awhile, and like stated before, you need to buy better out dives for the tranny the stock ones won't hold up. It worked good once set up but I wore it out in about a month (not good) so it is insalled in a baggie 8) where it belongs.

I bought a DNA about 6 months ago and it has been great I had it apart a couple of weeks ago and the internal parts still looked like new, if they ever wear out I will upgrade them to the new steel one's.

I do like the looks of the Eritex and from what I have been told it is excellent. and I really like all the VP products that I have and expect their dig to be a quality dig also.

 

[gordieb]

I have the Eritex and it's very nice. I also only have a 2 pos 3rd channel so I get lock and 4WD only. It's very reliable but I would recommend making a dirt shield for it.

To me the only flaw in the design is the opening in the top with the greased insides = dirt and gravel magnet. I have also found with mine, although I might need to adjust it some, but it seems to like a servo that is a tad stronger than some stock ones.

I first ran mine with a hitec that came with a radio in the 40oz range and under power it would sometimes take a bit to engage. The drive hex would sometimes make a few extra rotations before the collar could slip into place.
Replaced it with a 100ozer or so and it locks up like a champ. Beautiful fit and finish as well.

Best dig I've owned, but I only have one so far

Helping to get this thread back on track

Gordie

I r gud speeler

 

[BEELZEBOB]

i can say one thing about the DNA Dig, its works flawlessly, after I put it togeather.

the fact that i put it togeather, and its worked perfectly and smooth ever since, says a lot. lol.


i did have 1 issue, due to the fact i didnt listen to instructions and locktitre the internal set screw on the 4wd spool connected to the output shaft.

a lil locktite and im good to go. and i suck at this sorta thing.

 

[monkeyracer]

edit:referenced a deleted post

I appreciate any feedback crawlincircles posted about how the S3R unit works and his experiences with the unit itself. I actually was about ready to buy one about 3 months ago not knowing about their shenanigans. I'm glad I tried to do this research first about the different digs because had I bought one, then found out what they were doing, I'd probably have bought a different dig. So, having a thread like this one could potentially save some people a little money.

One point I have to make is that if someone buys one of the "screwdriver" digs (HR, CKRC, etc) to save a little money, might not really be saving any money in the long run. Those digs usually require a stronger servo to operate, and maybe a servo mount and a new stronger outdrive, etc. When they wear out (like some people have reported) you would have to replace the whole thing.

So, it does speak to the design of the more expensive digs that include servo mounts or stronger materials that last longer, they may end up being less expensive.

I remember growing up in k-mart kickers, the cheap shoes K-Mart and Wal-Mart used to sell because they were cheap, they were like $20 a pair and lasted about 3 months maybe. Once I got a job, I went out and bought a pair of adidas shoes for $60, but they last a whole year. We actually ended up spending more on the cheap shoes each year because they would wear out quicker.

Is this the case with the cheaper digs? What about the lesser known factors, like if the servo needs to shift twice or you need to reverse bump to disengage, this causes wear on other components. These are all important things to consider when looking to buy a dig.

 

[jason]

S3R has a excellent product and should not be over looked because some people hold grudges.

It has nothing to do with holding grudges. The main reason S3R was banned from this site is because they misrepresented themselves by sending PMs to every single person who had preordered someone elses product, representing that they were that makers of said product.

Those are bullshit business practices.

Let S3R and DNA work out their legal issues by themselves. It is not my problem to worry about that, that is for lawyers to work out! Those kind of things should NOT be decided on RCC.

You are correct.

 

[kmnss]

I shop at Kroger, not WalMart.

Back to the digs... I've been looking at the designs, and all the feedback from numerous people who have used, broken, commented, broken, customer serviced, broken, mounted servo's, broken, etc...

What dig does'nt break? What dig doesn't require setup?

Shit breaks, people get ripped off, machine shops don't debur EVERY little piece, and it's all human nature.

Take the time to set something up, and take even more time to make sure it works. It does not matter WHO makes it, but who backs it up. They ALL work "as advertised" in the fact that "when setup properly" she works.

My DNA works pretty well. I'm buying an Eritex as soon as they are back in stock. Two different styles, for two different crawlers. One's comp, one's for my 6year old son. I can bet money that he wouldn't notice the difference.

 

[playzwtrux]

Edited due to possible misunderstood info. 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

And undermiming a manufacturer or vendor for a profit, is just wrong.