Initial machine purchase

[BlueMonster]

I am very close to buying a mill and a lathe, a few weeks away.

I have almost decided on the Taig CNC mill, unless someone has a reason that I should know about that would change my mind.

http://www.taigtools.com/cmill.html

Now, with this mill, or anyother for that matter, what tooling should I get with it? What are the must-haves when making the initial purchase? I want to be sure I have all I need right off the bat. I can learn as I go, but finding out I am missing a tool could be frustrating.

As for the lathe, I have heard that the Harbor Freight is a good one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684

I see a list of accessories on this page, which ones are most important? I would imagine a 4-jaw chuck and steel tool bits, anything else?

On CNC. I decided to go with the full CNC mill instead of the CNC-ready version. I figure I would go CNC eventually anyway, so may as well do it right away. This introduces a new problem, I have no clue whatsoever about CNC software! Is it something I can figure out on my own, or is it complicated?

With enough good info, maybe this would become a good sticky thread for new purchasers.

 

[BENDER]

Nice!!

I don't know anything about that mill myself, but I'll start with the tooling question.

Suggestions for mill tooling:
1. Edge finder
2. Vice, handle and hardware to tie vice/set-ups to table
3. Full set of collets
4. Drill chuck
5. Metalworking drill index
6. Assorted endmills, I see they offer a set for a decent price but they are small
7. Coolant, for milling and drilling and cutting oil, for tapping
8. Calipers

Suggestions for lathe tooling:
1. Four jaw chuck, as you stated
2. Turning tools (bits)
3. Drill chuck for tailstock

Files and sandpaper for deburring. :roll: :lol:
Last but not least........Saftey Glasses!!

 

[BlueMonster]

I have a good set of digital calipers, safety glasses and that's it!

I thought of another question. Can you operate a CNC mill manually?

 

[BENDER]

I have a good set of digital calipers, safety glasses and that's it!

I thought of another question. Can you operate a CNC mill manually?

Most can be operated manually, I'm not sure about that particular mill though.

 

[BultacoJim]

Originally Posted by BlueMonster
I thought of another question. Can you operate a CNC mill manually?

Most CNC equipped machines (at least the ones worth buying) are using Ballscrews for their leads. This makes for almost zero backlash, and is a must for any CNC operations. The extra friction generated though, makes it a real PITA to use manually, plus you sometimes have to turn the servomotor along with the leadscrew.

The picture doesn’t depict any handwheels, so maybe it is an option? . Most CNC software packages will enable you to “jog” or traverse to any point manually. But hey, why invest in CNC if you want to twirl the handwheels?

I believe ACE has a Taig CNC mill and might be able to answer your questions if he sees this post. Maybe he can give us a show & tell.

By the way, I like the choices you made. Both machines have a lot of users and support forums on the internet. I’ve been looking at the Taig CNC mill myself

 

[BlueMonster]

That's kind of what I have discovered as well, it has swayed my decision due to support.

 

[Ace]

BlueMonster,

I have a Taig CNC mill like pictured above.

I love it but you have to realize it isn't a $25,000 ball screw machine either.

Screws are standard lead screws, but they are about 1/2" dia (very beefy for machine this size) Sherlines are 1/4" in comparison.

Mine has about .002 to .004 backlash. It is adjustable but I havn't tried to tighten it up yet. My well used sherline has about .008 max. Again adjustable but for a manual mill it really isn't an issue.

Taig -vs- "real mill"

Much slower... I ususally plunge feed about 2 in/min and feed about 6 in/min in aluminum, steel about 1/2 those amounts. Plus you have to use small endmills.

But you can't carry a bridgeport down to the basement!

Manual handwheels:

Taig sells some that bolt on the end of the steppers (mine has sherline wheels cause I had some) Manual milling is very doable but the chop-chop drag the steppers add is very annoying/fatiguing. It is doable but for long sessions you'd probably want to pull the steppers and do handwheels direct, or I've cleaned up blocks using the computer keyboard (arrows for x,y and pg up/down for z)

Software:

Controller software:

This ones easy, no real choice, get Mach2mill from www.artofcnc.com (I think the link is right)

You can download a demo good for 1000 lines of g code. Which will do 99% of what you'd need. I wound up buying the program, I think it was $150

G code:

This could be your biggest challenge.

The controller takes G code and turns the stepper motors. The problem is making G-code...

Most G-code programs allow you to draw your shape, then you define your path, endmill size, depth of cuts, feed rates etc and spit out the G-code. Problem is most customers for these programs are machine shops where the several thousand dollar price isn't a big deal.

You can write g-code manually. Kind of a pain but it really does teach you the code. Really helpful to know the code when manually debugging or doing a simple drill cycle...

Poke around Sherlines excellent website:
http://www.sherline.com/CNCinstructions.htm
They have the best beginner cnc instructions I've seen.

In short, if you're making smaller stuff, tight but not rediculously tight toleranced parts you'll be VERY happy with the Taig.

Might I suggest you talk to Tim Goldstein to purchase the mill? I got mine from him here in Denver. (He ships too) He has the best prices, great advice and has them in stock (I hear they can be a little hard to get)

Give him a call, he was really helpful.

http://www.a2zmetalsmithsupply.com/A2ZProductsFrame.htm



I wouldn't bother with Taig's vice (I think it comes with the mill) Get a toolmakers vice. Ask me when the time comes and I'll shoot a link. The movable jaw moves down when it clamps the work and the work won't lift like a drill press vice does.

My taig has a Sherline motor/headstock on it. The taig motor is pretty weak. It is usable but something to consider in the future.

I use Sherline steppers and a "Denvercnc" controller box. There are others. Again, call Tim. I got everything but the computer from Tim.

Geeze, this must be a record post!

Ace

 

[BultacoJim]

Nice info Ace. :lol:

And now the controller software questions. :shock:

Like Ace said, Mach2mill is a good one for home machinists.
I’ve been playing around with TurboCNC. It also has a Yahoo forum like Mach2mill.
You can also download it free.

http://www.dakeng.com/turbo.html

Join both forums and read what people have to say about the software. I like TurboCNC because you can purchase the source code. I know how to program in Pascal, so I tend to lean towards having the ability of having complete control of the software. Pascal compilers are still available in shareware versions and purchased items.

The research on this subject is real easy if you just Google it. A lot of people are going to CNC. You have to be a “techie” though if you want to do everything yourself.

 

[JasonInAugusta]

I saw the 4 jaw lathe chuck on the Taig site, Sherline offers a 4 jaw self-centering chuck that you might be interested in...would make for faster set-up. You might get a hair of runout with the self-centering 4 jaw. An independent 4 jaw would allow for perfect alignment but it'd take a while.

Just depends on much patience you have.

http://sherline.com/4jawspg.htm

 

[BENDER]

Wow, great info guys!!

I was going to open the programming can of worms, but I wasn't sure about "home machinist software". As Ace stated, most machine shops use expensive software to program CNC mills and lathes. Mastercam is a really common software, it'll only cost you about $12,000!! :shock: G-code can be entered manually, but it does take some time to learn and is great to know for trouble shooting.

 

[Ace]

I've heard good things about turbocnc too.

Turbocnc is nice cause it'll run on ANY computer I think it's dos based?

Mach2 requires XP. So that takes a decent computer.

 

[Magic]

I am amazed no one talked about Mastercam, my old highschool used it and it works great, its like CAD with tools paths programed in. very easy to use and to learn.

 

[BENDER]

Mastercam is a really common software.

;-) :mrgreen:

 

[Magic]

;-) :mrgreen:

I always mis something when i speed read, sorry B.

 

[BENDER]

Here's a peak at a freeride mountain bike frame I'm designing. I used Mastercam to generate the 1:1 geometry for this frame. Once I get all the rest of the details ironed out, I'll turn the file into a 3-D solid. Then I'll have a blueprint for every part on this bike, that I can also put a tool path to for CNC machining of parts as needed. I still need to draw up the details on the swingarm for disc brake mount, derailleur hanger, and rear thru axle clamp.

 

[BlueMonster]

Okay, I am getting a Taig 2019CRHC, which is decribed like this

"2019 converted to CNC ready with 1/4hp Continuous Duty spindle motor (speeds 1000 to 10000rpm), adjustable bronze leadscrew nuts in X & Y and Nema 23 motor mounts. Does not include stepper motors or control system. (Vise and 2 collets (3/16,1/4) $25.00 more)"

The 2019CRHC is a 2019CR (described above) with handcranks installed.

It says it can come with the vice and 2 collets, but what else will I need? If you guys could look here...

http://www.taigtools.com/accessories.html

...and tell me if anything on this list might be needed with a new mill?

Thanks!

 

[Ace]

Grab their 1/4" edge finder.

The slitting saw and arbor would be good to have too.


I buy a lot of stuff from www.use-enco.com

Check out the Hotdeals/outlet and download them. Ask for their catalouge

Endmills:

You'll want 1/8" 1/4 and 3/8 to start. I like the Atrax carbide mills in use-enco HotDeals for value/performance. Get a few, you'll be braking them learning on a cnc!

Get the single ended (not double ended) for your collets, get 2 flutes for aluminum 4 flutes for steel, make sure they are "Center cutting" or they will only cut sideways, not straight in like a drill

Sooner or later your gonna want a vice like:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=505-2144&PMPXNO=950938

these vices clamp the part down when they grip it, eliminating the part lifting like in the taig vice and other drill press vices. The Taig vice and ones like it are almost useless in my opinion.

Taps? Get Spiral Point taps. (period) Accept no others. HSS (high speed steel) NEVER NEVER NEVER buy "carbon steel" Get the spiral points, USA if you can afford them. Nothing like busting a POS tap off in a part you just spend all Saturday making. Trust me on this!

Here's a good usa set:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=309-1000&PMPXNO=950263&PARTPG=INLMK32

Import:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=309-1003&PMPXNO=949033&PARTPG=INLMK32

You'll need an indicator,

You use indicators to square up your vice, to square work clamped to the table, to center over round parts. Extremely accurate edge finding etc.

Not saying you need it now but heres a cheap one I have that works really well considering a top name one would go for $150+

type DG891-7507 in the enco part finder.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

not to hijack, but that frame looks a little beefier than freeride bender. more like 45 lb downhiller. 8" travel?

 

[BlueMonster]

Ace, thanks a lot! That is just what I am looking for!

 

[Ace]

I just remembered:

Center drills, used to start a drill on location. Otherwise the drill point will deflect a little and the hole won't start where you wanted (thou or three off). Get a few of the small sizes (1/4" shaft or so)

Drill set:

You'll want a set of drills. I've got the cheapest "made in america" set I could find. Screw machine drills are better than "jobber lenght" quality wise (as a rule) Screw machine drills are shorter which is just the ticket for a mini mill with limited Z travel. I also have a cheapy set from harbor freight which work suprisingly well. My good set has the decimal size on the metal case which is very nice, my cheapy HF set has "F" for the letter drills and fraction for the fraction drills. Kindof annoying to have to look at a drill chart when your looking for the "Closest to .257"

You can get a decent set for under $100 if you look around. Again, don't absolutely need a huge set right away, but you will be getting one eventually.

Vice parallels:

I only have a pair. Depends on the vice you get but you'll want a parallel thats about 1/8" shorter than your vice. That way most of the part sticks above the vice so you can work on it. Could be made I suppose.

Welcome to the world of machining!