Could someone explain the motor T thing?

RyanRC · Apr 30, 2015

Hello all

Am pretty new to the crawler world, but just picked up a MaxStone 8 to get started, but I think I might like to replace the stock motors.

From the info in the documentation that came with it, for the only info it had that I think matters is that states it's a RC540. Which I gather is a frame or some other physical motor size thing. IE: most 540 motors should bolt into that same mount?

But then on the internet when searching for just the motor, I saw info in one place that also said it was a 70T or turn I gather.

So first off, was kinda hoping someone could explain (aside from the obvious of that its a number of turns), what the "turn" point for these motors means or matters?

An then two, if anyone has any recommendations for a replacement, would be glad to hear it.

Btw just to mention on that turn thing, I was looking at the Holmes brands, an saw that some of their recommendations for crawlers are to use motors with what I think are 13T windings? Where as the factory one is a 70T?

Guess its stuff like this that has me confused?

Thanks for any help

sdmf · Apr 30, 2015

I wouldn't spend more than 10$ on motors for a maxstone. Run it till it breaks then if you still like Rc, get something like an scx or wraith.

The Violator · Apr 30, 2015

The 13t Holmes wind is slightly different in the way they work compared to say a 13t pan car motor. It is in the way it is wound. The turns equals rpm per volt input. So a 70t motor at 12 volts will spin slower than a 45t motor of the same design. The Maxstone crawlers are not of the highest quality, and if it is a rtr car the electronics might not handle the higher amperage of a lower turn motor. I am not sure what you bought but I would look at a 45t-55t motor. If you want cheap I would grab an integy lathe motor.

I personally run Brood Racing motors and have had nothing but spectacular results. I run Brood machine wound motors in my water dog trucks without issue. The hand wounds in everything else.

crawlerwon · Apr 30, 2015

Basically, higher turn ratings = slower motor speed but higher torque. Lower turn ratings = faster speeds with less torque. This only works if you are comparing the same type of motors. A 13t holmes crawlmaster would be different than a 13t traxxas titan.

RyanRC · May 1, 2015

Hey guys an an thanks for all the replies an info.

The Violator said:
The Maxstone crawlers are not of the highest quality, and if it is a rtr car the electronics might not handle the higher amperage of a lower turn motor. I am not sure what you bought but I would look at a 45t-55t motor. If you want cheap I would grab an integy lathe motor.

Basically left most of this out as didn't want to make it too long. An no offense taken but just to provide the info....

For me I have been involved with R/C Helicopters for quite some time an know a lot about them an have some very good quality brands with even for those, some really high end upgraded parts above their originals.

But I have a brother who has Downs Syndrome an was looking for something just for him for fun.

Basically chose a crawler as while he can do a lot, he does have some troubles understanding things of proportional control an I can tell you from years back when I had gotten him Walmart models, he just tends to go WOT with anything R/C an lets things rip.

So thought with the crawler he would have more fun as this way it just doesn't take off an crash into something an get wreaked, or have to go get picked up as it got stuck in or on something or upside down.

Then too I plan to use stick controls with a buddy box system as one, I can take over in case he looked like he would get into trouble, plus too I have all the equipment needed.

All in all though, I doubt this truck will ever see the kind of crawling most of you guys do, an certainly not of any competition levels. Mostly I wanted something that kinda looked cool by his eyes, would be easy enough for him to be able to run it, an have enough power to get through some tall grass or sticks or a few other things here or there, an not get stuck.

Will say from my time in my side of the hobby, I certainly know where the HobbyParts people are in the R/C World, but I did look around a bit an for all the things considered of the above, an too largely the budget I had to work with, this truck seemed as good as any in that range to get us started. For sure I expected I would put more into it, but when do you ever never do that. But figured this way, I could just spend the more I need or wanted where I wanted, where as with something way more, I already ate up a lot of money I had just for the initial purchase. Six of one, half of the other I know, but also too, will learn more probably this way too

Anyway, again thanks for all the info, while it will take time, am learning more as I go along an its always great to have places like this an the people who know, to get help from.

gfmucci · May 2, 2015

Ryan, I agree 100% with your approach in this hobby. I recently started with a Redcat Lightning Pro which most describe as an entry level rtr. I learned a lot by upgrading a few front end parts even before anything broke

At least I have a few spare parts.

Now I'm building a Vaterra Twin Hammers kit. I'm installing a Hobbywing EZ Run brushless system - 4 pole 3400KV. I guess there is no "turn " equivalent since turns are only relevant to brushed motors. My question is why?

crawlerwon · May 2, 2015

RyanRC said:
 Hey guys an an thanks for all the replies an info.

Basically left most of this out as didn't want to make it too long. An no offense taken but just to provide the info....

For me I have been involved with R/C Helicopters for quite some time an know a lot about them an have some very good quality brands with even for those, some really high end upgraded parts above their originals.

But I have a brother who has Downs Syndrome an was looking for something just for him for fun.

Basically chose a crawler as while he can do a lot, he does have some troubles understanding things of proportional control an I can tell you from years back when I had gotten him Walmart models, he just tends to go WOT with anything R/C an lets things rip.

So thought with the crawler he would have more fun as this way it just doesn't take off an crash into something an get wreaked, or have to go get picked up as it got stuck in or on something or upside down.

Then too I plan to use stick controls with a buddy box system as one, I can take over in case he looked like he would get into trouble, plus too I have all the equipment needed.

All in all though, I doubt this truck will ever see the kind of crawling most of you guys do, an certainly not of any competition levels. Mostly I wanted something that kinda looked cool by his eyes, would be easy enough for him to be able to run it, an have enough power to get through some tall grass or sticks or a few other things here or there, an not get stuck.

Will say from my time in my side of the hobby, I certainly know where the HobbyParts people are in the R/C World, but I did look around a bit an for all the things considered of the above, an too largely the budget I had to work with, this truck seemed as good as any in that range to get us started. For sure I expected I would put more into it, but when do you ever never do that. But figured this way, I could just spend the more I need or wanted where I wanted, where as with something way more, I already ate up a lot of money I had just for the initial purchase. Six of one, half of the other I know, but also too, will learn more probably this way too

Anyway, again thanks for all the info, while it will take time, am learning more as I go along an its always great to have places like this an the people who know, to get help from.

given the situation, i would not fix it unless there is a problem. that way instead spending on upgrades you can save your $$$ for what brakes.

gfmucci · May 2, 2015

crawlerwon said:
brushless motors are rated in KV, not turns. a brushless motor does not have the parts required to rate it in turns or "T".

I understand that. What I don't understand is why? What parts doesn't it have? Brushless motors don't have any wires that loop around the core? What replaces that set up in a brushless motor?

crawlerwon · May 2, 2015

im no motor guru but i hope this helps.

gfmucci said:
I understand that. What I don't understand is why? What parts doesn't it have?

its the wire inside a brushed motor that gives it a "T", turn, or wind(s) rating. it is the number of times the wire is wrapped around a certain part of the core.

gfmucci said:
Brushless motors don't have any wires that loop around the core? What replaces that set up in a brushless motor?

The rotor part of a brushless motor is often a permanent magnet synchronous motor and additional sensors and electronics control the inverter output amplitude and waveform.
basically a bunch of electronics and a magnet.

RyanRC · May 3, 2015

Don't know if this answers all of the questions posted here, but found a pretty good vid from Holmes that goes over a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjbc3PMKyGk

EeePee · May 3, 2015

Brushless motors are also rated in turns.

gfmucci · May 3, 2015

crawlerwon said:
im no motor guru but i hope this helps.

its the wire inside a brushed motor that gives it a "T", turn, or wind(s) rating. it is the number of times the wire is wrapped around a certain part of the core.

The rotor part of a brushless motor is often a permanent magnet synchronous motor and additional sensors and electronics control the inverter output amplitude and waveform.
basically a bunch of electronics and a magnet.

Does this mean that a brushless motor does not have any wire wrapped around the core - or even no wire inside the motor at all?

gfmucci · May 3, 2015

EeePee said:
Brushless motors are also rated in turns.

Is a "turn" rating for a brushless motor just a rough equivalent to compare performance to a brushed motor even though it doesn't have any actual physical turns (or wire wraps)?

EeePee · May 3, 2015

Sure.

3 slot arm is different than a 5 slot arm. An example would be the 10 turn 5 slot I have. Tell someone I have a 10 turn in a crawler and they'll look at ya funny if they don't know the difference.

EddieO · May 3, 2015

gfmucci said:
Does this mean that a brushless motor does not have any wire wrapped around the core - or even no wire inside the motor at all?

Not sure where this brushless motors don't have turns stuff comes from...the planes ones are often just KV rated, but most of the car ones are rated by turns first with a KV rating as well in most cases.........with some exceptions to this rule.

A brushless inrunner motor is basically the opposite of a brushed. Brushed has magnets in the can, armature with windings.....brushless has a rotor with magnets(same as the armature basically) with a stator wound as electromagnets (takes the place of the can/magnet setup).

There is no perfect conversion chart from one to the other, but KV can help get you in the ballpark.

Later EddieO

caleb.cole · May 3, 2015

Note: the following information only applies for brushed motors. First off, the "T" stands for turns. This is how many times the wire was turned around the rotor. All you need to know is that more turns gives you more torque and less speed, and less turns gives you more speed and less torque. A good crawling motor is usually between 30 and 50 turns.

crawlerwon · May 3, 2015

EeePee said:
Sure.

3 slot arm is different than a 5 slot arm. An example would be the 10 turn 5 slot I have. Tell someone I have a 10 turn in a crawler and they'll look at ya funny if they don't know the difference.

Good to know. Ive only had experience with helis,planes,boats, my xo1,& emaxx.
I never seen brushless on a crawler before.

Olle P · May 3, 2015

crawlerwon said:
given the situation, i would not fix it unless there is a problem.

I support this suggestion! "thumbsup"
I started with crawlers partially for a similar reason. My son also have problems reacting quickly, so a slow car was an obvious choice.
(Other consideration was the ability to go driving near home.)

crawlerwon said:
brushless motors are rated in KV, not turns. a brushless motor does not have the parts required to rate it in turns or "T".

This is wrong. Brushless motors are rated in Kv in addition to their T-rating.
Some leave the T-rating out when presenting public data, but it's there.

gfmucci said:
Is a "turn" rating for a brushless motor just a rough equivalent to compare performance to a brushed motor even though it doesn't have any actual physical turns (or wire wraps)?

Brushless motors do have physical windings. The main difference is that in a brushless motor the windings are located in the static part of the motor and the magnets are rotating.
If you want a (very) rough equivalent I've found that a two-pole inrunner of 540 size with X winds is comparable to a typical brushed 540 motor with 2X winds.

If you want to know more about how different number of winds influence the motor you can read about it in depth here

RyanRC · May 4, 2015

OK, here's one of those questions makes you worry people think you don't know anything, but I've never been one to worry about that.

But is there a dif between a turn number an a winding number?

For me I've always considered a winding to be one path or run you might say of wire going from one end to the other, but if you're counting turns, one could say that for each of those, there is two turns IE: one at each end.

So is this how those numbers work, or is a turn an a winding just thought of as the same thing?

Olle P · May 4, 2015

It's the same thing: The number of "laps" the wiring do per spool inside the motor.

Could someone explain the motor T thing?

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