Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith - Gearing Added!

[Cainlord]

been looking at bit more at the Wraith I got sitting here from a trade and it looks like the previous owner did add a 32P spur gear to it, 56T nylon from what I can tell.

what I am wondering is if the steel 48P 80T slipper setup from robinson racing (I have that here to it looks like) is a better option than the 32P nylon spur gear.

I am looking to drop a 4 pole motor on it that would work with a 2S lipo (I don't know what kv is good for that, but right now looking at either HW 4000Kv or a HW 4700kv, the 3656 regular), oriented more for "speed" versus pure crawling. Mainly looking to reuse some 2S lipos from my racing vehicles like a shorty lipo or a monster 8000mah one.

I may also do that 17mm hex conversion to reuse some 2.8 rims I have with mudding / paddle style tires. Basically making this info a "fun" vehicle.

I would probably prefer the 48P option just so I can reuse pinions I already have, but I am not attached to it.

Thanks for any help beforehand.

 

[Harley]

been looking at bit more at the Wraith I got sitting here from a trade and it looks like the previous owner did add a 32P spur gear to it, 56T nylon from what I can tell.

what I am wondering is if the steel 48P 80T slipper setup from robinson racing (I have that here to it looks like) is a better option than the 32P nylon spur gear.

I am looking to drop a 4 pole motor on it that would work with a 2S lipo (I don't know what kv is good for that, but right now looking at either HW 4000Kv or a HW 4700kv, the 3656 regular), oriented more for "speed" versus pure crawling. Mainly looking to reuse some 2S lipos from my racing vehicles like a shorty lipo or a monster 8000mah one.

I may also do that 17mm hex conversion to reuse some 2.8 rims I have with mudding / paddle style tires. Basically making this info a "fun" vehicle.

I would probably prefer the 48P option just so I can reuse pinions I already have, but I am not attached to it.

Thanks for any help beforehand.

The 48p pinions unless specifically bought as hardened will disintegrate on the steel spur gear with brushless. So either stay with the the 32p or buy new pinions.

Unless those systems are sensored they likely won't be good choices for any crawling at all. If they are, than the 4000 is as fast as I would suggest.

 

[USP45]

Just a quick question for you guys, I have just purchased an Axial RR10 Bomber and was just curious as to whether all of the information that I have found here will translate into the Bomber. Basically does anyone know if the ratios are the same etc? I do not want to go off topic as this is a discussion for the Wraith, but if most everything is the same then I can just use the information that is already available rather than starting from scratch. I will use either a RX8 or a MMP, just do not know what motor yet although I am leaning towards either a Tekin 13.5 or Pro4 3300. I used a Pro4 4600 in my Tekno 410 SCT along with a RX8 and it was a pretty robust combination, I just do not know if that would be overkill in the Bomber. And I do not want to end up tearing stuff up every time I drive it..... Thanks

 

[Gavinda]

Daft question I know, but can I use the traxxas pinions with my wraith. I have searched for suitable pinions but am really struggling to find any wraith ones in stock in the uk. If not please can someone point me to a decent uk stockist of 15-16t 48 p pinions. Thanks

 

[godofcable]

Daft question I know, but can I use the traxxas pinions with my wraith. I have searched for suitable pinions but am really struggling to find any wraith ones in stock in the uk. If not please can someone point me to a decent uk stockist of 15-16t 48 p pinions. Thanks

yes you can use any pinion so long as the pitch and the shaft size are the same

 

[Gavinda]

Cheers fella

 

[firstpasstommy]

Excellent info! This will definitely help everybody and the forum!

 

[Thickone]

I just recently started my MUD racing wraith machine. I am looking for a set up speed/power/water proof. And gears. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dawagner]

Has anyone tried the larger 550 Crawlmasters 12T in the Wraith? How do they compare the 540 Crawlmaster 13 or 16 T?

 

[linklemming]

Just wanted to share my experience upgrading to a CrawlMaster 13T expert in my quest for low speed crawling goodness.

I initially didnt realize ths motor existed, thought all the crawlmasters were $80+ pros. So I initially used a torquemaster expert 35T

My emphasis for the wraith is crawling, speed is nice but if I really want that my traxxas stampede 4x4 brushless more than fits the bill. That being said, I want it to be faster than I can walk.

My previous setup was a FlySky GTC3C radio using 30% throttle expo, Holmes BRXL ESC(stock settings), Torquemaster Expert 35T with 56/10 gearing and running on 3s. I felt this was a good compromise of low speed crawling and fast enough to outpace me in a fast walk, its top speed was about 6.5mph.

On a whim, I found a crawlmaster 13T expert on ebay and decided to just try it thinking the 16T or even 20t would actually be more of what I wanted.

Installed the crawlmaster 13t today using a 56/9 and am totally blown away by how well the lowspeed is compared to the torquemaster 35t on 56/10. Also gained 2mph top speed.

My quest for good low speed resolution was:
1.) Torquemaster 35t using 56/10 on stock AE-5 esc - much better than stock but didnt feel the AE-5 was what I wanted (resolution wise)
2.) Upgraded to GT3C radio to get a cheap system which had throttle expo - great decision even unhacked. Throttle seemed better even without expo. With expo it was as good as I thought it would get, but decided to try step 3.
3.) Holmes BRXL ESC - yes, crawling was better but frankly the Castle sidewinder 3 borrowed from my stampede seemed 80% as good. That being said, its a great ESC with a good BEC and competitive with a sidewinder 3 with external BEC cost wise. Set Drag Brake to 100% passive (no holmes hold)
4.) Crawlmaster 13t - WOW, it really is that good. If I had done this first, steps 1-3 probably would have been unnecesary.

Only negative I can see at this point is that the drag brake doesnt seem as good as the torquemaster (expected this). Will play with holmes hold tomorrow.

My next upgrade was going to be an RC4WD 2 speed trans, dont see the need for it now

 

[Farabomb]

The crawl master that everyone is referring to is the expert or the pro? Since my stock esc released it's blue smoke I'm looking for a replacement.

 

[northern hooligan]

The crawl master that everyone is referring to is the expert or the pro? Since my stock esc released it's blue smoke I'm looking for a replacement.

Farabomb,

I pre ordered the CM Expert with 6 deg timing / CCW (machine wound/$49) rather than the CM Pro (hand wound/$84.99) Cost was the choice: Hope the link works to show comparison:
Holmes Hobbies LLC- Your Source for Power!

As well, my AE-5 smoked after a few battery packs, My first choice for replacement was HH's BXRL but no stock as of last week and my LHS do not have a great selection. I went with my second choice, Castle Creations SV3 as I only run brushed and nothing higher than 3S. Took the wraith out yesterday "thumbsup". In case you not aware, you can program both the SV3/BXRL with:
Castle link to program ESC: Castle Creations | Castle Link USB Programming Kit
Download: Castle Creations | Downloads
** Make sure once you do the initial set up with the SV3, you hook up the program kit and change motor setting to "brushed" or "brushless" and then make all other changes as required.

 

[Farabomb]

Thanks for the response. I've tracked down the problem as to why the smoke escaped. Seems the RC4WD sealed can 35T lunched it's brushes and possibly dead shorted taking out the ESC. I'm none too pleased but it's more my fault for not checking the motor. I was just out to test the HD gears I installed (stock in front, UD in back). I wasn't out for more than 10 minutes before the smoke appeared. It's not the first motor I've gone through so I'm not quick to blame the ESC for being crappy.

I almost pulled the trigger on the BLE today but decided to wait and do a little research. Turns out for the better as I need a combo now. I'm well aware of the LHS lack of selection between last thurs and fri I was at 4 different LHS and none of them had anything near what I was looking for. I'm about to fire off a email to Holmes to make sure I get what I need and hopefully I will have a new setup shortly.

My main questions are what rotation I need (all metal, non mirrored trans), what timing is best and some info on the BLE. I can't seem to find a lot of info on the BLE but seeing as I was looking for a brushless setup to swap out the BLE looks to be a better option over the BR-XL. They also don't seem to have any BR-XL's in stock so that may force my hand. I don't desperately need the combo as 1:1 racing season is starting April 15th so I will be busy playing crewchief for our Spec 86 cup BRZ. I wouldn't mind getting the wraith back up and running though. Palmer motorsports park has tons of interesting terrain and there is some downtime between sessions.

 

[HahnsB2]

Thanks for the response. I've tracked down the problem as to why the smoke escaped. Seems the RC4WD sealed can 35T lunched it's brushes and possibly dead shorted taking out the ESC. I'm none too pleased but it's more my fault for not checking the motor. I was just out to test the HD gears I installed (stock in front, UD in back). I wasn't out for more than 10 minutes before the smoke appeared. It's not the first motor I've gone through so I'm not quick to blame the ESC for being crappy.

I almost pulled the trigger on the BLE today but decided to wait and do a little research. Turns out for the better as I need a combo now. I'm well aware of the LHS lack of selection between last thurs and fri I was at 4 different LHS and none of them had anything near what I was looking for. I'm about to fire off a email to Holmes to make sure I get what I need and hopefully I will have a new setup shortly.

My main questions are what rotation I need (all metal, non mirrored trans), what timing is best and some info on the BLE. I can't seem to find a lot of info on the BLE but seeing as I was looking for a brushless setup to swap out the BLE looks to be a better option over the BR-XL. They also don't seem to have any BR-XL's in stock so that may force my hand. I don't desperately need the combo as 1:1 racing season is starting April 15th so I will be busy playing crewchief for our Spec 86 cup BRZ. I wouldn't mind getting the wraith back up and running though. Palmer motorsports park has tons of interesting terrain and there is some downtime between sessions.

BLE is a great choice if you need a brushless ESC. Normal rotation has always been fine for me with a normal Wraith setup. Can also be easily changed with the Castle link or by swapping the ring gear in the diffs to the opposite side.

If you're buying a combo be sure to use the combo feature on the Holmes website to save 10%.

 

[Arctic Cat ZRT]

I am looking at a sensored brushless setup, but I don't want to break the bank. I have found this hobbywing combo, but I am not sure it is appropriate or not for my wraith. I am looking to run on a 2s and 3s. I am looking for more low end power and even more speed than my stock brushed system/gearing on my wraith (currently a axial 27t motor with stock esc).

I understand that upgrading to brushless will require gearing changing for temps/drivability.

Quicrun 10 ESC Sensored
HOBBYWING North America — QUICRUN 10 Sensored ESC

Quicrun 3650 13.5T (rated at 2500-2700KV depending on website)
HOBBYWING North America — QUICRUN 3650 Sensored brushless motor

After some thinking, I may be better off with the Holmes Hobby waterproofed ESC and Trailmaster 540 3300KV motor. Now just to save up some money...

Thanks

 

[Theutrich]

First post.

My understanding is that the more turns the more torque, vs higher speeds for less turns. And crawlers need primarily torque. So higher turn motors (25-45) are recommended for crawling. However I notice the Crawlmaster 13T and 16T are recommended as decent for crawling. I would naively expect motors with that low of a turn count to be awful for crawling. Can anyone comment on this seeming paradox?

 

[HahnsB2]

First post.

My understanding is that the more turns the more torque, vs higher speeds for less turns. And crawlers need primarily torque. So higher turn motors (25-45) are recommended for crawling. However I notice the Crawlmaster 13T and 16T are recommended as decent for crawling. I would naively expect motors with that low of a turn count to be awful for crawling. Can anyone comment on this seeming paradox?

Crawlmasters use a 5 slot rotor vs a standard 3 slot rotor therefore fewer turns are required.

 

[reacttiondc2]

After doing some reading in this thread i decided to run a holmes crawlmaster 13t..In less than 10 minutes of run time it gave up the ghost...I used the stock spawn esc(ae-5?), 56/10 and a 3s pack...my stock axial 20 turn with 56/12 outlasted it by a long way...Any idea what im doing wrong here?

 

[slapjack]

I have some of the same questions as others above but some specific question also. I am doing a piece by piece 2.2 wraith build with the wraithzilla chasis and vp curries as the foundation. I was originally thinking about using a tekin rx8 and pro4 Motor. I want to do some crawling but also creek running and trail riding so I want some speed. But I want to do a little crawling too but not comp crawling or anything. Please give me some advice on the setups below and which would be best for what. I would want it to be at least as fast as my old summit in high gear.
Rx8 Gen 2 with Pro4
Rx8 with T8 motor (what KV would be good)?
HH BLE with puller pro (would I want the XL 550 size or the 540 size)?
Castle MMP with Roc 412 (would the ROc412 be very slow or would it have decent speed?)
What about the Tekin Rsx. Does anyone run that ESC? I have one but I always thought of those as a race buggy esc. and if so what motor would be good to pair with them?

 

[4xmike]

ok I have been reading and I find myself without the answer I am looking for. My Wraith is stock. My esc quit. I am not running lipos. I plan to upgrade in ghe future, but not right now. I am looking for an esc. I would like to do a motor/esc combo, but I am limted to around 125 for the budget. I found the novak eiger pro esc with the 35t rockstar motor. it includes a bec. is this a good set and can I run my 7.2 nimh batteries until I upgrade to lipos. I recently moved and can not find an rc shop near me that is competent with crawlers. any help is appreciated.