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Chassis Kit Suggestions/Recommendations for possible build
- Thread starter Panther6834
- Start date
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
I'm familiar with Supershafty's products. I've already bought a few things from SS for my first Capra, plus I'm considering one of his trans (with the VP Hurtz V2 dig) for my second Capra. I am curious about something...for the trans, there are "stubby" and "extended"options. What, exactly, are they? My assumption would be that it's referring to the front/rear output, work "stubby" meaning a shorter output shaft, and "extended" meaning a longer output shaft. If that's correct, what would the output shaft lengths (standard, stubby & extended) be? Also (again, if my assumption is correct), can one specify which side the "extended" and/or "stubby" would be on?
Straight-up is preferable, but not a "requirement". That's why I've said (a few times) that, if shock hoops/towers at the 324mm wheelbase is the 'longest' I'll be able to get, then I'd just have to go with longer rear links, and have the shocks at a slight angle. As for the shock towers, themselves, they're not really part of the problem...they're not really "in the way" (although, that depends on which chassis I go with).
What this whole thing has been about is trying to find a quality chassis that offers a 329mm wheelbase as an option...or, if there's no such chassis, then a quality chassis that offers a 324-325mm wheelbase...and a quality low CG transmission, that positions the motor as forward as possible. I thought I might have found the solution in the VP VS4-10 chassis & VFD trans, except that using the VFD requires use of the VS4-10 front axle. Since I plan on using SSD axles, that (as previously mentioned) eliminated the VFD trans from contention. The VS4-10 chassis would work, as would the Trail King's chassis. As I just woke, I haven't yet checked into the suggested Gmade chassis.
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
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svt923
I wanna be Dave
Your understanding is correct though Supershafty does get a little confusing on these options. There are 2 different output lengths available in 2 different diameters despite 3 different names.
The "standard" 5mm output is the same dimensions as a stock Axial output where the driveshaft essentially mounts to the transmission right next to the case. The "stubby" option is the same length but in a 6mm diameter. The 6mm outputs are stronger but require driveshafts with 6mm yokes. SS sells the 6mm yokes for MIP shafts but most shafts are 5mm.
The "extended" output option (available in 5 or 6mm) makes the output shaft as long as the original Wraith trans which is longer to make the driveshafts clear the huge Wraith skid and to accommodate the optional dig. I forget the exact amount of extra length, 15mm maybe?
The extended option serves 2 main purposes: to enable a SCX style 3 gear to be installed in a Wraith or other large skidplate applications and to allow larger spur gears to fit without rubbing the driveshaft. Although an long wheelbase truck could also benefit from an extended rear output as rear driveshaft wouldn't have to be as long. I'm sure SS would assemble it for you with the extended output in either direction if you ask but changing the extended output side is as simple as opening up the case and turning the bottom gear around.
Topher Builds
I wanna be Dave
Have you considered just getting a trx4? The transmission has the motor forward. The chassis rails are very similar to the vs4-10. Has plenty of clearance for portals, and the defender is a 12.8” wb out of the box. It’s a heck of a platform too with a lot of upgrades available.
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
Thank you for the clarification. Don't think the front output would need to be extended, but, considering the 329mm wheelbase I need to achieve, having an extended rear output seems like a smart idea.
I had originally considered it, but some reason I'm not forgetting, I had eliminated it from consideration...just wish I could remember the reason.
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
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Voodoobrew
I wanna be Dave
The trx4 sport puts the motor in a good spot too. Takoffs are cheap on eBay because most people are after the axles.
I put wraith axles under one, but the trans is geared pretty high for the sport.
The metal wraith axles with scx10 2 difs would be better.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I put wraith axles under one, but the trans is geared pretty high for the sport.
The metal wraith axles with scx10 2 difs would be better.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
Well, I think I've made a decision...although, it is possible it could change (especially if anyone gives me any really good reasons to consider something else). Looks like I'll probably go with the VP VS4-10 chassis kit, and SS Complete 6mm OutPut Bomb Proof trans. I had always planned on using SSD portal axles, so whatever chassis & trans I decided to use, they HAD to work with the SSD portal axles.
As nice as the VFD trans is, considering it doesn't "play nice" with anything but VP axles (specifically, the $300 VS4-10 front axle), I can't "play" with it. Mama always said, "Never play with bullies." (I'm NOT calling Vanquish a "bully", only the VFD trans)
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
As nice as the VFD trans is, considering it doesn't "play nice" with anything but VP axles (specifically, the $300 VS4-10 front axle), I can't "play" with it. Mama always said, "Never play with bullies." (I'm NOT calling Vanquish a "bully", only the VFD trans)
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
I don't think anyone mentioned the GCM CMAX chassis. It's almost 20" (approx 500mm) long. More than enough to accommodate even a leaf sprung WB up to about 370mm.
GCM USA Webstore - CMAX - The new standard in scale
GCM USA Webstore - CMAX - The new standard in scale
Voodoobrew
I wanna be Dave
Toyzuki makes a forward motor mount for the vs4-10. Don't know if it works with center dif.
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Voodoobrew
I wanna be Dave
No it won't.
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Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
Even if it didn't work, it was worth trying. Kinda reminds me of my Rusty-Frankie build (converted a Rustler 4x4 VXL into a "true" stadium truck). I attempted to many different things, many of which failed...but, bit-by-bit, is come together, and is almost truly finished (tho, are any of our vehicles ever "truly finished"...lol?).No it won't.
To be honest, I'd almost forgotten about GCM. I purchased one of their GCM LowRange/LRT2 transmissions w/ T-case, or installed in my TF2 (when I get around to building it), which is super smooth. When I received it, I opened the package, and started "playing" work the transmission. It was hard to believe how super-smooth it was.
Honestly, this is a chassis worth considering...plus, out of the box, it supports the 329/330mm wheelbase I'm in need of. My only question, since I'm not familiar (at least in the RC world), is how a coil-over suspension compares to a link suspension (yes, I know they also offer the link 'conversion' kits, one of which is for a 330mm wheelbase...Yahoo!!!). Is it closer to a link, or a leaf-spring, suspension?
Considering the body I plan on using, the coil-over suspension would be more "scale", but I know nothing of its articulation (especially compared to the link & leaf-spring suspensions). Any info you can provide regarding the differences/similarities would really help me, and would be very-much appreciated. And, thanks again for having my memory regarding GCM.
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
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Looking at their website, a coil spring suspension appears to be the same thing as a linked suspension, except the springs are separate from the shock, which is more scale on some vehicles. The radius arm suspension goes one step further, by using a scale radius arm set-up in the front with leaf suspension in the rear, similar to a Ford Bronco, adding to scale realism. And finally, the 4 wheel leaf suspension, which if you have a TF2, then you already know about this one. If you are wanting a custom wheel base length, then the coil sprung or linked suspension is the way to go, and it offers more flex in the suspension as well. Leaf suspension is more for scale action. "thumbsup"
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svt923
I wanna be Dave
The Cmax will easily handle a 330mm wheelbase, the one I have is set up for a 375mm wheelbase and that is without the optional chassis extension.
It is a great platform for scale builds but performance is limited compared to any of the mainstream scale platforms with much more suspension travel. They are low, stable, and quite capable for a realistic build but you have to go into it knowing you are building something will never be able to run the lines of even a RTR SCX10.
If the 330mm wheelbase body in question is the Raffee D110 hard body, GCM has an assortment of parts specifically meant to adapt the Cmax to that body.
It is a great platform for scale builds but performance is limited compared to any of the mainstream scale platforms with much more suspension travel. They are low, stable, and quite capable for a realistic build but you have to go into it knowing you are building something will never be able to run the lines of even a RTR SCX10.
If the 330mm wheelbase body in question is the Raffee D110 hard body, GCM has an assortment of parts specifically meant to adapt the Cmax to that body.
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
The question I was asking was in regards to the articulation...how the coilovers compare to the links & leaf-springs. As I haven't built the TF2, I don't yet know what it's articulation is. Also, being that the only crawler I have completely built is my Capra (the Trail King is very close, but as I haven't decided on a body, I haven't yet purchased any wheels), I can't use its articulation as an example.
I'm going to be making complete assumptions in this example, as I have nothing (yet) to determine accrual measurements. Anyway, if a leaf-spring based truck had 1-2” or articulation, and a link based truck had 5-6" (maybe even as much as 7"), where would coil-overs fall? What could one expect the earticulation range to be? The GCM C-MAX chassis is the only chassis that I'm aware of that offers (actually, it's what it comes with) a coil-over suspension.
What it could down to is this: If a coil-over offers an articulation that's equal, or close, to that of a link suspension, then the C-MAX could possible be the best chassis for my proposed project. On the other hand, if the articulation is closed to that of a leaf-spring, then the link suspension is the only solution...tho, since the C-MAX does support a link suspension 'upgrade', the C-MAX would still be a viable possibility (just as the VS4-10 chassis still would).
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
svt923 nailed it...
Since I don't have one of these, I cannot comment on the actual articulation, but I would be inclined to think that it's in between linked and leaved, probably closer to linked. Keep in mind that articulation will be limited by the length of shocks used. Short shocks are nice for a scale acting suspension, while longer shocks will give you the articulation you're envisioning. Also, a long wheelbase chassis is more difficult to harness going over hills.
There are many videos on you-tube that may give you some better view into the actual articulation of some of the builds with the CMAX chassis. If you have a body in mind, let us know what it is. Maybe new info will stem from knowing that. "thumbsup"
Since I don't have one of these, I cannot comment on the actual articulation, but I would be inclined to think that it's in between linked and leaved, probably closer to linked. Keep in mind that articulation will be limited by the length of shocks used. Short shocks are nice for a scale acting suspension, while longer shocks will give you the articulation you're envisioning. Also, a long wheelbase chassis is more difficult to harness going over hills.
There are many videos on you-tube that may give you some better view into the actual articulation of some of the builds with the CMAX chassis. If you have a body in mind, let us know what it is. Maybe new info will stem from knowing that. "thumbsup"
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
After reading up, and watching several videos on, the C-MAX, it's not worth considering. Yes, it is a link-based suspension (although transitioning it to a leaf-spring setup it possible), but its closer to a leaf suspension than it is a traditional link suspension. Articulation is, essentially, the same as it would be on a leaf-spring suspension, but you are very limited in what axles can be used (primarily due to the coil buckets), which means I wouldn't be able to use the SSD portals. So...the VS4-10 chassis is back to bring the #1 contender. Thanks, 58_Willys, for the suggestion, but it's just not meant to be.
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
I've been purposely "holding back" on mentioning the body...but, I might as well:
HMMWV (full slant-back military)
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
Aaahh. "thumbsup"
lonleycreeper
I wanna be Dave
Being that it is a Hummer...
Why not build a independent 4x4 with portals?
Traxxas Slash 4x4 with portals? I have always wanted to do a build like that....
Other thoughts....
Articulation is not always the end all answer to performance. I have found over a few different builds that much more than 4" is not necessary for good rough terrain handling, and is often a hindrance. A wheel falls into a hole and wedges... Or you articulate and flop over... Side hilling is a total flop literally.... tq twist is much more pernounced...and on and on.
Long wheel base rigs are fun, and are incredibly capable in vert climbs. I found my 14 7/8" long wheel base F650 did not need nearly as much articulation as the shorter wheel base rigs. I ran 70mm coilovers on both ends and she would match the articulation of a typical 90mm scx10.
Why not build a independent 4x4 with portals?
Traxxas Slash 4x4 with portals? I have always wanted to do a build like that....
Other thoughts....
Articulation is not always the end all answer to performance. I have found over a few different builds that much more than 4" is not necessary for good rough terrain handling, and is often a hindrance. A wheel falls into a hole and wedges... Or you articulate and flop over... Side hilling is a total flop literally.... tq twist is much more pernounced...and on and on.
Long wheel base rigs are fun, and are incredibly capable in vert climbs. I found my 14 7/8" long wheel base F650 did not need nearly as much articulation as the shorter wheel base rigs. I ran 70mm coilovers on both ends and she would match the articulation of a typical 90mm scx10.
Panther6834
I wanna be Dave
To your first point, unless you have a way of custom designing & fabrication parts to create/build your own portal axles, as well as a way of mounting them to a Slash 4x4 (you'd probably want to use the Rally A-arms, not the Slash/Rustler/Stampede A-arms), I don't see how it would be possible.
As for your second point, I don't have any real experience with this on RCs...but, having owned 1:1 4x4s, I'd have to agree. Can't tell you how many times I got myself (meaning my vehicle, not me, personally) into trouble, especially when I was stationed back way, at Ft. Bragg.
Finally, on point 3, again, now personal RC experience, but noted, and very h much work taking into consideration....which also raises some questions. I still never got an actual weight for the body I'm considering, but, from what I understand, it is somewhat heavier than usual (I've also been told that, while the majority of the parts are hard (probably ABS) plastic, there are, evidently, some metal parts). Knowing that, and going on what 58_Willys said about spring lengths & articulation on coil-Suspension vehicles, something just popped into my mind.
Normally, longer springs would raise the vehicle height, thus increasing the COG, but would also increase articulation. With standard shocks, it would be akin to increasing the preload. Likewise, a shorter spring (akin to little, or no, preload) would lower the vehicle, lower the COG, but would also decrease articulation. However, due to the heavier weight of the body, would I be correct in assuming that a longer spring (of the same compression weight) would position the rails & body at approx the same height as shorter springs with a lighter body would...but, at the same time, would also give greater articulation?
With the off-road vehicles I've build in the past, all that's been of concern is the spring's compression weight (soft, medium, hard, etc)...but, if I'm correct in my assumption, with a coil suspension, there are two factors to consider - length, AND compression weight. If my assumption is correct, this could lead me to reconsider the C-MAX...except for one remaining problem - the ability to use the SSD portals, as I don't see any way of using them with the C-MAX chassis.
~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
