Capra motor/ esc replacement questions

[2wdx2]

I just ended up with a Crawlmaster sport 20T 540 by accident and it was only $15 so I figured I'd try it. I have a 11T and rear vanquish 10% underdrive at this point. And I didn't seem to have any issues with heat. It was a cool day - 60's - and I don't really trail it - just slow crawling. It was just slightly warm. I know Holmes recommends a 9-10T so idk if maybe the rear underdrive, or just my slow type of driving?

I think I noticed the drag brake was less though when I was testing it in the house at install - but wasn't terribly distracting on the rocks. I meant to test it on a limit-of-traction slope, but forgot to. Will try that tomorrow probably.

Overall it didn't feel worlds different from the stock motor - a bit smoother I'd say. My Vanquish Phoenix with trailmaster 550 feels like a fine swiss watch compared to the capra with either motor (both hw1080). I don't really know what makes the big difference though - I would guess it's primarily the nicer trans, not the motor. But those are the only two rigs I have experience with.

I didnt see your reply (on time) went and ordered the 540 sport 20T. It's not that expensive so i will try it out. If that wont work i will go with the "big hammer" Solution, the Fusion 2300kv with the FOC system. I bet that will smooth it..

 

[chilly]

Yeah it’s nice to find something that’s actually cheap in this hobby just play with and try.
I’ve actually been liking that 20T. I put a little expo on my throttle and it really is very smooth and slow starting. It definitely doesn’t have enough drag brake to hold still on the steepest descents, but it’s extremely controllable and easy to keep in place With throttle or slowly creep up or down the hill without being jumpy at all. That’s with a hobby wing 1080 with freewheeling enabled.

For only $16 I just got a trail master 55T that I’ll swap in just to see how they compare.


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[2wdx2]

Yeah it’s nice to find something that’s actually cheap in this hobby just play with and try.
I’ve actually been liking that 20T. I put a little expo on my throttle and it really is very smooth and slow starting. It definitely doesn’t have enough drag brake to hold still on the steepest descents, but it’s extremely controllable and easy to keep in place With throttle or slowly creep up or down the hill without being jumpy at all. That’s with a hobby wing 1080 with freewheeling enabled.

For only $16 I just got a trail master 55T that I’ll swap in just to see how they compare.


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I would be interested to hear how the trail master compared.

I just tried mine with stock everything except the 11T here on the floor.
I dont think its not smooth or jerky, but i think what is happening it doesnt have enough low end torque. In order to go over obstacle i need to apply more throttle (than a motor with more torque). When i'm on top of that obstacle it has too much throttle and it jumps forward. Unless you quick enough to let go.

 

[high plains drifter]

@ chilly- Have you played around with the drag-brake setting on the 1080? Or does the drag-brake not function with free-wheel enabled?

 

[2wdx2]

Yeah it’s nice to find something that’s actually cheap in this hobby just play with and try.
I’ve actually been liking that 20T. I put a little expo on my throttle and it really is very smooth and slow starting. It definitely doesn’t have enough drag brake to hold still on the steepest descents, but it’s extremely controllable and easy to keep in place With throttle or slowly creep up or down the hill without being jumpy at all. That’s with a hobby wing 1080 with freewheeling enabled.

For only $16 I just got a trail master 55T that I’ll swap in just to see how they compare.


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I would be interested to hear how the trail master compared.

I just tried mine with stock everything except the 11T here on the floor.
I dont think its not smooth or jerky, but i think what is happening it doesnt have enough low end torque. In order to go over obstacle i need to apply more throttle (than a motor with more torque). When i'm on top of that obstacle it has too much throttle and it jumps forward. Unless you quick enough to let go.

 

[chilly]

I haven’t really tried different settings back to back, and I’m no expert, but my understanding of that freewheeling setting is that it intelligently will coordinate the drag brake with the throttle so as you give it light throttle while you’re going down it will crawl under control. As opposed to the stock ESC that as soon as I touched the throttle at all the brake turned off and it just started rolling downhill like a freight train. I Haven’t tested settings back to back though.

I have all the same settings on my vanquish Phoenix, and it will sit parked on the steepest hill it can hold traction on. So I think it’s the motor and transmission combination, not a ESC setting.


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[2wdx2]

This is my capra stock :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKh_u1imVDs&t=124s

And with 11T pinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cF0_RyKY0Q

After installing the 11T i noticed that if i'm gentle with the throttle its ok. With that said i think it doesnt have enough low end torque. This resulting in difficulty modulating speed over obstacles.
When i apply enough throttle in order to climb a rock and when the wheel is on top of the rock, it has too much throttle and will jump forward.
Unless you fast enough to leave the throttle - i find it close to impossible to modulate.
Maybe more torque will help with getting constant speed.

 

[chilly]

Yeah that's possible. It doesn't look too bad in the videos, but the ESC swap could help, it made a big difference for me.

I just threw a couple clips up - this was still the stock motor, but with a HW1080 and 11T:

It's pretty smooth even there and the 20T helps further Capra crawl

 

[2wdx2]

Sounds good. If you notice in the video it doest look like there is any brake.
So yeah maybe a 1080 will help here

 

[2wdx2]

Sounds good. If you notice in the video it doest look like there is any brake.
So yeah maybe a 1080 will help here

I guess the stock firma 40 can be programmed with the hobbywing card. There few settings that can help with smoother startup.


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[chilly]

I guess the stock firma 40 can be programmed with the hobbywing card. There few settings that can help with smoother startup.

Oh I guess the RTR 4WS has different electronics - I didn't realize that, so yeah give that a shot, maybe it's better than what came in the 2WS... Dynamite something or other, with just jumpers.

 

[2wdx2]

Oh I guess the RTR 4WS has different electronics - I didn't realize that, so yeah give that a shot, maybe it's better than what came in the 2WS... Dynamite something or other, with just jumpers.

Yes i believe Firma40 is made by HobbyWing and it may be actually 1080 combined with a receiver. The HobbyWing 1080 card works with it.
So i can change the motor start, the default is somewhere in the middle.

 

[high plains drifter]

@ chilly and 2wdx2 - Really appreciate you continuing to chime in here about your experience and findings on this topic. I'm reading along intently.

 

[2wdx2]

@ chilly and 2wdx2 - Really appreciate you continuing to chime in here about your experience and findings on this topic. I'm reading along intently.

Of course will keep update on how the crawlmaster 20T works on my Capra with different settings on the esc. Im going to post a video showing the Effects of the different pinions 11t vs 14t using both the stock motor and the CM. Hope it will help someone in the future.

If none of the above help, I may go with 3 gear transmission or brushless fusion with FOC.


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[2wdx2]

Replaced the motor, didn’t have a chance yet to go outside and try it.
Did some experimenting at home:

Doesn’t seems like a dramatic change but time will tell.

https://youtu.be/xMZIdWZj5cg


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[chilly]

I finally got around to trying the holmes 55T trail master to compare it against the 20T crawl master. I don’t have any videos, but it definitely has a stronger drag brake and is somewhat less smooth with fine low speed control. Not bad, but not as good.

I am not sure how much better it is than stock - I’m too lazy to put the stock back on in test them back to back. It’s not a jump up and down difference from the stock 35t, but I’m definitely gonna stick with it. I really liked the 20 T crawlmaster, but the drag brake just wasn’t strong enough to hold it and it was becoming a little annoying.

All that aligns with what the holmes recommendations were, so I think we all know he’s a smart guy by now, turns out, it’s true!


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[high plains drifter]

I finally got around to trying the holmes 55T trail master to compare it against the 20T crawl master. I don’t have any videos, but it definitely has a stronger drag brake and is somewhat less smooth with fine low speed control. Not bad, but not as good.

I am not sure how much better it is than stock - I’m too lazy to put the stock back on in test them back to back. It’s not a jump up and down difference from the stock 35t, but I’m definitely gonna stick with it. I really liked the 20 T crawlmaster, but the drag brake just wasn’t strong enough to hold it and it was becoming a little annoying.

All that aligns with what the holmes recommendations were, so I think we all know he’s a smart guy by now, turns out, it’s true!


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chilly- Thanks so much for your contributions here. It helped me and I hope, others.

 

[2wdx2]

latest video with the new ISDT70 ESC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hukghCXe4c

 

[King Dork]

My 2 cents regarding this odd creature called the Capra. I “think” with the weird ratio of the stock gearbox it would take a quality hand wound motor in the appropriate kv range to get decent low speed control. I originally had a Castle Mamba X and a Holmes Revolver V2 2200kv in mine and it was butter smooth on the low end, but likely because of the mega torque and incredible low speed control of the Revolver motor. Swapped it for a Holmes 2200kv Puller Pro Stubby and the low speed wasn’t near as good with the same esc settings. I will say that the top speed was much faster than needed with either of those motors and a 11 tooth pinion. I have since swapped in a Hobbywing Fusion 1800kv (along with a Spare Time Hobbies center skid to make it possible to fit the motor) and running a 11 tooth pinion it has incredible low speed control, Velcro-like drag brake, and the top speed is perfect for me. 1800kv or less with a high end brushed motor would likely make the Capra behave well using the stock gearbox.
Having said that, IF the new Hobbywing Fusion SE would fit with the stock skid (or with an aftermarket skid) it should be an incredible choice given the $70-80 price tag.

 

[2wdx2]

My 2 cents regarding this odd creature called the Capra. I “think” with the weird ratio of the stock gearbox it would take a quality hand wound motor in the appropriate kv range to get decent low speed control. I originally had a Castle Mamba X and a Holmes Revolver V2 2200kv in mine and it was butter smooth on the low end, but likely because of the mega torque and incredible low speed control of the Revolver motor. Swapped it for a Holmes 2200kv Puller Pro Stubby and the low speed wasn’t near as good with the same esc settings. I will say that the top speed was much faster than needed with either of those motors and a 11 tooth pinion. I have since swapped in a Hobbywing Fusion 1800kv (along with a Spare Time Hobbies center skid to make it possible to fit the motor) and running a 11 tooth pinion it has incredible low speed control, Velcro-like drag brake, and the top speed is perfect for me. 1800kv or less with a high end brushed motor would likely make the Capra behave well using the stock gearbox.
Having said that, IF the new Hobbywing Fusion SE would fit with the stock skid (or with an aftermarket skid) it should be an incredible choice given the $70-80 price tag.

I may do the same and try to install 9-10t pinion and theFusion SE.
OR go with what i consider better solution, the amazon 3 gear transmission.