2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion

[Dezertdirt]

First off, there was a thread on this and got deleted because it became a pissing match that the admin won by deleting it. It is a good idea discuss the never ending and constantly changing rules of comp. Please try to not make it such a pissing contest this time. Anyway, discuss new ideas, new classes, new rules, dying classes, and unfair rules.

My idea is a run what you brung class. Lines have gotten too extreme for newbs to get into it. The cost of building a truely capable rig is out of this world. It used be possible to run an older or semi-stock rig and not feel completely inadequate.

 

[cboggs]

I brung up the idea of a 1.9 SCX10 class that anyone would be able to get into before the thread was deleted. No pissing from me, just wanting to know what Mr. Holmes thought the problem was in the classes that are currently successful and slowly growing again. The 1.9 should be based on something that can be currently bought off the shelf, not something that a major manufacturer may or may not get into in the very distant future. Lets keep it simple, leave off the scale stuff as that isn't the intent of a comp crawler as pure performance is what we're all about. Im sure a rail chassis rig can be made to do what we do without totally changing the entire car. But then again this is all pointless if our leader refuses to listen to the people that are keeping this segment of our hobby going.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

I hid it because most folks took it the wrong way and I didn't want to rile up others. There were still lots of good points made and I have it where I can read it still. It wasn't a pissing match, people are just expressing their views and concerns and I appreciate it.

 

[Curcal]

A run what you brung class is perfectly reasonable, but in my opinion it is something where anyone can show up, run gates,learn rules, and get bit by the comp bug. Then they can build anything they want to compete. RWYB is the dealers free sample. Thenonly difference is they can come and stay there as long or as short as they'd like. All good things... right? Yes

But imo a RWYB class shouldnt be at RCORVA worlds, nats, or need to be a sanctioned class, but would be something local groups and clubs should consider to bring up new drivers and drum uplocal interest.

 

[Erik D_lux]

But imo a RWYB class shouldnt be at RCORVA worlds, nats, or need to be a sanctioned class, but would be something local groups and clubs should consider to bring up new drivers and drum uplocal interest.

Exactly!

IMO, this goes along with trail class or any other type of class that is not 1.9 (I could do without 1.9's ), 2.2S, 2.2M or Super.

If we want to make improvements, what I think we really need is to boil everything down to the above. Get rid of all the extra stuff.

On a National level, what we REALLY do need is to have consistent qualifiers and SOME SORT OF PROMOTION OF THE HOBBY.

 

[binaryterror]

I hid it because most folks took it the wrong way and I didn't want to rile up others. There were still lots of good points made and I have it where I can read it still. It wasn't a pissing match, people are just expressing their views and concerns and I appreciate it.

Whew, I was gonna be mad, I actually made good points and not just trolled! Haha :lmao:

IMO, this goes along with trail class or any other type of class that is not 1.9 (I could do without 1.9's ), 2.2S, 2.2M or Super.

If we want to make improvements, what I think we really need is to boil everything down to the above. Get rid of all the extra stuff.

"thumbsup""thumbsup"

 

[tapped-out]

Only other thing I'd add is stop changing/watering down the "pro comp" rule-set/specs 2.2M/pro,2.2s,supers ect... we need consistent rules. IMO rules are working fine as is every time rules get a edit it creates a grey area.

 

[chevotafun]

Exactly!

IMO, this goes along with trail class or any other type of class that is not 1.9 (I could do without 1.9's ), 2.2S, 2.2M or Super.

If we want to make improvements, what I think we really need is to boil everything down to the above. Get rid of all the extra stuff.

On a National level, what we REALLY do need is to have consistent qualifiers and SOME SORT OF PROMOTION OF THE HOBBY.

Only other thing I'd add is stop changing/watering down the "pro comp" rule-set/specs 2.2M/pro,2.2s,supers ect... we need consistent rules. IMO rules are working fine as is every time rules get a edit it creates a grey area.

I agree with both of these statements. "thumbsup"
We need to stick to the rules we have and stop watering down the classes with extra rules and extra classes that just create more grey area.

 

[Dezertdirt]

The other thing that I believe that will help get people interested in comp is complete kits (CCC's berg in a box) from vendors. I agree with the above pro rules need to stay the same. Just a thought but maybe turn the unlimited classes into a single class with no rules just a sort of anything goes except maybe limit the budget to under $1000 so it doesn't get to the point where pro and super class is at where people either spend crazy $$$$ or become sponsored and get the best stuff free.

 

[tapped-out]

The other thing that I believe that will help get people interested in comp is complete kits (CCC's berg in a box) from vendors.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for said kit..that day has come and gone(xr10 & rc4wd) although you can still buy a losi 2.0 and compete in 2.2s class.

IMO RCORVA/USRCCA rules/specs, and if a vendor will slap a moa crawler kit together are 2 different subjects.

 

[Dezertdirt]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for said kit..that day has come and gone(xr10 & rc4wd) although you can still buy a losi 2.0 and compete in 2.2s class.

IMO RCORVA/USRCCA rules/specs, and if a vendor will slap a moa crawler kit together are 2 different subjects.

You're right they are two different subjects but I couldn't think of another place to put it. The reason I brought up kits is that it has become harder and harder for new people to get into comp with parts getting harder to find and the parts that do exsist are getting more costly. Also, a stock losi 2 would completely flounder in 2.2s as the lines have gotten closer and closer to moa lines. Shafty lines have become truely amazing.
Anyway, one major change needs to happen for the 1.9 class. It either needs to be allowed to die and the rules deleted or allow scx10 axles and a larger tires.

 

[Robbob]

run what ya brung/unlimited what ever you wanna call it is a 'fun' idea but personally don't think its something should hold a spot at a qualifier or national event.

I like that you don't need to make qualifiers now to go to the worlds. I think that was a positive move but why not use them differently?

Hey how about you win a qualifier and you get free worlds entry into that class? Huh that would give a little more meaning to winning it? A little more push to going. Help bring the qualifier attendances up or hold steady at least.

2.2S rules were reworded to limit that possibility of MOA axles being used and the spirit of the class kept intact. That was good but why think about changing the class to bodiless to let 4 year old trucks compete? Those are the grey areas/can of worms we don't need.

Curious though as I was awol when the whole change of command took place but why isn't there a committee of people helping to adjust rules and promote the hobby anymore? Not trying to start rumbles just an honest question that puzzled me or is there?

Originally Posted by Dezertdirt
The other thing that I believe that will help get people interested in comp is complete kits (CCC's berg in a box) from vendors.

We had big company interest years ago until something was done that changed their minds. Thankfully the 'public' spoke up here and it was changed. Sadly though I think the damaged was already done.

 

[chevotafun]

I agree, The winners of a Qualifier event should get something for winning to make it worth attending one, now that anyone can buy a ticket to world, Which is a great way to get more people to attend worlds IMO, but also waters down the Qualifiers if there isn't a reason to attend the qualifiers.
IMO we need more qualifiers and MORE THAN ANYTHING WE NEED TO PROMOTE THE HOBBY.

Yes I was wondering why there is no committee as well? I know I heard something along the lines that John figured they didn't need one yet. Not 100% on that tho.

Having a run what you brung class would be fun, but would die fast as well. Because some people would go nuts with this class and it would be out of reach of most to complete in this class like what has happened to the Pro class and starting to happen with sportsman as well.
It was a good move remove the MOA diffs from the sportsman class IMO.

 

[Curcal]

HAHAHAHA..... You guys crack me up.

I've been mulling with this idea for a while now. It's been inspired by a few things that I know other clubs are already doing.

RWYB Class <- not a replacement for anyother class (merely a tool to promote comp crawling) when i implement this class locally it would be on a separate day entirly from a 2.2m comp

All RCORVA Scoring Rules apply (IE.. 1pt reverse, 5 pts Roll Over, 10 pts Gate, etc)

20" Gates (This size gate will fit anything from a 1.9 mini or scx10 to a super or summit)

~6min course

~15 gates that get progressively harder
gates 1-5 1.9 mini or 1.9 scx10 gates (still 20")
6-8 2.2 gates for a wraith type class
8-10 2.2 sport class gates
11-13 2.2 Mod/Pro gates
14-15 Super gates

Course completion occurs when you complete your section of gates and all other proceeding them, if you complete any gates after your section those are considered bonus (-5 per gate, this amount is negotiable). Low score wins respective class.

Judge the guy in front of you. Everyone needs to learn the rules.

I have been considering this format for a couple reasons.

1. Open (no exculsion)
2. Allows drivers to pick what ever rig they want to drive that day
3. Gives opportunity for new people to chalenge themselves to progress their driving skill with their rig.
4. Also gives opportunity for someone to see a higher class truck drive the same course and some of the same lines as their rig. (while some might get discouraged, most will think "that thing is so cool")
5. Gives "comparison" to different classes across a wide variety of drivers. (How did Jrock do in his scx10 in comparison to me on my xr10 [he would still probably kick my butt])
6. New blood, new exposure, new people learning rules.
7. Hopefully people will begin to gain ownership in building our hobby <- big hope

 

[youngblood]

The other thing that I believe that will help get people interested in comp is complete kits (CCC's berg in a box) from vendors.

If I could get something like this I'd possibly be interested in dipping my toe back into the comp side. I can get a full carbon fiber 250 quad racer kit off ebay for $120 but I cant hardly buy just a set of CF 2.2 rims for that much. A nice pro roller kit in the 3-400 dollar range would grab a lot of peoples attention again.

 

[Curcal]

$300- 400 like the XR10? How long did that last? I got mine for $200, and yet Axial was in and out within ~3 years(maybe less) Regardles of what people say that was a decent crawler right out of the box. needed tweeks and tuning but it was there. There are still guys who drive mostly stock XR's and still are a force to be reckoned with...... that said, sacle rollers are right at $300 and that is our entry point. Hence RWYB.

Learn how to judge and score, drive, if you like it come back, if you continue to like it and want to make the harder lines build something (there's guys here that can help you figure out what you want)

Which boils down to interest... we have to build this before manufacture support will even take a look at going back to comp crawling.

 

[chevotafun]

Ok I will use are club for an example most new comer get scared off when they see the comp crawler trucks and this is why we run on different days now. Too many complainers out there. People in our club who do both scale and crawler have the non crawler guys complaining that the crawler guys know how to set there truck up better than the scale guys.

IMO you lose 5 people to gain 1 and that one is like us we like the thought of building something that will out do the guy out front kicking peoples ass, but most are like I will never beat that guy so why even come out.
Hey even some of the crawler are complainer as well, I know when I started with a stock XR, I was hanging in there with the seasoned guys of the club, Then I found RCC and WOW the crawling world opened wide for me, all these aftermarket parts I could get and did get, which started a whole other issue, Oh he has the best of the best I will never beat him, or to beat him I will have to drop 2grand to compete with him.

Its a tough call either way, some will like it and some won't, But having a noobie completing against a season driving is a sure way of chasing them away, and having a scx10 running against a crawler is plan unfair Unless there is someway of leveling the playing field. cause it is human nature to want to win and if they don't have a chance odds r they will stop coming. Just my 2 cents from what I have seen with our club and other hobbies I have been apart of.

Oh and in regards to qualifiers
How do we go about hosting one?
I have emailed John, but haven't heard back from him.

 

[Robbob]

Which boils down to interest... we have to build this before manufacture support will even take a look at going back to comp crawling.

2012 we had interest
Hot Bodies Competition Rock Crawler | CompetitionX


Stay with what works, what was working then.

 

[tapped-out]

2012 we had interest
Hot Bodies Competition Rock Crawler | CompetitionX


Stay with what works, what was working then.

So does anybody own one of these or even seen one? 1st time i've seen this rig..

 

[Hittman]

Running trail class locally grew our club a ton last year. Not only did it grow the scale side, but it also grew the comp side. Once guys actually saw what they were, and could drive one, they wanted to build one.

Our trail class is very laid back. We have 2.2 and 1.9. That's it. Few basic rules (no comp tires, no knuckle weights, ect) but nothing saying what you have to run. When you introduce too many classes, it gets hard to judge where everyone should run. If we have 2 guys with a metal tube chassis in 2.2, do me make them run separate from the other 8 of us? No, why would you?
Personally I think a simplification of trail class would put more people into the hobby.

Comp side wise.. The rules of that were introduced to 2.2M and 2.2S this year were meant to simplify it. And really I think it did? No side panels for 2.2M and super, and no body dimensions on 2.2S. Those were the two "big" ones from what I remember.

Comp crawling has evolved into such a specialty thing.. Only the truly devoted still do it. How you can change that, I'm not too sure. Like Chevotafun said, why loose 5 to gain 1? I think if you make too drastic of changes to the comp classes right now, it will kill it.