Looking to get a MOA and a Trail rig!

[Krawler23]

i have a wraith spawn and its hands down more capable than any other scale rig i have when set up right they kick ass but it took $1000 to get it there out of the box it broke alot almost every run but once i upgraded all the broken parts with aftermarket parts it hasent broke a thing
my only issue with the wraith is it makes most obsticles to easy

Really? $1000 that’s crazy. I mean, if it’s awesome though, why not! What all did you have to replace to get it durable? See that’s the thing that makes me want to shy away from the Wraith. If it’s that weak from the outset, yet pretty pricey, I’m having trouble seeing the value of it. I wish Axial would’ve just made it stronger from the beginning.

If I ever had my own RC brand, I’d be making the most durable thing I could. I can’t stand weak RC’s that break too easy.

 

[Krawler23]

All signs point towards the 1.9" Wraith being discontinued - I would not get it unless you are aware that spare parts will be getting harder to find.

Thanks for the callout on that front. If that’s the case, I’ll steer clear of that one. I would’ve never known that. It’s a shame b/c I think it’s one of the better looking 1.9s out there. Maybe I can get that body and stick it on a Trail King.

All TRX4's have portal axles. The full-featured trx4 models have selectable lockers & a 2-speed trans. The Sport models lack those features. On those models the differentials are permanently locked & the transmission is a single speed. I have a full-featured trx4. The selectable lockers & 2-speed trans are fun to play with, but not needed for crawling or trailing. It's really not as fast as you think in high gear.

The trail King is basically a builder's kit with the highest quality components. You choose your motor & esc. In mine, I run a Holmes Hobbies 16t Crawlmaster expert motor & it's fast. A bit too fast for crawling. It works, but I really need to swap it out with a 13t. If you put a good brushed or brushless motor/esc It will be slow enough to crawl & have plenty of speed on the top end.

Thanks so much for such an in-depth answer! That really helps clear things up for me, so I really appreciate it. Couple of things:

Given that the TRX4 w/ a 2 speed isn’t that fast, it seems like it won’t entirely be worth it, even though I’m sure it’s still great. The only thing hanging me up still is the portal axles. I know it raises your center of gravity, but I know that will help clearance as well. Would you say that trade off is worth it?

Also, I thought lower turn motors were faster? You said your 16t was too fast so you we’re going to drop to a 13t, isn’t that faster? Keep in mind, I’d like to be able to go through water without destroying all of the electronics, I’ve heard brushed is better for that. Any recommendations for what motor (brushed/brushless) and motor turn / pinion gear to rock with?

 

[Krawler23]

Unless you want to get into the Dlux superlites. We don’t know your budget. I have both axles. I lean toward my dlux usually. Always great stuff.

Post in the wanted section if you set on the MOA. You could possibly pick a set up used pretty cheap and go from there.

Those axles are beautiful, but at $525 for just the front axle, I think I’ll pass. Maybe I could find a cheaper used set, but it’s still just too much $ for what I would get out of it. They do look amazing though. How much do you think a set of used front/rear dlux axles would set me back? I’ll look around and see if I find anything.

I put Bully front axles (for 4WS) on a Dlux Mercenary frame with 2.2 wheels. It out-performs my 4WS Capra and I know it's not fully dialed in. I'm new to crawling so that's no surprise. So far I'm happy with it and I know it's going to get better.

I'm going to be getting into scale but haven't built yet (have Vanquish Ultra and SSD TK kits). Not a lot out there for MOA as far as I can see - Bully and Dlux. People here in the forum know more than I know so they may be able to elaborate. As you can see there's no shortage of good info for trailing and scale crawling.

Man you got all the goodies. I look forward to seeing your scale builds! The Vanquish is seriously tempting, but at $500 for the kit, it’s a little hard for me to justify that. Maybe I can find a used one, but they seem so difficult to come by. If I found one used and built it out fairly nicely, nothing too crazy, how much do you think that’d be?

 

[ferp420]

Really? $1000 that’s crazy. I mean, if it’s awesome though, why not! What all did you have to replace to get it durable? See that’s the thing that makes me want to shy away from the Wraith. If it’s that weak from the outset, yet pretty pricey, I’m having trouble seeing the value of it. I wish Axial would’ve just made it stronger from the beginning.

If I ever had my own RC brand, I’d be making the most durable thing I could. I can’t stand weak RC’s that break too easy.

it is awsome i have to say and when it takes a dive off a 20ft rock and drives away thats priceless

but ya thats why i wont buy kits anymore its cheaper to just buy the aftermarket parts out the gate the only things left from the original wraith is the skid the trans case is a stock replacement as are 2 of the shocks oh maybe the electronics water trap box but i dought its gona get reused when i rebuild



something else to consider

1 i completely over powered it with a big brushless motor and heavy weighted wheels the 1/8 scale buggy motor and mmx were 250 of that



2 there wasent anything else out there that was stronger so it was what it was

now days there are so many cheap wraith parts it would cost half that much to build

back in the day axial was the sherbert and the wraith was the flavor of the day and it held up better than most other brands

my tamiyas were breaking everytime out too so thats all i had to compaire to at the time so i was ok with the wraith not being as strong as i would have hoped for

my next axial was the yeti xl we all know were those went lol

the one thing that really pissed me off was axial telling me my wraith was to modified to run at axial fest that was the line in the sand in my book ill never buy another axial new again ill buy them used and i still buy stock parts when i need them but ill never buy a new kit or rtr again



since horizon took over they really relaxed the rules at axial fest and the new stuff is made much better now

every brand coming out now is pretty tough having compatition makes everyones rig better what ever the brand



now we get stuff that isent broken out of the box lol

 

[lonleycreeper]

And my rig is the complete opposite.
Mild mods

$50 for Universals
$6 metal gears
$6 for stainless steel straws
$3 8/40 all thread
$179 Copperhead /Slate motor combo
$80 Saxox 1210 servo.

A few bits and pieces of aluminum to move the battery forward and done...

Okay so I doubled the cost of the Wraith, but she is pretty bullet proof now. Most of it the Brushless system. and a good servo. When I break the plastic Knuckles or C Hubs, I will replace them with aluminum.

Also she is not stupidly overpowered

 

[Bob_in az]

Thanks so much for such an in-depth answer! That really helps clear things up for me, so I really appreciate it. Couple of things:

Given that the TRX4 w/ a 2 speed isn’t that fast, it seems like it won’t entirely be worth it, even though I’m sure it’s still great. The only thing hanging me up still is the portal axles. I know it raises your center of gravity, but I know that will help clearance as well. Would you say that trade off is worth it?

Also, I thought lower turn motors were faster? You said your 16t was too fast so you we’re going to drop to a 13t, isn’t that faster? Keep in mind, I’d like to be able to go through water without destroying all of the electronics, I’ve heard brushed is better for that. Any recommendations for what motor (brushed/brushless) and motor turn / pinion gear to rock with?

Yeah, you're right about the turn count on the motor. I got mixed up. I currently have 13t. I need to go with a 16t. For a good brushed setup on a Trail King, go with a Hobbywing 1080 esc & a 5-slot 540 Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster series motor. Around a 16t for strictly crawling or a 12t/13t if you want it faster. Use the stock pinion that comes in the kit. If I recall, it's 16t. This is all assuming you'll be running a 4.75" tall 1.9 tire.

As for portal axles, I can take them or leave them. It doesn't matter much to me. I have trucks with them & trucks without them. I don't see much of a difference on the trail. Portal axles have never been a deciding factor for me. If anything, there's more parts to break. Usually it's a broken/stripped output gear. It happens to all brands of portal axles.

 

[Krawler23]

My SSD Trail King. (My friends Trx4 behind it)

Class 2 comp style rigs are very popular with the guys I crawl with, and the SSD hangs with them with very few issues. My SSD has only UD gears out back and Proline G8 Krawlers. Newb question, are UD gears under drive gears? I never really understand what the overdrive/underdrive discussions are all about to be honest. I'm open to learning about this too to help inform my decision making.

Is the SSD a Class 2 comp rig? Or can it be made to be one? Yours looks like it from initial appearances. I don't plan on comping mine, but if I do, I would like to be in the Class 2 category. Where do I go to learn about what's available in my area as far as comping?

And my rig is the complete opposite.
Mild mods

$50 for Universals
$6 metal gears
$6 for stainless steel straws
$3 8/40 all thread
$179 Copperhead /Slate motor combo
$80 Saxox 1210 servo.

A few bits and pieces of aluminum to move the battery forward and done...

Okay so I doubled the cost of the Wraith, but she is pretty bullet proof now. Most of it the Brushless system. and a good servo. When I break the plastic Knuckles or C Hubs, I will replace them with aluminum.

Also she is not stupidly overpowered

That's not too expensive for mods, and it seems like it makes it really good while still being fairly inexpensive. Honestly I'm leaning towards the SSD Trail King right now because I think it'll look really cool and perform amazing at the same time.

Yeah, you're right about the turn count on the motor. I got mixed up. I currently have 13t. I need to go with a 16t. For a good brushed setup on a Trail King, go with a Hobbywing 1080 esc & a 5-slot 540 Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster series motor. Around a 16t for strictly crawling or a 12t/13t if you want it faster. Use the stock pinion that comes in the kit. If I recall, it's 16t. This is all assuming you'll be running a 4.75" tall 1.9 tire.

As for portal axles, I can take them or leave them. It doesn't matter much to me. I have trucks with them & trucks without them. I don't see much of a difference on the trail. Portal axles have never been a deciding factor for me. If anything, there's more parts to break. Usually it's a broken/stripped output gear. It happens to all brands of portal axles.

Ok cool thanks for clearing up that motor confusion and recommending a good setup for me. Seems like portals aren't worth the hassle so I probably won't be swayed to get them.



So far here's what I'm thinking:
SSD Trail King
1080 HobbyWing Esc
5-slot 540 13t Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster
Battery: ? What size should I get? I'd assume 3s for cells. I've heard great things about Zeee lipos.
Body: ? I am leaning towards a truck body so if you have any ideas, lmk.
TX: Hacked FlySky GT3B I use for my XR10 MOA
RX: FlySky GT3B 3CH RX
Servo: ? Something preferably waterproof.
Wheels, Tires, Foams: Proline Krawlers, Proline Hyrax, Proline Swampers or J Concepts Scorpios tires as recommended by Bob. Are the foams that with these tires any good? Or is it really worth getting new ones?
Wire Gauge: ? What gauge wire should I get for the motor to the esc?

I'd like to get this thing in water, not submerged, but enough to the point where it's fun and I don't have to worry about breaking anything. Do I need to get a different RX and waterproof the ESC from the get go? Or is it all good to go w/o anything? Also, do I need any sealant for the battery/esc connectors? I'm going to have to switch my chargers deans connectors over to whatever I end up with, so I wanted to have some solder and heat shrink supplies if I need to solder anything up.

 

[lonleycreeper]

Is the SSD a Class 2 comp rig? Or can it be made to be one? Yours looks like it from initial appearances. I don't plan on comping mine, but if I do, I would like to be in the Class 2 category. Where do I go to learn about what's available in my area as far as comping?


That's not too expensive for mods, and it seems like it makes it really good while still being fairly inexpensive. Honestly I'm leaning towards the SSD Trail King right now because I think it'll look really cool and perform amazing at the same time.


Ok cool thanks for clearing up that motor confusion and recommending a good setup for me. Seems like portals aren't worth the hassle so I probably won't be swayed to get them.



So far here's what I'm thinking:
SSD Trail King
1080 HobbyWing Esc
5-slot 540 13t Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster
Battery: ? What size should I get? I'd assume 3s for cells. I've heard great things about Zeee lipos.
Body: ? I am leaning towards a truck body so if you have any ideas, lmk.
TX: Hacked FlySky GT3B I use for my XR10 MOA
RX: FlySky GT3B 3CH RX
Servo: ? Something preferably waterproof.
Wheels, Tires, Foams: ? I'd like some blacked out beadlocks with good tires and foams. I like the look of beefier, more aggressive looking tires. Once again, not too sure on this one.
Wire Gauge: ? What gauge wire should I get for the motor to the esc? Feel free to drop an Amazon link if you have one.

I'd like to get this thing in water, not submerged, but enough to the point where it's fun and I don't have to worry about breaking anything. Do I need to get a different RX and waterproof the ESC from the get go? Or is it all good to go w/o anything? Also, do I need any sealant for the battery/esc connectors? I'm going to have to switch my chargers deans connectors over to whatever I end up with, so I wanted to have some solder and heat shrink supplies if I need to solder anything up.

I built my SSD with class 2 in mind. But it is not officially a comp rig. if that makes sense.

3s 2200 mah batteries give me 1-1.5 hours of runtime with my 16t Crawl Master Sport motor. The 1080 is "waterproof" from the factory. I run a Savox 0231 in my Trail King, it's enough for most things in my lightweight rig.

My Wraith I built with budget in mind and only parts that would improve performance.

 

[Krawler23]

What about the XS01 or XS02 kit? It seems like the XS01 is discontinued but it looks really nice because it’s all metal.

Also, what about hard bodies? They look a lot nicer, but I didn’t know if they’re more prone to breaking etc. I’m thinking either a Jeep body or a old Chevy C10 pickup body. Any good hard/soft body versions of those I should be considering?

 

[lonleycreeper]

What about the XS01 or XS02 kit? It seems like the XS01 is discontinued but it looks really nice because it’s all metal.

Also, what about hard bodies? They look a lot nicer, but I didn’t know if they’re more prone to breaking etc. I’m thinking either a Jeep body or a old Chevy C10 pickup body. Any good hard/soft body versions of those I should be considering?

I don't know what the XSO1/XSO2 is?

Hard bodies are much more detailed than lexan bodies as a general rule. newer Lexan bodies with bolt on accessories are getting close to the same detail levels. I pulled the Toyota hard body because I got tired of gluing it back together after tumbles a Lexan body laughs at. I am now running a lexan Bronco on my Trail King...

 

[WHITE-TRASH]

The bully 2 is craptastic. Heavy and prone to failure with limited repair parts from rc3wd.

You already own an xr10 so slap dual escs in it and a newer chassis and party. If the gears fail Dluxfab has you covered since they just started getting gears made.

For a tough trail rig you will not beat a trx4. I have had 10.2 up to vs410 pros and the trx4 is far and away the toughest rig of them all even on 2.2s and 4s brushless.

 

[durok]

I don't know what the XSO1/XSO2 is?

Xtra Speed makes the XSO1/XSO2... "thumbsup"

 

[Krawler23]

The bully 2 is craptastic. Heavy and prone to failure with limited repair parts from rc3wd.

You already own an xr10 so slap dual escs in it and a newer chassis and party. If the gears fail Dluxfab has you covered since they just started getting gears made.

For a tough trail rig you will not beat a trx4. I have had 10.2 up to vs410 pros and the trx4 is far and away the toughest rig of them all even on 2.2s and 4s brushless.

I didn’t know Dluxfab was making gears for the XR10. When did he start doing that? It seems like the XR10 is kind of making a comeback a little bit. Maybe I will stick with it. Mine definitely needs better tires and wheels. What’s a good setup for my XR10? I’ve heard .7” on the front and 1” wide tires on the rear are popular. I’m thinking of going with a pin tire, unless there’s something better for MOA’s these days.

Maybe I’ll see if Dluxfab has some knuckle weights b/c right now I use the weights that axial originally gave me that go around the foams on the wheels itself, which is terrible for stressing the gears. You’ve kind of sparked my interest in the XR10 again now that I know there’s better parts support.

Have you ever heard of the 2 bolt mod for it? Is it worth it?

I have heard the TRX4 is seriously tough. Kevin Talbot put like 6s on that thing and bashed it in a skatepark and it’s held up. The fact a crawler can do that is insane. What do you think of the toughness of the SSD Trail King vs the TRX4? Or what about the scale builders kit that Traxxas offers? Is that worth it over an RTR? I’d rather build a kit honestly, RTR is trash imo.

 

[WHITE-TRASH]

I didn’t know Dluxfab was making gears for the XR10. When did he start doing that? It seems like the XR10 is kind of making a comeback a little bit. Maybe I will stick with it. Mine definitely needs better tires and wheels. What’s a good setup for my XR10? I’ve heard .7” on the front and 1” wide tires on the rear are popular. I’m thinking of going with a pin tire, unless there’s something better for MOA’s these days.

Maybe I’ll see if Dluxfab has some knuckle weights b/c right now I use the weights that axial originally gave me that go around the foams on the wheels itself, which is terrible for stressing the gears. You’ve kind of sparked my interest in the XR10 again now that I know there’s better parts support.

Have you ever heard of the 2 bolt mod for it? Is it worth it?

I have heard the TRX4 is seriously tough. Kevin Talbot put like 6s on that thing and bashed it in a skatepark and it’s held up. The fact a crawler can do that is insane. What do you think of the toughness of the SSD Trail King vs the TRX4? Or what about the scale builders kit that Traxxas offers? Is that worth it over an RTR? I’d rather build a kit honestly, RTR is trash imo.

Dlux can hook you up with knuckle weights, gears, shafts etc etc etc hell the moa chassis works with xr10 too.

I think you're talking about the through bolt mod where you run longer bolts all the way through the case with nuts holding the works together since the case halves tended to split under load.
I'm not a huge fan of the xr10 but you already own it so no point going goofy stepping into a whole new platform especially with dlux stepping up to the plate.

My trx4 is an rtr I got in a trade. I haven't had so much as a servo failure and I treat it terribly. The rtr radio is actually rather good and it's 5 channel. We aren't dealing with the spectrum garbage that horizon includes with their rigs.

 

[Krawler23]

Dlux can hook you up with knuckle weights, gears, shafts etc etc etc hell the moa chassis works with xr10 too.

I think you're talking about the through bolt mod where you run longer bolts all the way through the case with nuts holding the works together since the case halves tended to split under load.
I'm not a huge fan of the xr10 but you already own it so no point going goofy stepping into a whole new platform especially with dlux stepping up to the plate.

My trx4 is an rtr I got in a trade. I haven't had so much as a servo failure and I treat it terribly. The rtr radio is actually rather good and it's 5 channel. We aren't dealing with the spectrum garbage that horizon includes with their rigs.

What MOA do you prefer these days?

I'll check out DLUX's brass knuckle weights. I'm thinking of grabbing a set of Proline Ibex's for tires, how are they? Trying to find good MOA tires seems pretty impossible as there's not much out there as they're all discontinued. I'm thinking about pairing it with these shoes https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09C23Z91L/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A1EOVSUJ1N1VK0&psc=1

 

[WHITE-TRASH]

What MOA do you prefer these days?

I'll check out DLUX's brass knuckle weights. I'm thinking of grabbing a set of Proline Ibex's for tires, how are they? Trying to find good MOA tires seems pretty impossible as there's not much out there as they're all discontinued. I'm thinking about pairing it with these shoes https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09C23Z91L/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A1EOVSUJ1N1VK0&psc=1

I run a berg that's all Dluxfab end to end. I can buy everything all new and all aftermarket if needed, berg has killer aftermarket support.

Ibex are decent, check out dlux, they had a whole new tire built and they carry Huge Pins and ibex. They also have better wheels than those from Amazon although that's not a terrible price. I like to keep things local if possible.