Is there any reason not to 4 link the front on my Enduro?

[IronOKie]

My panhard bar is limiting the travel of my front suspension. I am using shock keys to angle the front (and rear) shocks so I have a lower ride height. This is great, except that my overall travel in the front is now significantly reduced by the axle housing (pumpkin) bumping the panhard bar.



I have ordered the InTheWorksRC angled panhard bar to get more travel, however I have been thinking about trying to get a single upper link and just 4-linking the front.


I am assuming, since there is no real cost savings by going 3-link with panhard (which is a 4th link), that there is some reason the engineers went panhard over 4 link, I just don't know what that is.


So, is there a reason to keep the panhard rather than 4-linking the front?

 

[Inspector86]

The problem is primarily packaging. There simply is not enough space available. I would look at offset rod ends and bending the pan hard bar to clear the axle.

 

[HumboldtEF]

Or you can go for a servo on axle setup plus the 4 link. 3 link setups will almost always have a chassis monted servo while 4 links will have axle mounted servos .

UC fab along with a few others offer an axle mount for the Enduro. https://www.beeftubes.com/store/p345/UCFAB_/_BEEF_TUBES_ELEMENT_AXLE_SERVO_MOUNT.html#/

This will require that there is some free space above the axle as you'll now need to clear the servo.

 

[Greatscott]

Bump steer is horrible with a 4-link and CMS. The pan-hard bar and the steering link are on the same plane, so they basically move together. Going to a 4-link and getting rid of the pan-hard will allow the axle to move independently with the steering.

 

[IronOKie]

Bump steer is horrible with a 4-link and CMS. The pan-hard bar and the steering link are on the same plane, so they basically move together. Going to a 4-link and getting rid of the pan-hard will allow the axle to move independently with the steering.

Makes sense, thank you for the sanity check!

 

[IronOKie]

Or you can go for a servo on axle setup plus the 4 link. 3 link setups will almost always have a chassis monted servo while 4 links will have axle mounted servos .

UC fab along with a few others offer an axle mount for the Enduro. https://www.beeftubes.com/store/p345/UCFAB_/_BEEF_TUBES_ELEMENT_AXLE_SERVO_MOUNT.html#/

This will require that there is some free space above the axle as you'll now need to clear the servo.

I think this might defeat the purpose of getting the overall ride-height lower while still maintaining travel. It's absolutely something to put in the future projects box though. I have wanted to build an axle mounted rig for awhile.

 

[MOguy]

Just did this with the UCFAB and there was a lot much flex in the rod ends and the steering was not good, but the bump steer is gone. I have changed the rod ends to better ones that helped. I have now moved the steering link up front of the axle and that helped even more. I hung everything under a Brazin SCX10 team chassis and there is plenty of room for things to move.


We will see. If this doesn't fix the flex situation I will put on some AR44s. The Enduro axles just are not worth this much hassle.

 

[HumboldtEF]

I'll just add that I have the same servo on axle mount from UC fab and I havent have any rod ends bending on me, steering is great. I heard that the first run of Enduro rod ends weren't holding onto the threads so good and had a bit larger of a hole and later they fixed or changed these. I wonder if you might have some of these early rod ends MOguy?

You could also try some traxxas rod ends which are the same M4 threads and have a lot more meat to them. The TRX4 has a nice variety of rod ends with various angled rod ends and one should be a close replacement, though I can tell you it will be a bit shorter than the Enduro rod ends.

 

[OSRC]

I am assuming, since there is no real cost savings by going 3-link with panhard (which is a 4th link), that there is some reason the engineers went panhard over 4 link, I just don't know what that is.

Panhard/3 link/CMS is just a more scale looking setup. They work fine and definitely clean up the front end.

A servo on axle is more a performance setup...servos are somewhat heavy, having them right on the axle is great for COG, and the direct linkage is better for steering.

Just doesn't look as scale so a lot of manufactures have switched over. It's the in thing. "thumbsup"

 

[MOguy]

I'll just add that I have the same servo on axle mount from UC fab and I havent have any rod ends bending on me, steering is great. I heard that the first run of Enduro rod ends weren't holding onto the threads so good and had a bit larger of a hole and later they fixed or changed these. I wonder if you might have some of these early rod ends MOguy?

You could also try some traxxas rod ends which are the same M4 threads and have a lot more meat to them. The TRX4 has a nice variety of rod ends with various angled rod ends and one should be a close replacement, though I can tell you it will be a bit shorter than the Enduro rod ends.

I switched to Traxxas ends and that helped allot. I have had issues with ends pulling out and ALLOT of flex at the panhard mount. I got rid of the Enduro ends when I change susp links and the chassis. BUT I REALLY like the hard plastic tans skid plate. I have a TGH 2 low trans and I used the element skid instead of TGHs because it sat in lower and the hard plastic skid slides well.

It works now but compared to other axles it just isn't the same. I run ar44 and they do much better. Even my TRX4 portals are more solid but they don't turn nearly as tight and for a class 2 and tight gates I don't like them. The Enduros should be fine. I plan on putting a strong servo in them if I can get them to work as good as I would like. I may just be expecting too much out of them.

Probably the hardest thing is sharing ideas when it comes to the Enduro. It seems everybody takes it to personally. Axial people are all about changing it up and TRX4 people are happy with anything as long as it comes in brass.

 

[MOguy]

Panhard/3 link/CMS is just a more scale looking setup. They work fine and definitely clean up the front end.

A servo on axle is more a performance setup...servos are somewhat heavy, having them right on the axle is great for COG, and the direct linkage is better for steering.

Just doesn't look as scale so a lot of manufactures have switched over. It's the in thing. "thumbsup"

This is important to many. If you comp there may rules about where the servo can be.

 

[Phyro]

I am actually going to bash on a different Element product. The Enduro24 has a 3 link that is a y-link up top with a chassis mounted servo. The bump steer is really bad on that little guy.

There is also new shock towers and panhard mount coming out with the Gatekeeper. The mount is an individual piece and even adjustable. Might be worth a shot.


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[mtbmonkey]

I am stoked to see that there is a discussion on the link front suspension. When a give my Enduro any power, the front right dips down. This drives me nuts. Is there something I can do? Or is this the nature of the 3 link?


Thanks for any comments and replies.

 

[HumboldtEF]

I am stoked to see that there is a discussion on the link front suspension. When a give my Enduro any power, the front right dips down. This drives me nuts. Is there something I can do? Or is this the nature of the 3 link?


Thanks for any comments and replies.

I assume you're talking about the 24th scale Enduro?

You might be seeing torque twist.

Imagine a drag car launching, as it launches the front left corner (usually) of the car will raise as the right side hunkers down.

 

[mtbmonkey]

I am actually referring to my 1/10th Enduro.

 

[HumboldtEF]

Crap, sorry I just realized I was reading part of the post above you.

You can pay around with a thicker shock oil in the rear or adding preload to the right rear shock. How much TT you'll see depends on the gear reduction in the diff, the suspension and the weight of the body.

 

[Phyro]

Would the rotational force of the motor also effect it? Like standard versus flipped transmission.


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[HumboldtEF]

Would the rotational force of the motor also effect it? Like standard versus flipped transmission.


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Yes, If you've ever held a motor and spun it up you'll feel it. Though I think its just the initial moment of startup that does this.

 

[mtbmonkey]

Thank you!