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Hobbywing FOC. Will I regret it?

NunoTT

Newbie
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
11
Location
Portugal
Hi!

I've been looking at getting a brushless motor/ESC combo. I do purely crawling with a 2.2 rig.

I've been looking at the Castle Mamba Micro X2 and Slate combo, but then discovered the Hobbywing Fusion, and I must say, the price is really appealing. But I am on the fence about the FOC system. I've been told that it drives quite a bit differently than a "normal" combo, but I can't find any info on how/where it differs, so I come here for help.
If you have any input on the FOC system, please share.
I'm good at driving around any "handicap" I have, but I fear there's something in the FOC system I'll hate and regret.

Thanks in advance!

Enviado do meu SM-A515F através do Tapatalk
 
the way i understand it is basicly when you give the esc a throtle signal it controls the power to the motor
the foc system you control the rpms of the motor with the throtle instead of the power
for exsample if you set your trim lets say at 10% throtle and it hits a obsticle the foc system will increse the power to the motor automaticly to hold your set rpm
were as a normal esc will stall out if you dont give it more throtle manualy
or to put it another way cruz control on a car you set it at say 60mph then come to a hill the cruz controle automaticly incresses the power so you keep the same speed were as if you were driving without cruze controle you would have to put your foot in to it to keep your speed up

its just a preferance thing the newer escs are kinda a highbred using foc in the lower range then switching to normal operation after a certain point in the powerband
 
I like the Fusion, Pro specifically. I had 5 of them. I am now am down to two, more comp based trucks and running Holmes Crawlmaster Mini V2 esc and their Revolver stubby out runner. Quiet, excellent crawl ability, and lower weight.

With that said, for the price, I love the Fusion Pros. I think in a trail rig or some sort the cheaper SE is a great budget option too.

At this point, if I was going to spend $150 on a Fusion Pro, I can do the Holmes combo for about $200 and do prefer that for the $50ish more.

But if I wanted a cheaper setup, Fusion SE all day long. One of the guys here has it in his comp rig and it does well.
 
If you can, drive a buddy's rig that has a Fusion Pro to see if you'd like it. If you can't, maybe some videos on running footage will help if you haven't done that already. I don't think you'd regret it, but the FOC technology is definitely next level. You can crawl up something so slowly without ever stalling out, I love it lol. I try not to power up or over anything when I crawl so these combos suit me well. I get it though, it's not for everyone but I'd say it's for the majority. As long as you're geared down on the lower side, you should be alright.

If I didn't have a collection of different builds with different setups, probably most of my rigs would have a Fusion Pro!
 
I have tried a few ESCs with FOC or similar system on it and I really like it. You can keep like 10-15% throttle down on the transmitter and basically it just slow crawls up stuff with no change in throttle. I can watch it on my transmitter, just put enough throttle down to get it moving and it will keep that speed unless you adjust it. If you do adjust it, the adjustments are smooth if it is designed right.

I think where people get thrown off by it is the transition from FOC to normal running mode, it can lurch if you aren't careful. If you are also in the habit of adjusting throttle to crawl over stuff slowly and avoid stalling, it is going to take adjustment, but TBH I felt it was really easy to get used to. You don't get any feedback if it is going to stall in that lower throttle range, but it never does, so it doesn't really matter. I think people looking for feedback from the motor and that want to manually adjust throttle wouldn't get along with it.

I have a Fusion Pro and it works really well, the transition off of it is smooth enough that it won't lurch or jump forward unless you make a big mistake. I can gradually add throttle and it is barely obvious when it moves off FOC mode. I'm considering pulling the Castles I have in my trail trucks out and going to this, if anything just for simplicity, but the performance is really impressive IMO. The form factor is nice also, if you take a trip and have an issue with your motor or ESC, you can just yank it out and not worry about carrying a bunch of other stuff, this saved me last weekend when I drove over an hour to crawl and my ESC blew up 10min in, I had this one, tossed it in, then went driving.

The Crawlmaster Mini has something similar and is slightly smoother I feel, but they are difficult to find, you have to be able to solder it yourself, and they aren't weather/waterproof. I think the throttle curve is more sensible on these and it is one of the smoothest ESCs I've used, if you need to hop up on stuff then it's a smooth jump and it can handle 4s. My v1 blew up but I have a v2 here I've played with a bit and it is really smooth. I wouldn't use this in a trail truck though, probably just something for competitions or indoor crawling, it isn't waterproof and the exposed board could be a problem.

Furitek also has a similar system in the Lizard, but the transition from FOC is extremely jumpy. I also found it stalls a lot more. I wrote a little about this in the SCX10 Pro build thread, but overall I wasn't impressed. I tried it with 4 different motors and the only one it was OK on was the Holmes Revolver 540, it stunk on the others and was barely decent with that motor. Some folks have better luck, I think you may need to run their motors to get the best out of it? I'm not sure. I wouldn't recommend it either way, not based on my experiences anyway.

I THINK Silent Assassin has something similar, but could be wrong. He's on hiatus and I haven't been able to get one to try it out.

My only beef with the Fusion Pro is the lack of motor options and it is limited to 3s. The torque and low end on 3s is fine, but if you punch it, it lacks that oomph to get over things that 4s gives you. I think the FOC works really well in it and the amount of control it gives you is really nice.

People will rip me for this but I think Castles have become kindof antiquated compared to newer ESCs, they are great for when they came out and still good for some things, but they need to catch up with newer technology. If they came out with a silent ESC that had FOC, I'd be all over it, but there are better options out right now IMO.
 
People will rip me for this but I think Castles have become kindof antiquated compared to newer ESCs, they are great for when they came out and still good for some things, but they need to catch up with newer technology. If they came out with a silent ESC that had FOC, I'd be all over it, but there are better options out right now IMO.

I wouldn't rip on that opinion at all. Castle hasn't produced a product specifically for the crawler market yet at all, AFAIC. I can get better low end control and stronger drag brake out of a 1080 and a $15 Amazon motor than I can out of a $200+ Castle combo. Hobbywing has left Castle in the dust when in comes to crawler stuff, and hit them pretty hard in the go-fast world as well. I have a MAX6 in one of my rigs and it's been flawless-- and the MAX6 and the Rocket motor I bought cost less than a Monster X on it's own.
 
People will rip me for this but I think Castles have become kindof antiquated compared to newer ESCs, they are great for when they came out and still good for some things, but they need to catch up with newer technology. If they came out with a silent ESC that had FOC, I'd be all over it, but there are better options out right now IMO.

I agree 100%. Just a couple years ago before I learned about the Hobbywing systems, I used and still have the Castle Mamba X/Slate motor combos in a few rigs. Back then I thought that the Mamba X was really smooth and adding a power curve took it to the next level.

Then I tried the Hobbywing Fushion PRO. The Fushion is leaps and bounds better than my Mamba's when it comes to low speed control! The Fushion is so smooth at low speed and has all the power I need if I need more wheel speed.

Just took out one of my rigs with the Castle Mamba X out this past weekend and was instantly disappointed in its performance. From here on out I'll be installing the Fushion PRO's in all of my rigs. My Castle systems are now obsolete!
 
I agree 100%. Just a couple years ago before I learned about the Hobbywing systems, I used and still have the Castle Mamba X/Slate motor combos in a few rigs. Back then I thought that the Mamba X was really smooth and adding a power curve took it to the next level.

Then I tried the Hobbywing Fushion PRO. The Fushion is leaps and bounds better than my Mamba's when it comes to low speed control! The Fushion is so smooth at low speed and has all the power I need if I need more wheel speed.

Just took out one of my rigs with the Castle Mamba X out this past weekend and was instantly disappointed in its performance. From here on out I'll be installing the Fushion PRO's in all of my rigs. My Castle systems are now obsolete!


Add me to this list as well… I had several castle systems, now I have one.

For my use, I get better performance out of a 1080/Crawlmaster sport combo. And the FOC stuff has absolutely ridiculous low speed control. I’m real excited about the fusion se’s, such a great price point for what you get.

The only downside I’ve run into with the HW FOC system is if you let your rig get bound up and don’t realize it. I stretched a couple rod ends on my pro one day letting someone else drive it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Add me to this list as well… I had several castle systems, now I have one.

For my use, I get better performance out of a 1080/Crawlmaster sport combo. And the FOC stuff has absolutely ridiculous low speed control. I’m real excited about the fusion se’s, such a great price point for what you get.

The only downside I’ve run into with the HW FOC system is if you let your rig get bound up and don’t realize it. I stretched a couple rod ends on my pro one day letting someone else drive it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point about getting bound up. Luckily I haven't had that happen...yet!

Yeah, forgot to mention the HW 1080 ESC. Extremely hard to beat for the money. I have these in all of my rigs that are not brushless. And yes, paired with the Crawlmaster Sport is a great combo!
 
Hi!

I've been looking at getting a brushless motor/ESC combo. I do purely crawling with a 2.2 rig.

I've been looking at the Castle Mamba Micro X2 and Slate combo, but then discovered the Hobbywing Fusion, and I must say, the price is really appealing. But I am on the fence about the FOC system. I've been told that it drives quite a bit differently than a "normal" combo, but I can't find any info on how/where it differs, so I come here for help.
If you have any input on the FOC system, please share.
I'm good at driving around any "handicap" I have, but I fear there's something in the FOC system I'll hate and regret.

Thanks in advance!

Enviado do meu SM-A515F através do Tapatalk

I have three different hobby wing fusion set ups, the original 1800 KV, the pro and the new SE. all are great and highly recommend. Try the FOC system, heck - if you don’t like it, it can be turned off using one of their programming boxes.
 
Yeah, forgot to mention the HW 1080 ESC. Extremely hard to beat for the money. I have these in all of my rigs that are not brushless. And yes, paired with the Crawlmaster Sport is a great combo!

Even better with a nice hand wound motor.
 
I currently have a Crawlmaster Magnum Stubby paired with a 1080. I have thought about picking up a BRXL. Other than the potential to run higher voltage, is there any other advantages to the BRXL that makes it worth the money?
 
If you're into driving Scale rigs on the scale side of things, I feel like there is nothing better than a Hobbywing Fusion. That steady low speed control makes for great scale driving. Bonus is the space you save by not having an ESC taking up space on the skid or somewhere you might need clearance for an interior.

It's basically come down to the following for me:

Hobbywing Fusion - My favorite scale trucks + c-channel based scale hard liners.
Hobbywing 1080/Brushed - My basic scale trailing truck combo
Drone ESC/Outrunner - Planned for any flat rail hardliner chassis builds where weight distribution is important.
 
I loved the stock Hobbywing AXE system in my Gen8. Plenty of power, awesome low speed control, plenty of wheel speed when needed and quiet.

I was going to do something different and swapped that system to my sons SCX10'ish truck. Now, he loves it and I have not been able to find something I like as much. I have tried multiple combinations of popular brushed and a couple different popular ESC's. I swapped in a 2700kv Puller Pro, as well as a 1400kv Snubnose Revolver and was not happy with either one of them in the Gen8

Currently, I have a 27t 550 Holmes Hobbies Torquemaster Expert and BR-XL in it. So far, I like it pretty well, but I still am not sure it does as well as the stock Hobbywing setup with FOC.
 
I currently have a Crawlmaster Magnum Stubby paired with a 1080. I have thought about picking up a BRXL. Other than the potential to run higher voltage, is there any other advantages to the BRXL that makes it worth the money?

I like the BRXL for its silent mode (which the 1080 can do too) but it is pretty old tech and not all that different to the 1080. It can do a custom throttle curve. Main draw for me is the 2S-6S rating.
 
Yeah that would be a great combo! I haven't tried that yet, but I can just imagine how smooth that would be!

Obviously, it’ll never have the really slow low speed startup of say my 1800 Fusion (original, not SE), my 2300 Fusion Pro, or my Holmes Crawlmaster Mini V2/1800 Revolver V3. I have 3 rigs with 1080/Holmes Crawlmaster Sports or Trailmaster Sports, and 4 with 1080/Team Brood handwound (all different models) motors. The startup speeds are the same with all of the 1080 escs, but boy those handwound motors are butter smooth through the entire speed range.
I’m mildly interested in the Fusion SE for trailing, especially after seeing one of RC Reviews videos showing the low speed startup difference between the SE and the 2300 Pro. The Pro has a much lower initial startup compared to the SE. My 1800 (not SE) Fusion feels every bit as slow as my Pro, and ALMOST as good as my CM Mini V2/Revolver combo. I’m curious how the low speed startup compares between the Fusion SE and a 1080/brushed. Expecting the SE to be better but I don’t personally own one.
 
I’m mildly interested in the Fusion SE for trailing, especially after seeing one of RC Reviews videos showing the low speed startup difference between the SE and the 2300 Pro. The Pro has a much lower initial startup compared to the SE. My 1800 (not SE) Fusion feels every bit as slow as my Pro, and ALMOST as good as my CM Mini V2/Revolver combo. I’m curious how the low speed startup compares between the Fusion SE and a 1080/brushed. Expecting the SE to be better but I don’t personally own one.

I saw that video also, pretty interesting. I haven't ran the SE yet but it is in a dedicated trail truck so it's in a good home.

But I would love to see that comparison you speak of, Fusion SE vs 1080 brushed. Besides the FOC, I think it'd be a good battle.
 
Which SE vs which 1080? I have one of each, I can make this happen. What kind of motor? 3-slot? 5-slot? Ballpark for turn count?
It's just a ball of variables inside a ball of variables. But I can say that at least anecdotally, a 1080 paired with a Surpass 540+ 20-turn 5-slot 4-pole is really close to a Fusion in terms of startup smoothness, but with less torque, unsurprisingly.
Any "normal" 540 is going to have markedly less torque (or force, however you like to think of it) than a Fusion setup, whether it be legacy, SE, or Pro.
The SE 1200 has easily 95% the startup smoothness of the Pro, while I've always found the SE 1800 to be a bit... rougher.
 
Which SE vs which 1080? I have one of each, I can make this happen.

I say make this happen with different combos of both.:) That will make some good vid content! Perfect terrain in the Canyon to show the performance and capabilities of the combos.

I'm sure Baseline would be more than willing to lend a hand with the testing!;-)
 
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