club liability insurance

[jetboat]

Allot of the parks now have started requiring liability insurance for you to host events... Who is everyone using?

As an indivudual I am covered by my homeowners policy however, they are wanting the club itself to be covered. I contacted the AMA because they offer specialized insurance and they were very helpful in the fact that they offer insurance if you have a club grounds (ex an airfield that also has an rc car race track) but the coverage doesnt extend to the club outside of the grounds unless all members are AMA members. I tried State Farm and they said they might be able to help but it would be under business and might be pricey...they are getting a quote anyway.

and those that think this should be in chit chat...this is a serious thing that clubs are going to face and therefore needs to be in a more serious place.

 

[freetimecrawler]

When I used to promote bicycle tours around the state, we used a special events insurer. We were able to get coverage for event dates only, and not have to pay for coverage when we didn't have an event.
I can't remember the company name, but I can look in my old business records and find it.

 

[K_B]

I'm not sure how it is in other states, but I'm currently getting our club STATE non-profit status (not federal). Getting a state non-profit isn't a huge hassle and not very expensive and it might help you out for getting cheaper insurance...

 

[nomobux]

This whole sue happy world is getting nuts. Car club near here was advised to have a 1 million min coverage for a 2 day rod run. Puts a real strain on small groups just out to have an enjoyable week-end.

 

[dkingston]

This is an excellent topic and one I have quite a bit of history with.

Club and/or individual liability insurance is something that will eventually become a reality in crawling.

There ARE situations where your homeowners insurance will not cover you. Probably the most likely scenario where it wouldn't cover you is if you were charging a lipo pack on the hood of your buddies vehicle and it explodes, causing damage to his car. Neither your homeowners or his auto policy are likely to cover that damage.

Club liability - such as participants or spectators falling on a rock, damage to persons or personal property would be covered by a business policy. But, with clubs not charging to compete or not charging enough to cover the costs of the policy, it is not feasible for clubs to take on that expense.

POSSIBLE COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS:
USRCCA to provide insurance for clubs and club members -
Good solution but the paperwork nightmare would be huge. It would require USRCCA to charge membership fees to club and the individuals who are members, collect dues and keep that information on file. They would have to secure a policy and process any claims. Again, huge undertaking but would be great in the long run.

Join ROAR -
For now, this isn't possible because ROAR doesn't sanction crawling. If they did, clubs could join for $35 per year and all club members (who participate) would have to join for $30 per year in order for the coverage to be in tact. ROAR insurance has worked very well in the past and I know of several circumstances where they paid claims with no question.


Clubs using public or private property to crawl on is liability with an accident waiting to happen. Forming a 501c3 non-profit organization is a start, and one that is a good idea for most clubs to consider. I have assisted several non-profits clubs (R/C, youth sports, etc..) get started and if there is interest here, I could provide more information as to how to get started and what documentation your club would need to maintain to stay legal. It isn't that hard to do and once done, the maintenance is very light.

There are several advantages to forming a non-profit for your club. Probably not as many as in RC racing or sport clubs who routinely purchase goods and services in the course of their endeavors, but the ability to purchase insurance is a good enough reason to consider have one!


- David

 

[dkingston]

p.s. - I was NOT suggesting as a possible solution, joining ROAR in lieu of USRCCA. I was suggesting that ROAR could be a possible source for insurance, period.

 

[Stormin2u]

I would love to see insurance and membership offered by a National affiliation is there one for crawling if not there should be? Your right this is going to be the next big issue.

 

[roborg5000]

p.s. - I was NOT suggesting as a possible solution, joining ROAR in lieu of USRCCA. I was suggesting that ROAR could be a possible source for insurance, period.

I know a club that is looking for insurance :lol:I googled around today for it and came up empty. Besides the ROAR thing and well, thats not a choice for now.

 

[jaxcoffee]

Jason or John?

With two National events under their belt, I would imagine Jason or John (badger) would have some insight.

Ben up at MSD who is putting on the Scale Nationals might be another resource.

John of RCP Tracks might have some information. I know he is up on the copyright thing, so I would think he would know something about this.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Great subject.

 

[Rckcrwlr]

I think the best thing is to insight from some outside the hobby. I will be discussing with my wife who works for a law firm.

Definitely going to be an issue.

 

[wrightcs77]

I am the Chairman of the Minnesota Nitro Series (www.mnnitroseries.com) and I just got insurance for our series thru a local insurance company. It only covers our committee board, because we require each track (all are on private land, no hobby shop tracks) to carry their own insurance. The insurance agent was super nice and covered us under the same type of policy as snowmobile radar runs, motorcycle poker runs and that type of thing.

 

[Ced RC]

Good call starting this post Jeff. Sucks that we must worry about this sort of thing, our legal system gets more jacked up as time goes on. I will talk with some guys I know in local airplane/heli clubs, see what they do for insurance, their events definitely pose more danger than ours :shock:

 

[jason]

Join ROAR -
For now, this isn't possible because ROAR doesn't sanction crawling. If they did, clubs could join for $35 per year and all club members (who participate) would have to join for $30 per year in order for the coverage to be in tact. ROAR insurance has worked very well in the past and I know of several circumstances where they paid claims with no question.

When you join ROAR, and use their insurance I know they will cover each individual, but will they provide you with letters listing the state and federal government agencies as additional insured?

Those are things that are needed for holding events on public property, I am not sure how many events ROAR holds on public property.

As far as how I do it, I purchase the event insurance from my normal insurance provider for my business (RCC). Every permit that has been required of me so far says that I have to carry $1million worth of coverage as a minimum.

 

[Nova's Ark]

The local classic car club I belong to is sanctioned through a national club. I am required to have membership in both clubs ($35 for the national and $25 for the local). When he have meetings with the local club, we are covered under the national clubs policy. It also covers us to have car shows as long as the national club sanctioned it. The local club had to get it's own insurance to hold a car show that was not sanctioned with the national club. It did help that the local club is a registered non-profit club.

That said, a car show at a community college or public park is different compared to the dangers of climbing rock at just any old place. It seems that getting approval to insure comps, under bridges, behind industrial parks, or some other place off the beaten path is going to be much more expensive and harder to acquire. I can easily see an insurance company wanting a comp location that is more user friendly. That would then open the door to require indoor comps similar to what RCP does on the Friday Night Fights. Or force clubs to have comps at a sanctioned facility similar to what ROAR does. No matter what, the day of the sue happy person is here and this sucks to even have to discuss this.

 

[dkingston]

When you join ROAR, and use their insurance I know they will cover each individual, but will they provide you with letters listing the state and federal government agencies as additional insured?

Those are things that are needed for holding events on public property, I am not sure how many events ROAR holds on public property.

As far as how I do it, I purchase the event insurance from my normal insurance provider for my business (RCC). Every permit that has been required of me so far says that I have to carry $1million worth of coverage as a minimum.

Jason, the short answer is yes.

I know for a fact that there are city-owned facilities close to me that utilize ROAR for their primary source of liability insurance. There has never been (to my knowledge) a publically owned piece of land that has refused ROAR's coverage for clubs wanting to utilize them.

The details of your question will be answered tomorrow. I have made an inquiry to get you the specifics answers to your question.

 

[dkingston]

... force clubs to have comps at a sanctioned facility similar to what ROAR does. No matter what, the day of the sue happy person is here and this sucks to even have to discuss this.

Nova, again with Jason's question, I am getting the details of sanctioning crawling spots. With my understanding of the policy, there shouldn't be much problem covering places like under bridges, etc..


- David

 

[Mad Scientist]

What about waivers in leiu of insurance?
Have every competitor sign a waiver releasing the property owner or event coordinators from any liability. It still might be a hassle, but it might be another option.

 

[The Real Dogman]

Very Good subject!! Our Club Uses state and federal at most of our events as well as we are getting more and more minors involved, which brings alot more liability questions. We will be seeking Non-profit status in our state but the federal land is a big question for us. As far as the minors go we try to enforce a rule that no minors can compete unless their parents or guardian is on site. I would love to see he info as it becomes available..

 

[jetboat]

when I spoke with my normal insurance provider they really wanted it to be a perminate location... They werent too keen on the "traveling circus" type events we kind of have. Im going to pursue the nonprofit status , that should at least help a little.

 

[jetboat]

got a quote back from State Farm...

$500,000 or $1m coverage $325 yr... kind of steep on a club that doesnt charge dews