BC-Brian build body or bodiless

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

I would caution the word "good" because more than likely it would be turned away at any national level comp , but.....

if it met the required dimensions it would be hard to say it was illegal by anything other than your perception of the accepted look of the bodiless chassis available....

I think this is a discussion the rules committee should look at.

It would be great to have an official ruling on it. This is a rig I just finished and hope to run it in our Nat's qualifier in April.

 

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

A couple more pictures in case it helps

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

I'll make this easy. You have to be honest and not just try a bend things to get what you want.

Here we go.

What is the difference between a bodied rig and this what you call a bodiless rig.

Now be honest.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

panels, attachment, chassis measurements.


And dumb rules that make the overall dims different.

 

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

I'll make this easy. You have to be honest and not just try a bend things to get what you want.

Here we go.

What is the difference between a bodied rig and this what you call a bodiless rig.

Now be honest.

It meets the bodiless regulations, it is smaller, it is lighter, it is fastened to the chassis, it has body panels, it is not a purchased manufacturers body, and did I mention... it meets all the rules of a bodiless chassis.

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

It meets the bodiless regulations, it is smaller, it is lighter, it is fastened to the chassis, it has body panels, it is not a purchased manufacturers body, and did I mention... it meets all the rules of a bodiless chassis.

Must be a self supporting, structurally complete, rigid frame.

Thats a small body with panels on it. the only frame is under the body. I feel this is way into the gray to where it's looking more black than gray.

 

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Must be a self supporting, structurally complete, rigid frame.

Thats a small body with panels on it. the only frame is under the body. I feel this is way into the gray to where it's looking more black than gray.

It is Self Supporting (see it not cave in on itself).

It is structural complete, it certainly didn't fall apart on the course I ran.

It is Rigid, it can support the weight of the entire rig on its back and not deform. And it is certainly just as rigid as some of the scrawny chassis cabs I have seen.

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

I'll take it to the committee. But don't get your hopes up.

 

[articzap]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Here we go. Someone tries to bend the rules to their favor. More rules get added. More people LOSE interest in crawling.

Maybe its time for bodied and bodiless to share some type of common dimensions.

The way I see it, it's still a body. It's not cab for a bodiless rig. Can the rules be read to make it seem like a legal cab, I guess it can.....

 

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

I am curious to know what the overall ruling of the committee is but have to wonder how you draw the line.

What if I mold it out of Delrin that is .060 thick, and cut out the windows?
And if that is ok then what is the difference if it were .060" thick polycarb, or .030" polycarb... know what I mean?

 

[krawlfreak]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Here we go. Someone tries to bend the rules to their favor. More rules get added. More people LOSE interest in crawling.

Maybe its time for bodied and bodiless to share some type of common dimensions.

The way I see it, it's still a body. It's not cab for a bodiless rig. Can the rules be read to make it seem like a legal cab, I guess it can.....

With that view everyone that tries to think outside of the box will get penalized for being different....
I can't even begin to think he is bending the rules, maybe just applying a little pressure to the norm...
In all fairness,
It seems to have all the listed requirements that are present in the rules...

And there in lies the problem... The way you see it....and the way he sees it...it's all very subjective.

I do agree it is time to make the bodiless and bodied rig specs the same and open up the possibilities..
My question,
Do you think there is any advantage to this over your truck?

I am also curious if the cab portion was made out of carbon fiber or Delrin would you have a different opinion?

 

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

I am also curious if the cab portion was made out of carbon fiber or Delrin would you have a different opinion?

Carbon is an interesting add, could certainly use the mold to drape carbon and pull vac on that.

 

[Erik D_lux]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

It is Self Supporting (see it not cave in on itself).

It is structural complete, it certainly didn't fall apart on the course I ran.

It is Rigid, it can support the weight of the entire rig on its back and not deform. And it is certainly just as rigid as some of the scrawny chassis cabs I have seen.

Just playing devils advocate here.... I dont know where I would stand on the issue. One thought is that it could hold back advancement of chassis????

All the above you stated could also be said about a body that is bolted on using Gunner mounts, no? Add in your responses for a body and they also would apply.

The one thing that separates it in the rules for me is "rigid frame".

What is a frame?

merriam-webster defines it as:
1-
to construct by fitting and uniting the parts of the skeleton of (a structure)

2-
the underlying constructional system or structure that gives shape or strength (as to a building)

So, to me, a stereotypical bodiless chassis would have a skeleton or a dimension to it,... structure, frame.

In my eyes, what you have is a body, skin a facade, but no structure/skeleton.

 

[HARDKNOCKZ]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Yeah...thats a tough one to call at 1st glance. The owners arguments ARE compelling but I have to agree that youre diving off into the deep end of the gray pool.

It may be structurally sound. It may be self supporting but IMO...it is in no way a frame....the same as a quarter panel, hood, roof, deck lid etc is not a frame on a 1:1.

As far as resembling a 1:1...thats just a silly argument these days. I'd LOVE to see a 1:1 crawler with a small block on each axle, drive by wire steering & the cab of a Secret Agent but until they figure out whether or not it would need a BEC...it'll never happen.

Im with Ricky...I wouldn't get your hopes up. Im all for pushing the boundaries & thinkin outside of the box but this to me isn't thinkin outside of the box but rather lookin for a loophole in the written rules & intent of said rules.

J.D.

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Carbon is an interesting add, could certainly use the mold to drape carbon and pull vac on that.

That would be a unibody, which would have the same measurements as a bodied rig. I know you want this ,but you know you are going past the rules on a bodiless rig. You just keep pulling and streching on the rule to make it fit your rig.

To me it's a bodied rig plane and simple. If not this would be legal. If you would be honest with yourself ,you would agree. Everyone knows the intent of the rule.

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Just playing devils advocate here.... I dont know where I would stand on the issue. One thought is that it could hold back advancement of chassis????

All the above you stated could also be said about a body that is bolted on using Gunner mounts, no? Add in your responses for a body and they also would apply.

The one thing that separates it in the rules for me is "rigid frame".

What is a frame?

merriam-webster defines it as:
1-
to construct by fitting and uniting the parts of the skeleton of (a structure)

2-
the underlying constructional system or structure that gives shape or strength (as to a building)

So, to me, a stereotypical bodiless chassis would have a skeleton or a dimension to it,... structure, frame.

In my eyes, what you have is a body, skin a facade, but no structure/skeleton.

I have to agree that youre diving off into the deep end of the gray pool.

It may be structurally sound. It may be self supporting but IMO...it is in no way a frame....the same as a quarter panel, hood, roof, deck lid etc is not a frame on a 1:1.

Im with Ricky...I wouldn't get your hopes up. Im all for pushing the boundaries & thinkin outside of the box but this to me isn't thinkin outside of the box but rather lookin for a loophole in the written rules & intent of said rules.

J.D.

I agree.

 

[BC-Brian]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

So lets say I make it out of .060" delin. Cut out the windows and the sides, zip tie the body panels on... then what?

I spent a bunch of time developing this and if there is a way to alter it to be Nat's legal I want to know.
Where is the line?

 

[binaryterror]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Way to make it legal?

Simple, get a skeletonized frame under the body you have now (basically a legal bodiless chassis under your "body")

Or get a legal body.

I'm all for expanding the rules, but at some point you need to think of Jake Hallenbeck. Most hated foot in RC Crawling when he did a legal move and then people bitched. If you are going to the the wheel that needs the grease, don't expect the world to change for you.

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Where is the line?

Turn around, it's behide you.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Re: Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

Eh, "rock stacking" wasn't legal at the time. It was merely a bad call by the judge that it was a touch instead of course modification, after being primed by the competitor with a leading question.



So we need a "frame". If the cab had windows cut out it would look like a stereotypical frame and there would be no questions. It bolts on, so it would not be unibody- but if it was unibody it follows the same rules as bodiless. But we use "monocoque" frames in daily life all the time where the frame is a stressed skin member. There is nowhere in the rules that define the cab has to be skeleton or monocoque design. Either construction method is equally a "frame" based on the requirement of rigidity.



The rule makers can either make more rules defining "frames", or just unify the body, bodiless, and unibody designs into one sizing requirement. I'm with krawlfreak on this one, there is nothing in the rules that state his cab is illegal. Nothing against vacuum forming parts, nothing against doing a layer construction, nothing that specifies skeleton vs monocoque parts, nothing that specifies pillar requirements.


Here are the important parts

▪ 2.1.5 - Bodiless vehicles: Must be a self-supporting, structurally complete, rigid frame. check The roof must be raised a minimum of 1” from the main chassis to resemble a cockpit. check The frame sides must be an overall minimum of 1” tall (The cockpit & frame side are to be measured vertically from where the hood intersects the cab). check Bodiless vehicles should resemble a 1:1 vehicle. does it better than most bodiless


If you want to argue "intent" about it, we no longer have a set of rules that matter because his cab meets every requirement stated in the rules.