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Wraith trans w/dig in AX10

GRIMGREG

Quarry Creeper
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
496
Location
Ohio
I had a stock AX10 trans with upgraded out drives and a DNA dig unit on it. I wasn't happy with the DNA; it was to big, the servo mount/ shift linkage was wonky, and it all around just gave me fits. I'm running a STRC delrin skid, with 4mm rod ends, which would not clear the DNA case, so I had to grind away some clearance on the case. I got the case paper thin in one spot and it still actually wasn't enough, but enough to somewhat allow the rod end to fit. The other major issue I had was the collar on the shift rod wouldn't stay tight, or stripped out (yes blue locktite used), so I would constantly have to readjust it/ replace it.

I decided the DNA had to go, but had a few options; VP, HR, home made, or Wraith swap. I was looking for a low budget change that had good function. I know people using VP and have complaints about them, so I didn't feel like wasting $100 on another headache. Same goes for the HR, headaches, even though the price is better. As for the homemade, I'm sure I could make one, but didn't have the time to do all the fab required. So now wea are at the Wraith trans; it is basically an AX trans with a built in dig section on the back half of the gear case, and you can buy the case for $10, and the HR dig for it for $40. Then all you need is 1 bearing (for the rear out drive) and you can swap everything fron the AX trans in and be set.

I decided on the Wraith setup, and so far I am very happy with it. I got lucky and found a complete Wraith trans from a kit in RPP's Salvage yard for $11! That ment I got some spare parts (never a bad thing), and the bearing I needed. While I was at it I used some HR aluminum internal gears and new Robinson Racing outside (90/14). The HR dig is (according to some who used the AX one), a really nice setup. It is basically like a socket and nut, with a 6 sided nut that runs on the shaft to lock and engage the dig. That was 1 nice improvement, the outdrive stays put and all the dig function is done without moving it. The Axial version (whenever it becomes available) is a similar design, only using a spline setup.

The best part, it is 3oz lighter! I weighed my old trans with the DNA, then weighed my new Wraith one. The AX trans with DNA was almost 15oz, the Wraith with the HR installed was just over 11oz. The dig case is much smaller; it sticks out 20mm where as the DNA stuck out 30mm, and where as the DNA case follows the contour of the trans case all of that 30mm back, the Wraith tapers in allowing my link/ rod ends to clear. It shifts smoothly without binding to bad, the ends where it engages (on the gear and lock bracket) are tappered to allow it to slip right in (less rollback). The only "alteration" I had to make was move the shift rod to servo linkage from under the shift rod to over so it would clear my rear link mount.

I recommend this swap to anyone wanting to use dig on their AX10."thumbsup"
 
I will put my dig up against an hr dig in a bind contest any day. Hr has no mechanical advantage. if your saying you got a good dig for a good price, so be it, but when it comes to comping rigs and winning comps, it is not the better choice.
 
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I would like to know what the compaints are againts the VP dig. Seems to be the dig of choice for 90% of current builds
 
Seems to be the dig of choice for 90% of current builds

Having only two options available for purchase, are you surprised? Its not like the market is flooded with dig units.

I too would like to know what people would have to complain about the VP unit. Everything I've ever heard has been good.
 
I will put my dig up against an hr dig in a bind contest any day. Hr has no mechanical advantage. if your saying you got a good dig for a good price, so be it, but when it comes to comping rigs and winning comps, it is not the better choice.

When you make one for the Wraith trans, then there would be something to really compare.

Yes the VP seems to be the hands down best for the AX trans add on. If you read, I had a DNA that was a pain, and had heard bad things about the HR for the AX trans. So it was swap to a VP, or try something new. I was actually hoping the Axial dig kit was going to be available for the Wraith trans. by the time I went to build this, and bought the HR because it was available. Yes price was a factor in my choice, and is the reason I don't own any VP parts. Nice stuff, but you're selling BMWs, and I can barely afford a used Chevy.
 
When you make one for the Wraith trans, then there would be something to really compare.

Well there are several hundreds of wraiths running VP digs that i know of so...

We may be working on our new wraith dig housing among-st other things, but thats not for this thread.

If you read, I had a DNA that was a pain, and had heard bad things about the HR for the AX trans

I have on par reading skills,
I know people using VP and have complaints about them,so I didn't feel like wasting $100 on another headache

I understand budgets, If we had no labor laws and could use slave labor, had access to aluminum made with zinc and used car parts and cardboard, and could plate parts in our backyard we could compete.... untill that day we do our best.

my point was not that we are cheaper, it was, i will put my dig up against an HR dig any day.... since it was a performance related comment...

and

We build Chevys, you got a chery
 
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Having only two options available for purchase, are you surprised? Its not like the market is flooded with dig units.

I too would like to know what people would have to complain about the VP unit. Everything I've ever heard has been good.

i may not understand the two options thing but for ax-10 trans there are more than 2 options, hr, dna eritex, rc4wd, vp.... and..well there were the drive shaft digs that some made..
 
I understand budgets, and if we could use slave labor, had no labor laws, had access to aluminum made with zinc and used car parts and cardboard, and could plate parts in our backyard we could compete.... untill that day we do our best.

Every day is a struggle, isn't it?




:ror:




On a serious note, other than what was just mentioned, VP parts are like no other. Hold one in your hand and they just feel awesome. Well worth the $ IMO.
 
i may not understand the two options thing but for ax-10 trans there are more than 2 options, hr, dna eritex, rc4wd, vp.... and..well there were the drive shaft digs that some made..

I forgot about DNA for some reason.

Eritex no longer makes them, so any you find will be second hand. RC4WD doesn't make an AX10 specific dig, and I wasn't counting home-built units.

So that makes 3 options when you buy new. VP, HR, and DNA.

Eritex if you go used and can find one, and the R2D if you want to swap out the whole transmission.
 
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i thought the hr and rc4wd were identical... hmm i wonder

HR makes a "Low COG" transmission that looks somewhat similar to the R2. They also make a bolt on dig for the AX10 trans.

HOTSCP38X01-2.jpg


RC4Z-U0009-2.jpg
 
I still don't know what the complaints are on the VP dig?

Mecahnical advantage allowing for reliable shifting with tiny servos... Check.

Compact dig housing... Check.

Excellent fit & finish... Check.

Multitude of available colors to match your socks too... Check.

Made with high quality materials in the USA... Check.

Product backed by excellent customer service... Check.

$95 for all that seems like a damn good deal.

P.S. I proof read before clicking "submit reply." Only 2 spelling errors! However there are ton of grammar errors and I just don't five a damn.
 
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I still don't know what the complaints are on the VP dig?

Mecahnical advantage allowing for reliable shifting with tiny servos... Check.

Compact dig housing... Check.

Excellent fit & finish... Check.

Multitude of available colors to match your socks too... Check.

Made with high quality materials in the USA... Check.

Product backed by excellent customer service... Check.

$95 for all that seems like a damn good deal.

P.S. I proof read before clicking "submit reply." Only 2 spelling errors! However there are ton of grammar errors and I just don't five a damn.

My complaints are it is expensive by comparison, and didn't appear to preform any better than my DNA. I have never used the VP personally, the comparison of functionality came from a fellow club member of mine who is running a VP.

I know from watching him run how little of a bind negates it being able to shift, which was about as bad as my DNA. Now if you were in my position, would you think the VP was any kind of upgrade, beyond being smaller?

The dig setup used in a Wraith is a different mechanism, and it shifts a lot easier because of that. If VP ever comes out with a Wraith dig, I'm sure it will work better than the HR.

I posted what I did, and why in case there were others either thinking of doing what I did, or didn't even know it could be done. New options are always a good thing. I wasn't telling people to not get VP, or bash them. I will say they do make some nice stuff, but I highly doubt I would ever buy any of it.
 
I have never used the VP personally, the comparison of functionality came from a fellow club member of mine who is running a VP.

So you've formed an opinion based on a single secondhand experience? :roll:

I know from watching him run how little of a bind negates it being able to shift.

How do you know that is the fault of the dig?

Granted, any mechanical dig will not always work perfectly when put in a bind. I don't think that anyone honestly could expect them to.
 
The VP dig differs from the DNA because it has a stationay outdirve (which you think is brilliant)

True it may not have the hex cog design, but apparently their design still works. IIRC the DNA had a 5 puck cog which will engage every 72* of rotation . I think the VP has 3 pucks on the drive cog, but 6 puck pockets on the case, which would have the same 60* of rotation between engagement like the hex design.

The Eritex, which is what I run in my super, also uses the hex drive cog and stationary output. I do wish however, that it had a solid shift arm instead of a delrin slider.
 
My complaints are it is expensive by comparison, and didn't appear to preform any better than my DNA. I have never used the VP personally,

I do not feel it is expensive in comparison. We are offering a lot more than the standard digs. And I am curious, if you break a hr dig, do you have to buy a whole kit to replace the broken part? Seems like that would get expensive quick. Where as I am still running my prototype dig from nearly 4 years ago, All with original parts. I would like to see the hr live up to my testing and longevity. I bet it becomes significantly more expensive to repair over and over. I used our original prototype dig just this weekend at the G6 ran by Parker in my 1.9 adventurist. Quite a few people where shocked how well a dig can perform.


I know from watching him run how little of a bind negates it being able to shift, which was about as bad as my DNA. Now if you were in my position, would you think the VP was any kind of upgrade, beyond being smaller?
I would love to see pictures of this setup of our dig not being able to shift under a bind? Frankly, I dont believe it. When the dig we designed, it was designed to use the worse possible servo. Cause at that time, dna digs needed 100 dollar servos to make them work reliable. I am to this day still using a basic servo I have had for prob 10 years. And it shifts under any load you can put on it. I know there are many others who would back that claim up.


Maybe you should read the original thread.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vanquish-products/186500-vanquish-products-hurtz-shifter-dig.html

When we released this at awcc. Steve our partner offered to pay anyone who could break the dig or not get it to shift under any bind they wanted to induce to it, a 100 dollar prize. No one was able to claim the prize, but I do know it caused more damage to other parts and more money in damage from trying. I think the total, maybe someone can correct me. Was 3 destroyed motors, 2 smoked batteries, and 4? transmissions destroyed in the process.

some quotes from that thread

Dustin gave us a demo on Sunday. He held down his tires and applied torque till the front of his rig lifted of the ground about 45 degrees then engaged dig. No problem!!!! Great job guys. "thumbsup""thumbsup"
I have got to see the dig first hand this weekend at the Vanquish Products shop and at the WCC. All's I can say is that you will not be disapointed. The dig can literally fit inside the DNA dig and your driveshaft does not move when the dig is engaged or disengaged. Do to the geometry you will not have to have a servo that puts out tons of force. Plus with the design the dig engages faster than any other dig I have seen. Again another amazing product from Vanquish.
OMG! I just installed mine in my GC2 chassis and it fits perfectly. Fit and finish is top notch. I did a little testing in the driveway tonight and it shifts like butter. Engages and disengages flawlessly every time.
The dig setup used in a Wraith is a different mechanism, and it shifts a lot easier because of that. If VP ever comes out with a Wraith dig, I'm sure it will work better than the HR.
From what I have seen, the shifting is nearly identical to a dna dig, which you hate?
I do not know what you have seen, since our shifting is completely different than a DNA dig.


I posted what I did, and why in case there were others either thinking of doing what I did, or didn't even know it could be done. New options are always a good thing. I wasn't telling people to not get VP, or bash them. I will say they do make some nice stuff, but I highly doubt I would ever buy any of it.
To be honest, what I have seen you post is a props to hr in 2 seperate rc car forums so far. And a slight bash to our product. With absolutely no proof to back up what you said is wrong with our dig. And to be honest you claimed to see it, then describe it works like a DNA dig, where the HR dig shifts like a DNA dig. So I have to kinda question your motive.

Jim
 
Been thinking of running a dig in my Wraith if I don't do rear steer and after looking at different designs of digs I would be giving my money to vp. May be more money to purchase but I can see why. I would hold off a little to collect the extra cash.

Glad to have a company like vp to give me a product that I am more then happy to buy. Made in USA, made from good materials, good customer support, many choice of colors, good quality control, machine work looks great and the stuff works.
That's my $.02!

Everyone has a choice what they want to run and if your happy great


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