welding vs brasing

[thumper68]

I spent quite a bit of time reading through this today and was just wondering why more of you aren't tig welding frames, chassies and cages

it looks better in my opinion, you can then finish the welds if needed and it looks more like a 1:1

not flameing just wondering :mrgreen:

 

[Nor*CalDefender]

TIG welders are not as cheap as a torch setup!"thumbsup"

 

[thumper68]

TIG welders are not as cheap as a torch setup!"thumbsup"

well thats true, and there is a learning curve to useing them that is higher then a torch.

I just didn't see any mention of tig in any posts. :shock:

 

[1BadJeepBruiser]

I braze all my tube work, comes out looking cleaner, less cleaning up (no grinding needed). I also don't really know how to weld, nor do I have my own welder. This is probably the case for most. a welder is a lot more $ then a MAPP torch and some silver solder

 

[pardonmyn00b]

Because these aren't real trucks. For most people brazing gets the job done. Plus it's cheaper and easier.

 

[ultimate_monkey]

cost is a biiiiiiiiiiiig thing , torch set up - coupld hundred bucks, decent tig (aka a name brand that wont eat shit after a year) atleast 2500. a good braze joint is plentry strong and the tube will bend long befor the joint lets go,

 

[thumper68]

i see that cost seems to be the main issue.

 

[rangerboy]

its not even coast being the issue. its thin metal you need talent to tig weld it cuzz you will blow right on through it lol i have tig. mig arc, braze and i would rather braze tubing it flows out for nice smooth joints and its actually melts in to the tube metal its not like solder you can get the cheep braz kit for like 50 bucks mapp and oxygen kit work fine, hope that helps the braze is way more user friendly"thumbsup"

 

[ultimate_monkey]

umm brazing doesnt melt into the tube, for that to happen you would have to melt the base metal (the tube) then it would be welding not brazing, brazing is a surface bond with no penitration into the base metal

 

[Frankenwheely]

It is some what of a money issue, unless you are a welder and use it often... thank the maker I have a friend that has one. He has earned many a beer from me.:mrgreen:

 

[rangerboy]

bull sshit its not! it mends in it mixes the surface material hey. try and experiment purposely do a tinsel break on the and see if the braze breaks or the metal this is a type of fusion welding my friend here read this



1 BRAZE WELDING Up to this point, we have been talking about the fusion welding of carbon steel, and in the chapters immediately following this, we shall talk about the fusion welding of cast iron, of stainless steel, and of non-ferrous metals. In fusion welding, the filler rod always has a melting point approximately the same as the melting point of the metal to be joined, and both the filler metal and the base metal are actually melted and fused together. Braze welding is a process of almost equal importance to the user of an oxy- acetylene welding outfit. It closely resembles fusion welding in several important respects. It is used to produce joints of excellent strength in steel, in cast iron, and in copper and some copper alloys. However, in braze welding, the filler metal always has a melting point well below the melting point of the base metal, and the base metal is never melted. Years ago, the process we now term ”braze welding” was commonly known as ”bronze-welding”. Ever since the process was renamed ”braze welding”, there has existed a degree of confusion between the terms ”brazing” and ”braze welding”. The American Welding Society definitions for ”brazing” and ”braze welding” both stipulate that the filler metal must have a melting point above 4250C (8000F). However, the definitions state that in brazing the filler metal is drawn into a tight-fitting joint by capillary attraction; in braze welding the filler metal is deposited in the joint by other than capillary attraction. We shall talk about the use of the flame in brazing operations in another chapter. The basis for the braze welding process is that both brass and bronze* will flow onto properly prepared surfaces of higher-melting-point metals or alloys to form a bond or molecular union which has excellent strength. The base metal is never melted. It is merely raised to the temperature at which the filler metal will tin – form a smooth film – on the surface of the joint. Although the temperatures involved are much lower than those required for the fusion welding of steel, braze welding is primarily an oxy-acetylene process. The intense heat of the oxy-acetylene flame quickly raises the base metal to the proper temperature for tinning. The welder can control every variable factor involved: the temperature of the base metal, the melting of the filler rod, and the condition (neutral or slightly oxidizing) of the flame.

its nothing like soldering you are reaching its melting point in which you can melt it with a non blow torch . its brought to a temp that allows it to mend together don't say shit that's not true!

also its not worth doing a TIG weld on the brake line.... come on dude its just not piratical..haha lol ok i would like to see you take a brake line project to a welding shop lol they will laugh at you when you tell them to tig weld it lol im a welder don't start lol

umm brazing doesnt melt into the tube, for that to happen you would have to melt the base metal (the tube) then it would be welding not brazing, brazing is a surface bond with no penitration into the base metal

 

[rangerboy]

o what does fusion mean?"thumbsup" dude original poster braze is awesome "thumbsup"

 

[Positronic]

my dad has a tig, mig and arc in the shed but I prefer to braze, the joints are cleaner, it's more than strong and is just easier to light up the torch and go.

my bumpers soldered, rear bumpers brazed, truss is mig'd and sliders one side is tigged, the other is brazed "thumbsup".

just use what you got "thumbsup"

 

[dougman51]

Rangerboy,

the brazing that these guys do IS NOT braze welding,

tha definition of brazing is:

"Brazing is a metal-joining process whereby a filler metal or alloy is heated to melting temperature above 450 °C (840 °F) and distributed between two or more close-fitting parts by capillary action. The filler metal is brought slightly above its melting (liquidus) temperature while protected by a suitable atmosphere or flux. It then interacts with a thin layer of the base metal (known as wetting) and is then cooled rapidly to form a sealed joint. By definition, the melting temperature of the braze alloy is lower (sometimes substantially) than the melting temperature of the materials being joined. Brazed joints are generally stronger than the individual filler metals used due to the geometry of the joint as well as to the metallurgical bonding that occurs."


so it is actually quite similar to soldering, but at a higher temp range

 

[toybuilder]

I spent quite a bit of time reading through this today and was just wondering why more of you aren't tig welding frames, chassies and cages

it looks better in my opinion, you can then finish the welds if needed and it looks more like a 1:1

not flameing just wondering :mrgreen:

I have a smaller air cooled 125 amp TIG torch and I find it difficult if not impossible to get the head of the torch into position to weld most of the joints on small 1/10 scale cages, frames, etc. It's usually way easier to braze it.

 

[Slowkrawl]

bull sshit its not! it mends in it mixes the surface material hey. try and experiment purposely do a tinsel break on the and see if the braze breaks or the metal this is a type of fusion welding my friend here read this



1 BRAZE WELDING Up to this point, we have been talking about the fusion welding of carbon steel, and in the chapters immediately following this, we shall talk about the fusion welding of cast iron, of stainless steel, and of non-ferrous metals. In fusion welding, the filler rod always has a melting point approximately the same as the melting point of the metal to be joined, and both the filler metal and the base metal are actually melted and fused together. Braze welding is a process of almost equal importance to the user of an oxy- acetylene welding outfit. It closely resembles fusion welding in several important respects. It is used to produce joints of excellent strength in steel, in cast iron, and in copper and some copper alloys. However, in braze welding, the filler metal always has a melting point well below the melting point of the base metal, and the base metal is never melted. Years ago, the process we now term ”braze welding” was commonly known as ”bronze-welding”. Ever since the process was renamed ”braze welding”, there has existed a degree of confusion between the terms ”brazing” and ”braze welding”. The American Welding Society definitions for ”brazing” and ”braze welding” both stipulate that the filler metal must have a melting point above 4250C (8000F). However, the definitions state that in brazing the filler metal is drawn into a tight-fitting joint by capillary attraction; in braze welding the filler metal is deposited in the joint by other than capillary attraction. We shall talk about the use of the flame in brazing operations in another chapter. The basis for the braze welding process is that both brass and bronze* will flow onto properly prepared surfaces of higher-melting-point metals or alloys to form a bond or molecular union which has excellent strength. The base metal is never melted. It is merely raised to the temperature at which the filler metal will tin – form a smooth film – on the surface of the joint. Although the temperatures involved are much lower than those required for the fusion welding of steel, braze welding is primarily an oxy-acetylene process. The intense heat of the oxy-acetylene flame quickly raises the base metal to the proper temperature for tinning. The welder can control every variable factor involved: the temperature of the base metal, the melting of the filler rod, and the condition (neutral or slightly oxidizing) of the flame.

its nothing like soldering you are reaching its melting point in which you can melt it with a non blow torch . its brought to a temp that allows it to mend together don't say shit that's not true!

also its not worth doing a TIG weld on the brake line.... come on dude its just not piratical..haha lol ok i would like to see you take a brake line project to a welding shop lol they will laugh at you when you tell them to tig weld it lol im a welder don't start lol

Ok, you pissed me off. I sense you are by no means a welder, and have no fuking idea what you are talking about, other than what wikipedia tells you. THERE IS ABSOULTELY NO PENETRATION WITH BRAZING OR BRAZE WELDING. Brazing is strictly a surface bond, whereas braze welding is hot enough(above 660 degrees if I remember right) to open the pores of the steel and allow the braze to flow in.


If you have no idea what you are talking about, don't call us retards.

Penetration is the parent and filler metal MIXING, not laying on top of eachother.

It's a good thing I can't swear on here, it's a pet peeve of mine when these guys that aren't welders or have no knowledge of it start flapping their gums.

 

[Slowkrawl]

As far as welding vs. brazing, tig would be nice to tack the tube up, but brazing leaves a nice clean joint.

 

[minisaba]

I find those picture very offensive... Who here doesn't think that this guys in the picture didn't enjoy taking their pictures. Stop posting pictures that are going to get you in trouble.:evil:

 

[country_crawler]

I find those picture very offensive... Who here doesn't think that this guys in the picture didn't enjoy taking their pictures. Stop posting pictures that are going to get you in trouble.:evil:

x2! Those pictures offended me also.

 

[Robbob]

as much as id love to learn how to weld i dont think my landlord would approve of a cylinder filled with gas in my basement :-(

brazing is the easiest and most convenient for me at this time. "thumbsup"