Soldering iron Wattage/temp

[pkfab1]

Can someone answer a question? I just bought a new soldering station from X-tronic. 75w. It’s the 3020xts. It’s replacing my old Weller 40w station. My question is my weller claims 900 degrees and my new one claims 896 degrees. Am I missing something? 40w is 900 and 75w is 896? I’m confused*

 

[JatoTheRipper]

Claims are often exaggerated. And the important thing about irons with more wattage is that they are able to heat up faster and sustain the temperatures much better and more consistently than lower wattage irons. I wouldn't sweat numbers. Try it and see how it works.

 

[pkfab1]

Claims are often exaggerated. And the important thing about irons with more wattage is that they are able to heat up faster and sustain the temperatures much better and more consistently than lower wattage irons. I wouldn't sweat numbers. Try it and see how it works.

Thanks man. I usually don’t sweat numbers but I wanted to almost double my irons ability and not get cold joints. Plus my Weller got the parts so hot before the solder melted so that’s why I was sweating the temp claims. Lol

 

[robert@castle]

The cause of cold solder joints isn't the max temperature of an iron, but how well it changes temperature and recovers from a drop in temperature. The irons like the Weller are just passive heaters, they just dump their wattage into the tip at all times. Irons like the one you bought have digital control that allows the iron to only use the power it needs to maintain the temperature. When you touch the tip of an iron to a cold board or wire it pulls the heat out of the tip and cools it down. The digital controlled ones are able to see that drop in temperature and push more power into the tip so that it recovers to the target point faster. It'll use the full 75 watts when heating up, but normally will only be using 20 or 30 watts to maintain the temperature.

I don't know that specific iron, but I'm fairly confident you'll get better solder joints and find soldering easier. You'll also never need to run it anywhere near it's max temperature. I have a similar style iron from SparkFun and I run it at ~60% max power. Just hot enough to melt the solder but not so hot that I burn the board or any components.

 

[Greatscott]

Yup, more wattage holds the irons temperature.

Take your 40w iron, tin it, then try to tin a 12 gage wire. The first thing you will see is the tinned solder on the iron will actually go solid for a second, the iron is transferring that energy into the 12 gage wire. After a couple of seconds the solder goes molten again, and the wire gets hot enough to wick the solder. The problem with this is in that time when the iron is heating back up, your are putting excess heat into the 12 gage wire, which will cause solder to wick up under the insulation, where you don't want it. This is also true for connecting wires to any electronics, the longer you have contact with the iron and work, the more heat you'll transfer. Heat is the necessary evil of soldering, but is in no way your friend, so you want to put as little heat into your work as possible. Your new 75w iron should transfer the heat to that 12 gage wire very quickly, while keeping itself hot enough to keep the solder on it molten, when means the wire will wick the new solder a lot quicker, allowing you to remove the heat a lot faster, avoiding wicking up the wire.

 

[pkfab1]

Thank you guys for the detailed info. Helped me a ton. I understand the differences now. You guys are great!

 

[pkfab1]

https://xtronicusa.com/X-Tronic-Model-3020-XTS-LED-Display-Soldering-Station-p74220205

This is the unit I bought.

 

[Voodoobrew]

Now I want one, any one know if the tips stay on good and tight on this unit?

 

[odomandr]

I've been using this one that was given to me a few years ago. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MCVCHJM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That one looks priced well and could be a good upgrade from the one I have

 

[mprudic0404]

xtronics are mighty fine for the price. ive had a few, ended up with the multi unit. with that iron(web link) and what you intended to use it for, pick up some hakko tips. xtronic seems to overrate their equ, but not in crazy fashion.
Weller makes good irons, even the old equip is good quality. The old weller you speak of, if its not meeting your job duties, try alternitive tips. whats the fattest tip you can find for your old weller?

The xtronic Tips and elements are rubbish. (ive wasted more on these than i care to admit) I am using hakko as an example and these are worth every penny, but for most intended users seem unessassary. (hakko is fine for labs and workshops)

xtronic customer service is nice and actualy fast. (fill out your warnenty card!!)

not certain about ALL xtronics, but it does seem that they prefer to share a common element(heat coil) that happens to be the EXACT specs as a hakko one. (see pictures)

depending on what you will use this for, i ask you to consider picking up a mammi-jammi iron (sorry still on nicknames ,service/repair labs call tools nicknames) 80-100watt. these are usualy cheap and some home depo-ish stores carry them for 20-30bucks. The reason to even mention these beasts, is that some connectors (deans,@mm bullet, scrc cells,ESC'S,copper door fingers, etc...) "suck" pull heat so fast that regulated irons struggle to keep up. A 800.00$ hakko will still fail at soldering compared to a massive 100+watt mega iron on big thermal suck items.

The iron you got is excellent and a Great pick. The heat you use "dial range" should be based on your solder type. Are you soldering NEW parts? are you soldering and re-flowing existing parts? ROHS? Nasa spec soldering? general rule, dont go much above 765F temps (even this is upper limit). lead free solder is hotter but dosent like it burning.
Very few equpiment/ parts being made since late 2000's is lead solder. almost everything you repair, re-flow, will be leadfree solder. lead free solder always looks semi-matt and semi cold when when done. (nature of rohs solder) compared to the old lead solder. If you happen to mix the two types of solder, it will work but not well, and they "attack" slowly breakdown each other. Use a magnifiying glass to examine the solder work before and after to check appearances and poor joints. this will also help ID what kind of solder you need too(leaded or lead free). a cheapie mag glass can be had for 2-3 bucks (shipped) on the ebay. solder types and make up could be a whole thread so not going there)

never mix your iron tips. keep one set of iron tips for each type of solder you use.
ALWAYS turn off your iron and then melt a bunch of solder on the tip as its cooling. this is CRITICAL to protect and extend its life. I will even add that when your iron is cooled, it should have a cold tip of solder about to drip off. this is VERY important for two reasons- 1 keeps the tip primed and ready for next use/heat up, 2 prevents oxidized destruction of the tip as to maintain a flat and smooth surface when not in use. (ever have a iron tip that seems to devolop holes or starts missing the side?) Never put away a dry/clean (no solder) iron. (good to remove flux crust-{scag?} burnt on, but not solder after cooling)

Solder flux or paste is a whole another topic, so ill keep that simple, and just say, grab a small bottle of flux or paste.(look at your solder wire and google fluxes) (i like the liquid old school rosin/fluxes) alcohol or rc motor cleaner work perfect to clean off your connections/joints after they cool.

i am sorry to have gone overboard on the info, i happen to love soldering. At one time i was even ceritified In mutiple classes. (new work, re-work,surface mount,nasa-spec,pool, exotic metal solder,etc..)


Again, Nice pick on the iron, and congrats! A regulated iron is a key element to perfect work.


NOTE: peronal rule or recomendation- 25-65 watts for small to 16awg, 14-10awg 100watt+ iron. This note is based off of time(dwell) and heat transfer of iron to work surface. The longer you heat wire, the more likley the solder will "chase" into the un-trimmed (unstripped) sections, which creates a stress point for failure. Idealy we would only want solder on the section of wire stripped, but lower wattages take longer to heat and with this longer heat time causes more "solder suck" wick of the wire( nautical crafts prefer no solder joints or connections for this reason ) its possible to crank up a smaller (lower wattage iron) iron and get excellent results, but this is a not so easy to explain process, and will toast your iron tips in no time. (This can ruin solder if not performed fast)

(i am also including a good item thats cheap and helps keep your tips perfect when needed, see pics. the cleaners are a few dollars shipped and worth every cent. try fasttech- as i got the pic one for 1.99$ shipped) (magnets attached to mine, keep it from sliding)


pics explained-----


dremmel with cutoff wheel and drill- if you pick up some iron tips and they are too long, this is a easy way to grind them down even, so they fit correctly. the irons's element should touch the bottom of the tip. any gaps or space and you wont have a accurate tool.(dont remove too much or you can crack element)

The elements and iron handle. Ive found that xtronic is the same as a hakko heater element( think this is a 6 wire?) with one critical note. Xtronics elements are a fraction smaller than the hakkos. To me, this was a critical point of thermal contact and very important to wattage/temps. Hakko is a just a hair bigger which sits almost flush against the iron tips. xtronics gap at this same point seems to really effect heat transfer and feels loose if you put any force on iron tip. (not recomended unless your into replacing the elements often-which requires a soldering iron!!! how ironic!!)

random solder spools, depending on work. (and aparently KARR made the pic too hah)


80watt weller. this beast is often overlooked and considered trashy by many because of its -balls to the wall heat style with no regulation-(seems to run about 865F). Yet this is My fav for heavy wire and large points. easy to use, hard to master. Its a dance when used, as it requires a fast clean, wet sponge and then quick tin. any delay or slow step and its a do-over.

station- so far so good. The heat gun/re-flow tool is quite nice, but a tad off of its dialed value. the dc supply is amazing in its acuracy, and this is compared to a calibrated fluke and professional workstation dc supply.

 

[mprudic0404]

Can someone answer a question? I just bought a new soldering station from X-tronic. 75w. It’s the 3020xts. It’s replacing my old Weller 40w station. My question is my weller claims 900 degrees and my new one claims 896 degrees. Am I missing something? 40w is 900 and 75w is 896? I’m confused[emoji1750]*[emoji3603]

If you are in need of a cordless iron, for racing for auto's and such. try to find the style from the pic below. I have tried almost every type of cordless iron out and this 20$ one stands above all. granted its a little fussy and cheap, it still leaves most cordless in the dust. their is a few excpetions that are better but you could buy 10 of these or more and at that price, no dice. (one of my old jobs, work expensed any equipment needed, so i always tried all kinds of cordless irons- as i couldnt use electric in high magnetic fields)

ALWAYS wear saftey glasses, as any gas iron can and will fail... and eyebrows take forever to grow back!!!

 

[mprudic0404]

unrelated but i do have a targeted question for ya.(related to soldering lol)

why does it seem like CASTLE is down-frown on ANDERSON POWER POLE connectors?

I understand the(castle) has its own connectors and such, but i never understood the dislike of powerpoles.
the world of high current connections and plugs is a pandorix box, and not going into that void, but still Of all connectors used in RC hobby, crimp type has the best specs for our uses. (crimp connectors are favored in high stress /high vibration enviroments)

The cause of cold solder joints isn't the max temperature of an iron, but how well it changes temperature and recovers from a drop in temperature. The irons like the Weller are just passive heaters, they just dump their wattage into the tip at all times. Irons like the one you bought have digital control that allows the iron to only use the power it needs to maintain the temperature. When you touch the tip of an iron to a cold board or wire it pulls the heat out of the tip and cools it down. The digital controlled ones are able to see that drop in temperature and push more power into the tip so that it recovers to the target point faster. It'll use the full 75 watts when heating up, but normally will only be using 20 or 30 watts to maintain the temperature.

I don't know that specific iron, but I'm fairly confident you'll get better solder joints and find soldering easier. You'll also never need to run it anywhere near it's max temperature. I have a similar style iron from SparkFun and I run it at ~60% max power. Just hot enough to melt the solder but not so hot that I burn the board or any components.

 

[robert@castle]

unrelated but i do have a targeted question for ya.(related to soldering lol)

why does it seem like CASTLE is down-frown on ANDERSON POWER POLE connectors?

I understand the(castle) has its own connectors and such, but i never understood the dislike of powerpoles.
the world of high current connections and plugs is a pandorix box, and not going into that void, but still Of all connectors used in RC hobby, crimp type has the best specs for our uses. (crimp connectors are favored in high stress /high vibration enviroments)

Standard automotive wire is always crimped, but the wire used in RC applications doesn't respond well to being crimped. Automotive wire has PVC insulation and only a few hundred strands per wire. RC wire has silicone insulation and several thousand stands per wire. The silicone insulation will rip when crimped on, where as the PVC insulation will grip and prevent the connector from sliding off the wire. Also the high strand count makes the strands more likely to break when crimped. The power demand for wires that are crimped in automotive applications is generally pretty low so it doesn't affect the performance of the connection. The extremely high strand count provides proper mitigation for the vibrations found in R/C applications.


We use powerpoles on test fixtures in our production lines because they are nice modular connectors that are easy to plug and unplug, but we solder them instead of crimping.

 

[mprudic0404]

hmm, not sure where to start on this...
i am a car guy as its a long time passion so this area i know quite well.

Automotive cables and connections are crimped/crushed for many reasons, but number one is assembly. A properly crimped connection actually creates a metal-metal colloidal bond at the surface between the wire and the terminal, and if done right, no gas remains between the surfaces. This ensures longevity and safety, making this the preferred mechanism in most implementations. The insulation (not much pvc) used in modern cars is quite the wild blend of modern science. PVC isnt common anymore unless your restoring/repairng a car with store bought wire. (google subaru, toyota,volvo,etc and animials- they like to eat the wire insulation due to its Evo-safe organics) A modern car connector relies on a crimped conductor AND the insulation for strength and flex. where as older models strength was mostly relied apon the outter PVC. (ever restore a classic car, and try to strip the wires)

Not real sure about the low amp rating or power rating of automotive connections only because Of all the electrical connections in this world, the ones found on any car endure some of the harshest conditions ,not found anywhere else. High heat, super colds, dust, dirt, water,salt, etc, and still have to carry quite a hefty about of power. (sorry kia) A new base kia still uses traditional bulbs as an example and these can load up 20 amps constant at 12vdc, even with the outside world fighting to destroy it. Another part, I have never seen a car battery terminal that was solderd (might be some?), and that targeted connection can carry massive amounts of current. Every car I have ever worked on was a crimp/crush battery lead, then same at starter solinoid(these carry hundreds of amps and can go higher on bigger motors).

I really happen to love soldering, and have been doing so, way before kids should handle such things, but all that i love still takes a backseat to a proper crimp. Granted most people may or may not be using the correct tools for this job, but when the dies are within specs and correct forces are used, its one of the best connections possible. (too much force causes what you refrenced with broken strands, and too little is even more trouble to note)

Solder is still a favorite of mine nevertheless and its a tough skill to master, but easy to pick up. The best example i can give that supports this is from a LHS. (no names for respect)

I went into a shop and was looking for titanium pins that may fit a project. The owner behind the counter was very helpful and assisted me. When i was paying She paused, (owner)pointed to my 1/8 buggy and said: "look at that, you dont have enough solder on your motor leads"
old enough to know some folks dont take kindly to mistakes, I inquired more, and got the whole deal about soldering and how it SHOULD look. I kindly asked her, may i see yours? She pulled a monster truck out from behind the wall, the likes of which ive never seen. As she was showing me how she soldered her motor, (it did appear excellent visualy) i asked if she had a knife so i may cut open my motor wires. This is the moment of puzzled looks and weird faces, but she stared in total focus as i sliced my solderd motor leads. I had just peeled the last wire (silicone) insulation off as she grabed the knife and cut her motor leads. To her suprise, her solder had chased (wick) almost a half inch into the insulation while mine was limited to just the motor. Then the explaining starts and so fourth.
The wick effect (solder sucked into the coverd wire) causes a non-flex joint thats hidden from the user. Its this non-flex location where 1000+ stand wire can become much less , as certain layers are subjected to higher forces and bends then orginaly meant for.

I still love soldering, and its a excellent method for contact, it just has limitations.

The RC industry uses high strand count silicone wire for many reasons. If we were ONLY going maximum speed 100% of the time, solid wire would be preferred as it has the largest ampacity for pure DC. RC is not PURE dc, as the ESC and related equipment, is all ^switching type of vararity. Constant peaks of high current followed by smaller dwells of lower ripple current. If castle has a network analyzer, try watching the battery leads to see what im speaking of. As the battery of a rc car is unloading power, its a wild ride of dc flux currents. Not sure how much the SKIN effect plays into the wire for our hobby, but it does. The better grades of RC wire has 1000's of strands of micro fine wires, coated in super fine silver (best conductor possible) sealed in silicone for its flexiablity (flex inside and outside) and to prevent the silver from oxidizing. These cars/trucks/all kinds of RC, have vibration and stress that would quickly destroy low-strand/solid wire.
Modern RC wire also happens to have a small (measurable) capacitance effect due to the switchable nature of our ESC in combination with 1000's of strands of surface area. Not sure this even effects us at all, but PURE DC loads would have none. final note, A proper crimp will capture and mesh these(1000's stands) into one sealed contact, held by its counterparts around it, not broken strands. A incorrect die or too much force will void the crimp, but if ones going to spend 1000's of dollars in a hobby, i would hope a high grade, proper crimp die / tool is part of that.

Its nice to to hear that castle uses power poles for assembly work, and i am not saying any one targeted connector is better than another, its all personal needs/choice. Of all the work expeiences i have ever had (jobs) electronics and RF were always on the edge of science. Sometimes that day to day moment is forgotten in the chaos of work, only looking back can we see how much was gained. I am thankful the opertunities in life. I always found humor at an old job when the repair techs (a few-previous employers-ago) would try to solder connections that should have been crimped, because it would pass their bench tests, but not out in the field under loads. thankfully the service group kept us stocked with connectors.

Castle makes some good products, and i just want to say thank you. (really like the monster x)
PS: the built in board mount/bullet connectors on the esc are great, Its wonderful to terminate a wire without fear of heating up or damaging the esc.