Motor Decisions. ....

[theTman]

The stock motor in my bomber is finally dying. This is my setup for reference

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=565144&share_fid=19420&share_type=t

I was going to go for another brushed motor, but I am debating a brushless motor now. If I go brushless it would be the trailmaster.

I have an original mamba max esc. Hardly saw more than a few hours on brushless when I was a kid before I got bored of high speed bashing and made my first crawler. I kept the white 3rd lead intact while I ran a 55t integy lathe motor in it. Didn't put too many hours on it, then spent about 5 or 6 years on a shelf.

I think it can still handle brushless power. Been running 3s through it in my bomber while sealed in a balloon and it never gets hot.

No way I can get a new holmes brushless esc before christmas Lol, but might be able to talk the wife up from 50 dollar holmes expert brushed motors to the trailmaster.

I have 2 questions :
First, does the dragbrake on brushless motors still suck majorily?

Second, can my bomber handle that kind of power? I can't gear down any further without having an easily stipped 9t pinion, or a 68t spur that won't fit in the cover. I still can go slow in low, just don't want to be out of control in high gear.

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[JohnRobHolmes]

You will want a sensored ESC. Brushless won't be so good sensorless.


Brushless drag is stronger than brushed, but the control from zero rpm into rolling is not as precise. On throttle, brushless will coast more when pointing downhill. The TrailMaster is far better than other 2 pole options though.


The bomber will handle brushless no problem. If you want more crawling speed, around 2200kv is great.


My personal favorite brushed motor is a 13t CrawlMaster.

 

[theTman]

So, the third white wire isn't a sensor wire, just more power? I guess I will go for a nice brushed. This bomber is not doing any comp crawling. Mostly g6 style trail runs, and taking it hiking with me. I would prefer not to have a motor that eats brushes within a matter of matter of hours unless there isn't much of a choice other than lame performance.

I haven't gotten to weigh my rig, but from the weight of the add ons and the stock weight I can guesstimate 8 to 9 lbs, and I have some JEC SST Twin hammers length trailing arms and matching uppers in the works that will add even more weight. I run a 4000 mah, 20C 3S lipo fyi.

I have been debating between a 13t crawlmaster, or a 27, 30, or 35t torquemaster when it comes to brushed motors.

Also, what benefits do hand wound motors provide?

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[WHITE-TRASH]

The white wire is another power wire that only brushless motor utilize.

For what you describe a cheaper 4 pole non sensored motor around 3000kv would work out fine. It won't crawl but moderate throttle input is pretty smooth. The bonus is its a cheap option. :lol:


The 13 turn motor is a solid performer too as brushed motors go. It will put up with a lot of abuse and keep on kicking. :mrgreen:

 

[theTman]

A lot of places I take my crawler hiking have quite a bit of rock to crawl, and I just like drag brake. I swapped out the stock esc for my ancient mamba max because even at stock weight with the full drag brake set it didn't hold worth crap.

Debating now between a 27t or 30 turn torquemaster, or a 13t crawlmaster. Do they have comperable run times? What about brush wear?

Also wondering if hand wound motors tend to live longer, get more run time, and/or wear brushes slower. Need some selling points that save money long term to talk the wife into letting me go for a hand wound.

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[WHITE-TRASH]

If you want serious drag brake then get a motor with some crazy magnets. I'm running a brood axle buster with neo magnets and it holds back on any angle even with the battery unplugged. :lol:


Brushes are cheap and a consumable item anyway so grab a few sets when you order a motor. I've never had a decent crawler motor eat up brushes in under a week of running so you'll be fine.

 

[theTman]

I had read somewhere on here that a 27t torquemaster eats brushes within 6 hours of run time, while the same guy's 35t had brushes with more than one season under their belt. That is what made me concerned about brushes. Rather not yank the motor every 6 hours.

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[WHITE-TRASH]

Improper gearing will eat brushes. Gear it right and they'll last for a long while. My motor is on 4s at all times and I run more than 6 hours a week without brush issues.

 

[theTman]

Decided against a hand wound motor. Isn't worth the cost, and I would rather spend the extra 50$ on other upgrades.

Did some math, and my final gear ratio for my front axle is 33.67:1 in high gear, and 78.79:1 in low gear. My rear is under driven and I didn't bother calculating it.

I think a 13t crawlmaster, or 27t torquemaster are the 2 I have it narrowed down to. It sounds like the CM has better low end control and speed, while the TM has more torque. Is that correct?

With the crazy reduction and my old reliable mamba max I could get what I felt was a fairly smooth low end in low gear, though maybe a CM is a whole other level of smooth that I didn't know existed.

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[JohnRobHolmes]

Correct on the motor assumptions. TM makes more torque, plows through stuff a bit stronger. CM is much smoother, regulation and finesse of speed makes it my first choice.

 

[theTman]

Does one burn brushes faster than the other? If so, is it a significant amount? Also, I can see my rig getting over 10 lbs. Not sure if I want more torque for that. Is the torque all that much greater with the torquemaster vs the crawlmaster? If it is only a bit more then I'd say the crawlmaster's upsides outweigh the lower torque.

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[allanon1965]

if you are crawling at all, go with the crawlmaster...my 27t torquemaster doesnt quite have the low end resolution or smoothness that my 13t crawlmaster does... you wont regret the crawlmaster....

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

Crawlmaster wears brushes slower. I have one in a 13lb rig. At crawling speeds and use I get 30 to 40 hours of brush life. If I were to run it through grass full blast nonstop they might wear out in an hour. It's tough to predict your terrain and driving style.

 

[theTman]

How great of an advantage torque wise does the torquemaster have over the crawlmaster? Also, I see on your site that 6 degree timing is optimal. What are the advantages and drawbacks of 12 degree timing?

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