MAPP only oxy/acet/mapp setup

[saltinemadness]

I've got a question.

I have this bernzomatic torch kit:

It works fine and dandy, and I know how to braze and all that jazz.
However, before I bought this setup, I was under the impression that I would be able to just use MAPP with this and have it produce a torch flame, not just a poopy sooty giant candle. Is there a way or a torch similar to this one that will allow me to just use MAPP gas without the oxygen? Shizz is getting expensive.

I know about the smith little jeweler's torch (and I will buy that with larger tanks eventually) but for now, is there like, a way to maybe vent the head of the torch or something so there's more naturally occuring oxygen helping to fuel the MAPP gas into a torch? Am I completely stupid?

Can somebody enlighten me please?

 

[Charlie-III]

You would need to mess with the tip a bit.

A standard Bernz-O-Matic torch has the vent holes in the tip tube, this is how it gets the air to mix with the fuel.
You could run MAPP on the older style torch.

I have the same 2 part kit, yes, it gets real expensive real fast. Next thing you know, you have "bought" a real set-up.:roll:

 

[stanmondz]

look into a crosstech dual burner torch. there made to braze in hvac work. they get really hot. brazing with just mapp and cheap bronze rod is no problem. it will braze with cheaper propane, just takes a little longer to get up to temp

Crosstech Double Torch Head with Clean Out TM2100CLO | eBay

 

[hbj069]

Why can't you use compressed air instead of the oxygen tank? Regulated of course.

 

[saltinemadness]

Why can't you use compressed air instead of the oxygen tank? Regulated of course.

Well i don't have a compressor, and I'd still have to worry about an extra tank that I would need to refill, even though it would last longer and be cheaper. I used to have an old MAPP screw on torch head, but the flame was too large for what I wanted to do, so I got this little guy.

 

[saltinemadness]

look into a crosstech dual burner torch. there made to braze in hvac work. they get really hot. brazing with just mapp and cheap bronze rod is no problem. it will braze with cheaper propane, just takes a little longer to get up to temp

Crosstech Double Torch Head with Clean Out TM2100CLO | eBay

75 bucks!? ouch!

 

[saltinemadness]

Does anyone think that maybe drilling tiny holes in the torch head would allow sufficient airflow for a good oxygen/mapp mixture? Or does this seem dangerous?

 

[saltinemadness]

Because if that were to work, then we'd have the best, cheapest EASILY ATTAINABLE, small tipped torch to work with. It'd be a breakthrough in brazing economics!

 

[trwelds]

just looking at the picture i dunno if you could get holes big enough for enough air to flow in. You could try and add holes and then regulate down on the oxygen to use less if they are not big enough. you could also see if you can unscrew the tip and try a different tip on the end of it.

Out of curiosity how much oxygen do you use compared to the mapp gas? On my welding rig I get 6 oxygen bottles to one acetylene using 40 psi of oxygen and 5psi of fuel gas. that is working with steel that is 1/2" to 4" thick. doing this smaller stuff i can get away with 15-20 psi of oxygen and 2-3 psi of fuel gas.

My local welding shop carries refillable oxygen tanks that stand about a foot high. This might be a cheaper than buying a bottle from a hardware store every-time. http://www.blueshield.ca/en/docs/pdf/productCatalog/gasApparatus/gasapparatus_e_2-outfits.pdf

The second one down called the duo mini shows the size of the bottles.

Mapp gas is mixed with other hydro carbons to cut the cost down. On a industrial level its not really used anymore due to the high cost compared to the propane and acetylene costs.

 

[saltinemadness]

just looking at the picture i dunno if you could get holes big enough for enough air to flow in. You could try and add holes and then regulate down on the oxygen to use less if they are not big enough. you could also see if you can unscrew the tip and try a different tip on the end of it.

Out of curiosity how much oxygen do you use compared to the mapp gas? On my welding rig I get 6 oxygen bottles to one acetylene using 40 psi of oxygen and 5psi of fuel gas. that is working with steel that is 1/2" to 4" thick. doing this smaller stuff i can get away with 15-20 psi of oxygen and 2-3 psi of fuel gas.

My local welding shop carries refillable oxygen tanks that stand about a foot high. This might be a cheaper than buying a bottle from a hardware store every-time. http://www.blueshield.ca/en/docs/pdf/productCatalog/gasApparatus/gasapparatus_e_2-outfits.pdf

The second one down called the duo mini shows the size of the bottles.

Mapp gas is mixed with other hydro carbons to cut the cost down. On a industrial level its not really used anymore due to the high cost compared to the propane and acetylene costs.

I'm not sure how much oxy I end up using. I don't really keep track. I like the sound of those little tanks though. I might try drilling and see what happens... I don't think the tip is removable though

 

[bob1961]

i have one of those trigger torches by benz O and made a cone for the tip to make the flame smaller then the 1/2" that comes out....made a nice cone with a 1/8" maybe 3/16" tip and the trigger would not light the flame....i do notice that the holes in my torch have big holes and not just one of them, so i'm not sure drilling holes in a torch tube that has none might be a good idea....they might need to be of a size to let the right amount of air to mix properly withthe MAPP........bob

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[gary]

i have one of those trigger torches by benz O and made a cone for the tip to make the flame smaller then the 1/2" that comes out....made a nice cone with a 1/8" maybe 3/16" tip and the trigger would not light the flame....i do notice that the holes in my torch have big holes and not just one of them, so i'm not sure drilling holes in a torch tube that has none might be a good idea....they might need to be of a size to let the right amount of air to mix properly withthe MAPP........bob

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Can you post up a pic of your setup?

 

[saltinemadness]

Can you post up a pic of your setup?

ditto! I like the push button setup. I was thinking of getting the bernzo pushbutton hose torch, and then like you said, cone it down somehow... THAT would be the perfect setup. Maybe the piezo element in the tip is somehow inhibited because you put the new cone on? what is the cone made out of? how did you attach it?

I fell asleep last night, or else i would have messed with the tip of my torch, but i completely forgot and passed out

 

[bob1961]

i don't have any pic's of what i made, but i used a cake decorater cone from a bag for frosting that had an 1/8" hole....took my dremel and made 4 slots in the large open end and bent them around my torch tip....stayed on nice and tight and stayed when i had the trigger held and gas coming out with no flame....didn't try to use a lighter to light it though as i wanted the trigger start feature :roll: .........bob

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[saltinemadness]

i don't have any pic's of what i made, but i used a cake decorater cone from a bag for frosting that had an 1/8" hole....took my dremel and made 4 slots in the large open end and bent them around my torch tip....stayed on nice and tight and stayed when i had the trigger held and gas coming out with no flame....didn't try to use a lighter to light it though as i wanted the trigger start feature :roll: .........bob

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it seems like such an easy problem to solve, we're just too stupid to figure it out!

 

[stanmondz]

75 bucks!? ouch!

how much was that OX2550 set up? plus endless oxy bottles?
iv brazed up to 5/16th tube with it using 1/8th" bronze coated brazing rod with both mapp and propane. mapp does get hotter faster, so i prefer it over propane.
i did send the guy a message about the single burner head,he says it gets as hot as the dual,and its a few bucks cheaper"thumbsup"

cost wise,its the best cheapest option out there. only got to buy one bottle,and you dont have to buy 30+ dollar a oz solder, i got a pound of bronze rods for 8 bucks.
the head is a big dent in the pocket ill admit that