LCC or LNC tranny for sportsman

[Genghis Ken]

Hey all, just getting back into crawling. I am going to build up a basic budget rig and I need some advice. I have an LCC and an LNC, for a sportsman rig is there any reason I shouldn't use the LNC tranny? I remember the ratios were not the same for the 2 trannies. Does one have an advantage over the other? Also when I last crawled rigs were heavy, we were putting weight in the wheels and on the axles, now it would seem that is no longer done, what happened? Does anyone crawl heavy anymore? Why the switch?

 

[Olle P]

The LNC tranny has the advantages! It's lighter, smaller and has less internal friction.

As for the weight "issue" I think the anorectic trend right now is nothing but a trend. Very heavy does have its disadvantages, so making the rigs lighter is natural. Pushing that envelop further will go too far, and after a while some normality will be the result.
Personally I don't chase grams but just try to get the COG right.

 

[dentonmac]

If you have the choice between the two for a sportsman rig, LNC tranny hands down (no question). Exactly for the reasons Olle mentioned above. I rock the LCC tranny in my sportsman, and it does great, but if I had the choice LNC tranny would be in there.

About the anorexic issue. I have asked that same question many times, but never got a really good answer. And, IMO, it has NEVER proven itself on the rocks. I think that people were thinking about taking as much weight off to be able to place the weight back lower and where it best benefitted weight distribution. Example; removing the up-high, sprung weight. But ended up being so cock strong about how light it was, they never put it back on and learned to tune and drive at that weight.

I run with some guys that are serious calorie counters, and I can hang with them. The weight is not the difference, they are much better drivers. The only difference I see is that mine makes a louder thud when it falls of the rocks.

Until I see an appreciable difference, I will be working to make it lighter in the right places, but never going crazy with it.

 

[Tgreer]

Definitly lnc!"thumbsup"

 

[jgrim]

I'm going to echo what Olle P and dentonmac had to say about weight. I run heavy. I tried to run light. I took all the weight out of the rear and just ran enough weight up front to maintain about a 60/40 weight distribution. We run on high traction granite. Our courses tend to have lots of long steep climbs and descents, and severe sidehills. With the lighter weight, it may have climbed a little better, but I could not keep the rear down on steep descents or keep the rear planted on sidehills. I went back to heavy and stayed there. Most of the folks I crawl with also run heavy. Jerry

 

[Hardline]

Okay, then I'll take the other side just to keep things lively. If the strong majority of the top finishing cars at major meets are the liteweight guys, who are you to say they're wrong? Unless I'm mistaken, none of you (nor myself) are national heavy hitters, so just because things work well for you at local comps with local people, that doesn't extrapolate to TRUTH. I'm really good at beating my dog at chess. Other opponents, not so much.

Now you can counter that the top guys win because they're the best drivers and the lightweight is irrelative. But maybe they're lightweight because the top guys know best, eh? In my experience heavy cars do certain things well. But winning at the majors isn't one of them. If you've tried light and didn't like it, maybe you did it wrong. Or maybe it takes a different driving style. Or maybe the top guys have all been fooled and some heavyweight will come along and wipe them up. Hey...that could be one of you guys. Go get em.

.

 

[ghtpdm5]

i'm firmly in the lightweight camp. my truck is doing better at the lighter weight (3lbs 11oz ish rtr) than it did at 5lbs 3oz. there is more tuning involved because of the weight to get the performance where i want it, but after running this light, i'm never going back.

the main benefits i'm seeing are in the drivetrain. everything across the board is running cooler than before at much the same setup as before. motor temps, esc temps, gearset temps, they have all reduced significantly since going light. the only thing electronics wise that runs warm is the steering servo.

the truck is also more responsive. small adjustments in throttle and steering can now be larger in scope. acceleration is snappier, i can manipulate the rear end position much more easily with burn and some steering input. the steering speed has gone up moving less mass around. all of it is a gain. the only slight disadvantage for me is very low traction rock. extra weight does help here, but i'm talking steel finished concrete or smoother rock. on high traction crushed concrete and limestone, i still have more than enough traction to get the job done.

 

[Tgreer]

I agree with everything ghtpdm5 said!!! Im a fan of light, but not superlight, but overall it's different strokes for different folks! I am aware of several heavy hitters that run heavy. What I call heavy is over 4 3/4pounds. I think both have there weak points and advantages. A big part of witch way to go is driving style. It's what works and reacts best for you!"thumbsup"

 

[dentonmac]

Hardline you made incredibly valid points, that made me rethink a few things. Honestly I did not mean the difference between light and heavy, but being super conscious about weight. I have not weighed my rig at all. It is probably under 5 pounds, and there are things that I can easily do to make it lighter. I am just very happy with the way my rig is performing. But I need to weigh it to know where I am at.

To further Hardlines point, if you look the heavy hitters for example....we wouldn't be driving Losis. That being said, my Losi performs much better than my setup AX10. And at the last comp it did very well against some guys in the sporty top 5 at ECC. If I had not blown up in the finals, the Losi would of taken it. My fault not the Losis.

 

[WAM]

I too have both and I'm not ready to concede the Losi. Best of the West was won by a Losi. Nabil, a serious national type, is building one. 2.2Shafty is new. Give it a year and see where we are.

 

[Olle P]

... If the strong majority of the top finishing cars at major meets are the liteweight guys, who are you to say they're wrong? Unless I'm mistaken, none of you (nor myself) are national heavy hitters, so ... that doesn't extrapolate to TRUTH.

The majority of the top finishing cars are owned and driven by experts that have spent lots of time and money on their skills and rigs.

If they reach the top positions, is it because their rigs are (significantly) better or because they're better drivers? (Compared to the middle field.)

IMO they do better primarily because they're better drivers and happen to have very light cars because they have the will and resources to push the current "fashion" faster and further than the rest of us (to find out if it is also "better").

I honestly don't think it's worth spending hundreds of dollars to cut 2oz or less off the total weight once the major overhead is gone.

 

[pajey]

I agree with tgreer. Different people like different things and it's all personal preference. Whatever works best for you. I know people go with the crowd and try the lightweight thing and hate it so they change back to how it was(working great) wasting their money. I guess its just like the old saying 'if it can't broke don't fix it'. But on the other hand I know people who have changed to lightweight and love it. They say the rig feels 1000 times better and can't believe the difference it makes.

 

[ghtpdm5]

as far as money goes, it can cost a lot of money...if you let it. getting below 4 is a task, but getting around the 4 mark isn't all that expensive. hardware store aluminum tubing to replace heavier spreaders, material removal, and strategic weight distribution are the big ones. also, most losi users upgrade tires, foams, and wheels. shave the sidewalls (basically free if you already have a dremel), cut or clap out the tread, some interior shaving, doesn't take long to take weight out of tires. wheels are a whatever thing, but if you do some drilling in the stock wheels, make your own face and spreader wheels out of them, or mod some glue-ons to take vp hubs, its really not that expensive. the little things like aluminum hardware and wire shortening are huge gains for minimal money.

my train of thought on the the weight i run is that i can always add back some weight if i need to. knuckle weights and even stick-on lead would allow me to take into account for the traction conditions and also allow me to place the weight as low and to the corners as possible.

 

[EeePee]

Losi's need some weight down low to counter the transmission up high.

The National heavy hitters are good because they drive a lot. Been there. I was driving almost daily. Practice practice practice.

The lightweight trend comes and goes, for me at least. I did it with a TLT, an Axial AX-10 and a Berg. Started light with the Losi then heavy, then light. Doesn't matter. The driving skills matter more. Or to understand what is happening and what will happen to the truck if such and such... that's the important thing. Not weight.

 

[dentonmac]

I too have both and I'm not ready to concede the Losi. Best of the West was won by a Losi. Nabil, a serious national type, is building one. 2.2Shafty is new. Give it a year and see where we are.

Didn't know that. That is fantastic to hear, him being an ex Losi factory driver as well as sporty national champ. Would LOVE to see that build thread.

I will take total blame, because I have wanted to have this conversation for a while. But this poor thread has been totally derailed.

 

[Genghis Ken]

That's ok, lots of opinions presented. Thanks for your 2 cents Eeps, whenever I get caught up in trying to have the "best" rig its good to be brought back to earth with the fact that the driving will count for more.
Now about that tranny, I have a goat ballistic 18.5 combo going into the LNC tranny, what size pinions do I need? I have a 14 and a 13, but the pinion that's on the LNC motor had way more teeth, should I use that one instead?

 

[WAM]

Get an assortment of pinions between 12 and 20, they're cheap. Start small and note what great low speed crawling you get. At the cost of wheel speed. Then start fitting larger gears and note the speed increase, but gradual loss of very low speed capablitly, mostly on gnarly descents. Also check your motor can temperatures as you go bigger. After a bit you won't need to ask what pinion to use. It will be what suits your wants and needs.