Cheap brushless motor / ESC for Rock Rey

[MrBlank]

I recently bough a rock rey kit, but have yet to start building it.

I have never owned a brushless system, as all of my current rcs are brushed scale/trail, as well as a couple of Latrax that I barely ever use.

I need to buy a brushless motor and ESC. I am aiming to spend $80-$120 CDN.

I would like something that could be used for speed (nothing crazy fast, I am used to 27T scalers) as well as potentially used for rock racing / some crawling.

Initially, during the "$15 off $80 or more" sale on the 17th I was considering one of the Hobbywing combos available on RCMart - such as Sensored 10BL60 and 3650SD - but I was not sure about the available turn ratings or the fact that it was not waterproof, and it appeared I would still need a sensor wire and program card (not sure if the wp1080 one works), which would put me at $125 plus customs for something I wasn't at all sure about.

Now that I missed the sale, and have had time to think and search, I am thinking of getting:

TenShock 2400kv 6-pole sensorless motor - $55.39 with shipping
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/132311917998

and Hobbywing QuicRun 1:10 Brushless WaterProof 60A ESC WP-10BL60 - $55.39 free shipping
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hobbywing-Q...d-WP-10BL60-/131632031023?hash=item1ea5e1652f

Any thoughts on going sensorless? I want a waterproof ESC, and I believe it has an adjustable drag brake when using a programming card.

I will be running 3S lipo.

 

[Jim85IROC]

Going Sensorless will be ok under the following conditions:
1. You don't have expectations of super low speed crawlability
2. You buy a good ESC.

I'll explain:

1. A sensorless system just isn't going to give you good low speed startup. With a poor quality sensorless system, it's going to cog like crazy until you get it moving, after which, it'll more or less be fine. With a better quality system, you won't get that low speed cogging, but your minimum startup speed will be somewhat high, which will still impair your ability to crawl slowly.

2. 90% of what determines the sensorless startup quality is your ESC. A Castle Sidewinder 4 or Mamba X (and some other quality ESCs) will give you good startup capabilities with minimal cogging. Some other, cheaper ESCs will still give you good startup, but at a higher initial RPM. Other ESCs will give you a ton of cogging.


Some of this can be mitigated by your motor choice. A high KV motor that you gear way down will show less cogging and lower startup speeds, but there's a limit to how far you can gear down the vehicle, and it's mostly determined by how large of a spur gear you can physically fit into the vehicle.

Personally, I've had mixed experiences with Hobbywing ESCs with respect to cogging & startup. I've got a WP8 ESC powering a cheap 4 pole 2850kv 1/8 scale motor in my Slashpede and it cogs more than I wish it did. It pretty much cogs just as badly as the original Velineon system did. On my dad's Ruckus I've got a 60A EZ-Run ESC powering a 2 pole Tacon 3500kv motor. That truck exhibits no cogging at all, but has a relatively high initial startup speed.

My son's Circuit runs a cheap Racerstar brushless motor/ESC combo which works surprisingly well. Like the setup in my dad's truck, it exhibits virtually no cogging, but has a really high startup speed. I have a 3660 can with similar ESC in another truck (I think it's branded differently, but it's the same OEM) and it cogs like crazy. Once I had to kick the truck to get it to move.


TL/DR: buy a good ESC.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

I'd want an ESC rated at more than 60A for a 1/8th scale rig like the Rock Rey.

The Tenshock is supposed to be a pretty smooth sensorless motor because it has 6 poles. If you watch videos of it crawling on YouTube it actually does really well. I'd have no problem trying it.

The Mamba X is a great ESC. John Holmes said the new Sidewinder 4, which is sensorless only, is supposed to be a smoother controller for sensorless motors. If you ever plan on going sensored get the Mamba X. If you plan on staying sensorless get the Sidewinder 4.

 

[Crawler Cads]

I've a Trackstar 120 gen2 sensored alongside a HW sensored 3650 13.5t in my son's Wraith and he crawls amazingly well with that combo. Slow start up and zero cogging; I've been really impressed with it. But, it's not got a really good drag brake so he has to use the throttle to hold it on steep inclines.
Think I paid less than your budget for the two.
Top speed around 20mph I'd guess.
Is the Rey much heavier than a Wraith?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[JatoTheRipper]

Here's a video comparing the Tenshock to the Holmes Revolver which is another option if you don't mind the noises that motor can make.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/keyj9530Vpk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MrBlank]

I could get the 120A version of the hobbywing for another $10 or so on top of the 60A version if I remember correctly, but from what Jim is sayin, without a good esc it won't matter that it is a 6-pole, and I likely will still not have the ability to run the Tenshock without extreme cogging.

Jato - I can get the sidewinder 4 SCT combo (comes with a sensored motor for whatever reason) at my LHS for $179.99 + tax (regular $295), but that doubles my budget. Maybe I can find the ESC alone online cheaper... does it work with the usual Castle link / field card? I have both

Mamba X runs around $200 on ebay, and as it comes from US I am guarenteed to get hit with customs (stuff from China, etc. is hit and miss with customs) - then I will still need a motor.

Crawler Cads - assuming this is the ESC

https://m.ebay.ca/itm/TRACKSTAR-120...Tl&_sop=15&_nkw=trackstar+120&_from=R40&rt=nc

I am looking at $100 plus customs - plus a programming card for $35 plus customs, putting me around $160 for the ESC alone.

I mostly want a somewhat fast rig out of the rock rey (20mph - 30mph)
I would also like to be able to do light crawling, but I don't feel that will be my primary concern.

I thank you all for your opinions. I guess at this point I need to decide if it is worth buying the Tenshock motor and a cheap ESC, then eventually picking up a Good ESC in the future used or on sale - or if I should just cheap out all the way around with a no name $40-$60 combo on Ebay.

 

[Crawler Cads]

That's not the Gen 2 sensored but with your taxes I don't think it matters too much sorry buddy [emoji852]
Good luck with what you choose, I'm sure you'll have a blast soon enough [emoji106]

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Rekreant]

You could just roll the dice on a GoolRC setup. I have a 32$ GoolRC motor and esc combo in my Traxxas Slash and its a beast. For crawling tho it would be terrible because it cogs like crazy at low rpm.

 

[Jim85IROC]

The GoolRC systems are the same as the Racerstar stuff I mentioned above. I've got a 3660 GoolRC setup in my Desert Fox. The ESC is crap, but it works. For the $40-ish that I paid, it's well worth the money. It'll cog like crazy at startup like Rekreant mentioned, but for $40, it's a good motor. It'll work fine while you save some cash for a better ESC.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

I could get the 120A version of the hobbywing for another $10 or so on top of the 60A version if I remember correctly, but from what Jim is sayin, without a good esc it won't matter that it is a 6-pole, and I likely will still not have the ability to run the Tenshock without extreme cogging.

Jato - I can get the sidewinder 4 SCT combo (comes with a sensored motor for whatever reason) at my LHS for $179.99 + tax (regular $295), but that doubles my budget. Maybe I can find the ESC alone online cheaper... does it work with the usual Castle link / field card? I have both

Mamba X runs around $200 on ebay, and as it comes from US I am guarenteed to get hit with customs (stuff from China, etc. is hit and miss with customs) - then I will still need a motor.

Crawler Cads - assuming this is the ESC

https://m.ebay.ca/itm/TRACKSTAR-120...Tl&_sop=15&_nkw=trackstar+120&_from=R40&rt=nc

I am looking at $100 plus customs - plus a programming card for $35 plus customs, putting me around $160 for the ESC alone.

I mostly want a somewhat fast rig out of the rock rey (20mph - 30mph)
I would also like to be able to do light crawling, but I don't feel that will be my primary concern.

I thank you all for your opinions. I guess at this point I need to decide if it is worth buying the Tenshock motor and a cheap ESC, then eventually picking up a Good ESC in the future used or on sale - or if I should just cheap out all the way around with a no name $40-$60 combo on Ebay.

Bummer with all the tax and import fees!

I'm not sure if the Castle Link or card works with the Sidewinder4. Robert@Castle should be able to answer that. I would assume it does, but that's just an assumption.

The HobbyKing 120A ESC would suit you well on a budget. I forget if it has instant/crawler reverse though so look into that if you need that. Mine is in a short course truck. The Tenshock motor impresses me.

On your budget I think you have to choose one or the other for good and the other go budget. If you go budget with both the ESC and the motor it will cost twice as much when you go to upgrade these.

 

[Joonatin]

The HobbyKing 120A ESC would suit you well on a budget. I forget if it has instant/crawler reverse though so look into that if you need that. Mine is in a short course truck. The Tenshock motor impresses me.

I had one of those in my Xray XB4. I think it had an option for instant reverse and was also quite tunable in many ways. Problem is, I wasn’t into crawlers back then, so I can’t remember if it had something akin to drag brake that could hold. It had a fairly good brake while driving, i think it could lock tires completely if you put the brake strength too high so I suppose it might work with crawlers to some degree. Quality was okay in my opinion, one gripe was the integrated power button, but you can lock it down with something, or try opening the esc and soldering a jumper on it. If you’re fine with fwd/brk/rev, you’re probably fine, though I’m not 100% sure on the brake strength with a heavier rig.

The programming card is needed for tuning, but those are really cheap, and work as battery meters too.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

I had one of those in my Xray XB4. I think it had an option for instant reverse and was also quite tunable in many ways. Problem is, I wasn’t into crawlers back then, so I can’t remember if it had something akin to drag brake that could hold. It had a fairly good brake while driving, i think it could lock tires completely if you put the brake strength too high so I suppose it might work with crawlers to some degree. Quality was okay in my opinion, one gripe was the integrated power button, but you can lock it down with something, or try opening the esc and soldering a jumper on it. If you’re fine with fwd/brk/rev, you’re probably fine, though I’m not 100% sure on the brake strength with a heavier rig.

The programming card is needed for tuning, but those are really cheap, and work as battery meters too.

It's a HobbyWing clone so the HobbyWing programming card works on this HobbyKing ESC.

 

[robert@castle]

Jato - I can get the sidewinder 4 SCT combo (comes with a sensored motor for whatever reason) at my LHS for $179.99 + tax (regular $295), but that doubles my budget. Maybe I can find the ESC alone online cheaper... does it work with the usual Castle link / field card? I have both

Mamba X runs around $200 on ebay, and as it comes from US I am guarenteed to get hit with customs (stuff from China, etc. is hit and miss with customs) - then I will still need a motor.

Yes, the Sidewinder 4 is compatible with the Castle Link and Field link card. To the best of my knowledge the last Castle ESC that wasn't able to be Castle Linked was the Pixie line. A brushed airplane controller, that was released something like 15 years ago.

 

[MrBlank]

As far as better quality sensorless goes, what's a better buy out of the following:

Mamba Monster 2 ESC - $150+13% hst, free ship. (Reg. $250) Amazon.ca

Or:

Sidewinder 4 SCT combo with sensored motor - $180+13% hst (reg. $295) my closest LHS.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

As far as better quality sensorless goes, what's a better buy out of the following:

Mamba Monster 2 ESC - $150+13% hst, free ship. (Reg. $250) Amazon.ca

Or:

Sidewinder 4 SCT combo with sensored motor - $180+13% hst (reg. $295) my closest LHS.

Don't get the Mamba Monster 2. That's older stuff. Get the Sidewinder 4 which is as new as it gets.

The Sidewinder 4 is also touted for it's smooth sensorless control.

 

[MrBlank]

Don't get the Mamba Monster 2. That's older stuff. Get the Sidewinder 4 which is as new as it gets.

The Sidewinder 4 is also touted for it's smooth sensorless control.

Thanks! Is it an issue that the one at my LHS is a "SCT" edition? Or is that based on the provided motor? I could purchase just the ESC online, but it will likely cost me more.

I have castle link and field card already (bought to adjust BEC)

 

[JatoTheRipper]

Thanks! Is it an issue that the one at my LHS is a "SCT" edition? Or is that based on the provided motor? I could purchase just the ESC online, but it will likely cost me more.

I have castle link and field card already (bought to adjust BEC)

Sorry, I missed the SCT part. I believe that the SCT combo just throws in a 4-pole "short course" motor. The ESC shouldn't be different as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong. I would reach out to Robert@Castle if he doesn't chime in here.