Best option for 1st time competetive Rock Crawler on a budget

[IronArcher]

So, I have this bad habbit of picking up a new hobby and going WAY too far with it...guessing I'll fit right in here ;-)
What I'm looking for (and don't know if it exists) is either an RTR that is darn near competitive out of the box, or a kit that has pretty much everything but the electronics.
All of the RTRs I see have at least one thing I like or want.
Element has the behind axle steering and comes with Overdrive
Redcat Gen 9 seems like a good (albeit ugly) option...maybe a bit tall, but seems to have nice axles....not much reviews on them
The Gen 8 v2 looks great, but I hear the steering is a weakness, and the body hanging way off the back seems to hurt performance.
Vanquish? Nice but far out of my budget.
I'd LIKE to keep it around $400 or so.

Things I put in some order of preference.
Very low speed control
Steering (angle and strong servo)
Flex (of course)

Things that would be nice, but not deal breakers
Portal Axles
Looks (Element Ecto seems to perform well, but looks cheap AF. Gen 8 looks great, but seems limited in ability)

Things I'll worry about if I take this to the next few levels (i.e. I don't care to pay for any of the following)
Multi Speed trans
Locking/Unlocking diffs
Lights
Ultra realistic replicas.

units I have bounced back and forth on

Redcat Gen 8v2 Gen 9
Element Ecto and Enduro Senero
Traxxis TRX-4 Sport

Again, this is just going 100% by reviews/youtube vids. I have zero experience with any of these.

And again, seems most of the RTR come needing an upgraded motor and/or servo, so a kit wouldn't be out of the question....I just don't want to pick every single component. I can't make a decision on just an RTR much less picking every part LOL!

Sorry if this is a bit rambly, as I told the friend who kind of steered me into this "I should have just bought the 1st good looking RC is saw, now I know way too much without knowing hardly anything at all" :ror:


Bonus question:
Which is better for rock crawling on the Element cars? The swingarm rear suspension? or standard 4 link? And how much better (if at all) is it?

 

[Fallen]

If you're interested in competitive rock crawling, the Elements on your list are probably your safest bet.

As far as the difference between trailing arm suspension VS 4 link, I don't really understand suspension geometry. But I've looked at enough full size off-roaders to know that the go-fast desert rigs are trailing arm. The go-slow, rock crawling rigs are 4 link.

You'll VERY quickly find yourself gaining an understanding of electronics, so don't shy away from a kit if you're handy with the tools. But I suspect you'll want to stick with Element, if you're not interested in the new Axial SCX Pro.

 

[hnoroian]

Right now, while you can

https://www.horizonhobby.com/product/1-10-scx10-iii-early-ford-bronco-4wd-rtr/AXI03014.html

 

[B-MOW71]

IMO the Element Ecto is the best performer out of the box. Don't let the "cheap AF" fool you. It is excellent on the rocks and has plenty of aftermarket support to make it even better. And it has the BTA steering and the Stealth-X trans is super smooth and quiet and can be setup with underdrive/overdrive.

The other "best" choice IMO is the Vanquish Phoenix Portal kit. Outstanding out of the box and is priced right. Very hard to beat the VP quality and it doesn't really need much to make it better. It comes with the VFD Twin transmission that has DIG and a selectable overdrive. Really the only upgrade I did to mine was add the front brass portal covers. It's one hell of a performer and is very durable.

I have and had many brands and that's the only 2 brands I would look at. If it were me, I'd scratch the Redcat off the list. Not worth it IMO!

 

[ferp420]

no scale rig is gona be competitive out of the box and the best performance mod is the driver mod
so enuff with the bull sherbert lets get down to some opinions
scouts are the best looking and best performing off road vehicles ever produced so facks of the hatter is the scout always wins
every comp ever cause well cause i sead so with absolutly nothing to back that up

but heres the only thing you will ever need to know about rc crawling
you will buy them all and you will never be happy again untill you get the next fix

ENJOY YOUR RC ADDICTION

 

[Fricker08]

but heres the only thing you will ever need to know about rc crawling
you will buy them all and you will never be happy again untill you get the next fix

ENJOY YOUR RC ADDICTION

This.. this right here is the 100% truth.

I second the ecto, super fun rig out of the box. I just swapped mine to links and have yet to run it. I also second the phoenix portal kit. I’d personally lock out the trans and throw a hobbywing 1080, Holmes hobbies crawlmaster sport 16t or 13t in it and an Amazon servo to get you started. Other than the redcat… like previously mentioned… you can’t really go wrong


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[B-MOW71]

but heres the only thing you will ever need to know about rc crawling
you will buy them all and you will never be happy again untill you get the next fix

ENJOY YOUR RC ADDICTION

Exactly!"thumbsup" Said with perfection!

 

[twade984]

no scale rig is gona be competitive out of the box and the best performance mod is the driver mod
so enuff with the bull sherbert lets get down to some opinions
scouts are the best looking and best performing off road vehicles ever produced so facks of the hatter is the scout always wins
every comp ever cause well cause i sead so with absolutly nothing to back that up

but heres the only thing you will ever need to know about rc crawling
you will buy them all and you will never be happy again untill you get the next fix

ENJOY YOUR RC ADDICTION

This.. this right here is the 100% truth.

I second the ecto, super fun rig out of the box. I just swapped mine to links and have yet to run it. I also second the phoenix portal kit. I’d personally lock out the trans and throw a hobbywing 1080, Holmes hobbies crawlmaster sport 16t or 13t in it and an Amazon servo to get you started. Other than the redcat… like previously mentioned… you can’t really go wrong


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IMO the Element Ecto is the best performer out of the box. Don't let the "cheap AF" fool you. It is excellent on the rocks and has plenty of aftermarket support to make it even better. And it has the BTA steering and the Stealth-X trans is super smooth and quiet and can be setup with underdrive/overdrive.



The other "best" choice IMO is the Vanquish Phoenix Portal kit. Outstanding out of the box and is priced right. Very hard to beat the VP quality and it doesn't really need much to make it better. It comes with the VFD Twin transmission that has DIG and a selectable overdrive. Really the only upgrade I did to mine was add the front brass portal covers. It's one hell of a performer and is very durable.



I have and had many brands and that's the only 2 brands I would look at. If it were me, I'd scratch the Redcat off the list. Not worth it IMO!

I will agree with all of the above, although I would give strong consideration to the Phoenix RTR over the kit.

My choice would be Phoenix RTR first, element ecto 2nd.

Sendero is too big bodied to be competitive imo.

No experience with redcat, so no comment there.


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[IronArcher]

Well, It seems the universe is listening in on me. I am STRONGLY leaning towards the ECTO, but now for some reason, a plain Green one is like $410 and the much beefier (caged body on pivots vs cheap polycarbonate Power Wagon looking body) is only $299. I don't understand how they price these things! They are the same truck, but the Gatekeeper has a much more expensive to make body, but costs $110 LESS?!?!?! Grrr And the Black "Weatherable" version is $10 less than the simple green one. 2 tone paint job MUST cost more right? Crazy! How hard would it be to convert the gatekeeper to a "Normal" body mount?

@hnoroian Thanks for the link!!!!! That through a wrench in the plans for a while as well. Overall, it would SEEM like the Ecto would be a better crawler....Am I wrong?

 

[twade984]

Well, It seems the universe is listening in on me. I am STRONGLY leaning towards the ECTO, but now for some reason, a plain Green one is like $410 and the much beefier (caged body on pivots vs cheap polycarbonate Power Wagon looking body) is only $299. I don't understand how they price these things! They are the same truck, but the Gatekeeper has a much more expensive to make body, but costs $110 LESS?!?!?! Grrr And the Black "Weatherable" version is $10 less than the simple green one. 2 tone paint job MUST cost more right? Crazy

@hnoroian Thanks for the link!!!!! That through a wrench in the plans for a while as well. Overall, it would SEEM like the Ecto would be a better crawler....Am I wrong?

That is a gatekeeper, not an ecto. The gatekeeper cage is noticeably heavier and less capable than the ecto body.

But at that price, it might be worth buying the gatekeeper rtr to get going, and you could add an ecto body for $53 (plus paint) and still be into it less.


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[durok]

Well, It seems the universe is listening in on me. I am STRONGLY leaning towards the ECTO, but now for some reason, a plain Green one is like $410 and the much beefier (caged body on pivots vs cheap polycarbonate Power Wagon looking body) is only $299. I don't understand how they price these things! They are the same truck, but the Gatekeeper has a much more expensive to make body, but costs $110 LESS?!?!?! Grrr And the Black "Weatherable" version is $10 less than the simple green one. 2 tone paint job MUST cost more right? Crazy! How hard would it be to convert the gatekeeper to a "Normal" body mount?

@hnoroian Thanks for the link!!!!! That through a wrench in the plans for a while as well. Overall, it would SEEM like the Ecto would be a better crawler....Am I wrong?

If you buy the Ecto body, it comes with the rear body mount adapter that allows using it on the Gatekeeper chassis.

I love my Ecto - it's very capable.

 

[hnoroian]

Overall, it would SEEM like the Ecto would be a better crawler....Am I wrong?

I and most others would agree that the Ecto/GK are crawlers where as the 10.3 is more of a trail but my straight axle has plenty of flex. For my crawling we usually trail our cars to our “crawling” spots, Taking our “trail” trucks is part of the fun and trying to be better drivers with the same lines (which are often doable). I have done some competitions but find more joy in goofing off with the trucks and finding absurd lines to tackle.

 

[IronArcher]

That is a gatekeeper, not an ecto. The gatekeeper cage is noticeably heavier and less capable than the ecto body.

But at that price, it might be worth buying the gatekeeper rtr to get going, and you could add an ecto body for $53 (plus paint) and still be into it less.


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Right, the GK is the heavy one. But without mods, seems to be closer to the Ecto than one would think!
I think I am going to go the route you suggested. Buy the gatekeeper, then add the Ecto body.

Hell the gatekeeper body should be stronger…very useful as I suspect I will be failing a lot more that more experienced drivers

I actually have a few ideas for modifying the gatekeeper body. I am if nothing else, rather handy, and have decent fabrication skills. My goal is to make the Gatekeeper body 8oz lighter, without it looking like I took a chainsaw to it

 

[twade984]

Right, the GK is the heavy one. But without mods, seems to be closer to the Ecto than one would think!
I think I am going to go the route you suggested. Buy the gatekeeper, then add the Ecto body.

Hell the gatekeeper body should be stronger…very useful as I suspect I will be failing a lot more that more experienced drivers[emoji6]

I actually have a few ideas for modifying the gatekeeper body. I am if nothing else, rather handy, and have decent fabrication skills. My goal is to make the Gatekeeper body 8oz lighter, without it looking like I took a chainsaw to it[emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23]

That’s a great plan, and a bone stock GK RTR is a great first rig imo.

Something worth mentioning, you may find pursuing ultimate performance is not what brings you the most enjoyment out of the hobby.

The conversion often leads to “what’s better”, “lcg this”, “brass that”, but for me personally, less capable rigs are sometimes more fun to drive.

The main point is find something that fits your budget, and looks good to you, and just go for it


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[IronArcher]

That’s a great plan, and a bone stock GK RTR is a great first rig imo.

Something worth mentioning, you may find pursuing ultimate performance is not what brings you the most enjoyment out of the hobby.

The conversion often leads to “what’s better”, “lcg this”, “brass that”, but for me personally, less capable rigs are sometimes more fun to drive.

The main point is find something that fits your budget, and looks good to you, and just go for it


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Thanks! And…. Just did!!!
Went to my dealer to get the GK… his profit on it was $1.15 before shipping.
I told him, he isn’t losing money on me, so I ordered it from Tower, and got $45 off with their “spring” code!!!!

I told my dealer, I’ll be getter batteries/charger etc. from him… stuff he can at least make a profit on.

As for the earlier 4 link vs. trailing arm, and finding what it best vs most fun:
I think I’m in a good place here. This rig lets me experiment and grow rather painlessly. Hell, I can throw on some 2.2x5.5 wheels/tires without worrying about clearance or anything.
I can go with the Ecto body, or I suspect many other body options.
Hell, they even make a VERY nice 4 link conversion kit in the case I find the trailing arms do hold me back.

I’m in a good place, because I didn’t spend much, and have so many options, while starting with a truck I don’t care if it rolls down a few rocks… because it WILL roll down a few rocks LOL!

Thanks all for the input…. I may just get that 4 link kit to make a comparison video… once I don’t completely suck

 

[IronArcher]

So, I’ve gotten a little bit of time in on the Gatekeeper, and I’m quite impressed.
As mentioned, the body it quite heavy. About 10oz heavier than the Ecto. But in looking at ways to set it up with a camera to investigate a crawl space I don’t feel like crawling in, I found a few bits that I was surprised no one mentions when trying to cut weight.
In the back, there is a small functional box, and a fake radiator.
Those, and their associated screws alone are about 2oz!
There are numerous reinforcement bars on the roll cage that are likely useful for bashing, but maybe not needed to much for crawling. I’m thinking I can drop a little weight there as well.
The 2 riders in the car, have heavy, semi solid heads bolted on, not just molded in. I’m gonna look at changing that as well.
I was happy not to embarrass myself with friends who brought over their cars, and we did some crawling in my back yard over fire wood and such.
Mine WAS a bit top heavy, but I had a larger spy cam and 2 pen lights (a 1 AAA and a 2 AAA) on top.
I’ll post back on how much weight can be removed without doing any damage to the car.
If it isn’t enough, I picked up a new Power Wagon body pretty cheap, we might try that next.

 

[IronArcher]

Weighed a few more parts today.
The “interior” with the driver/passenger weighs about 1.6 oz
Each head weights .3 oz
Cross beams in the back of the cockpit is another .5 oz

So far, we have removed 4oz, but I want SOMETHING in the interior…

Next up, excess reinforcement tubing for the windshield area and top of car. Hoping for another ounce here.

After that, not sure how much can be removed without cutting anything.

Looks like the power wagon body will be useful after all.

 

[IronArcher]

So, just wanted to give an update:
1) So far I’m loving the hobby
2) Finding other drivers/places to ride is the hard part
3) These group has been very helpful, and I very happy with my purchases so far.

As mentioned, I bought the Gatekeeper RTR. Yeah, I wanted the Ecto, but I got this nearly $150 cheaper…so I bought a new body with the savings [emoji23]

Yeah, out of the box it’s ok, but several things seemed obvious upgrades.
As of this writing, I have done the following

New Shock oil and caps (the plastic leaked from day 2)
Heavy high clearance links from Club5. Wanted the clearance, and these look very heavy duty
Heavy steering links from Club5. Leaves more room for clearance to the front pumpkin. Was able to lower the link as a result.
Both sets of links came with chromed brass balls. More reliability/less slop. Mostly lower CG, but not enough to tell.
“Que-T” wheels and Baja X tires, because stock tires and plastic wheels are t helping[emoji6]
Wheel weights/spacers. VERY slight spacing (3mm?), a bit more stability, and lower COG.
Hobbywing 1080 G2, programmability, and higher voltage for servo.
Amazon brushless 35kg servo. Running at 8.7v (I think) it’s crazy fast and very strong… stock servo was kinda slow/weak. The 1080 helps here too.
Updated the overdrive (underdrive?) to 11.8%, it was free, why not? Help climbing a bit
Repositioned the shocks for a lower ride height and spring/damping rate.
Removed a lot of reinforcement sections from stock body. I’m not bashing, most of it is overkill, saved over 5oz so far

So, yeah I went in on the deep end, but loving it
And yeah, it’s another damn power wagon build, but I got it for $40 brand new, and I’m cheap [emoji23]
Still need to cut the shock tower holes, but it’s a start (still has the film on it)

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[IronArcher]

Maybe a flat bed build….trying to keep it a little more “scale” though.