Beginner's Bomber Build - What I've Learned and Help I Need

[powder4breakfast]

Being totally new to this hobby... I have both learned a lot and realized that there is a lot that just takes time and experience to learn. I don't know how a newbie would make it without online forums like this.

Therefore, I'd like to share my build in hopes that it helps another newbie like myself... and also so that I can ask some specific questions without starting more threads. This will be written as if it were the thread I was looking for when I started two months ago, not as a check out my awesome blingy rig... it's not.

The first thing to understand is that I am loving the rock crawling aspect. More than bashing, I really like technical crawling on rock - or trails with obstacles and climbing aspects along the way. Therefore my opinions are slanted towards crawling. As such, I am happy with the stock speed on 3s.

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I have the Onyx 4000mAh 11.1V 3S. I get 1 hour 45 mins of mostly crawling (with a few changes I can now get 2-3 hours). I went with the Hitec X1 mini for my charger. I know nothing about chargers; but, I really like the X1 mini.

My OPINION on what basics are necessary for the RTR in order of importance if you view it as more than just a random toy to break out once in a while:

1) Servo, horn and BEC
These need to be changed right away... as in open box and swap out. I went with the Hitec 7954. There are countless posts about servos. Based on a lot of reviews I happened to go with this one. If it ever fails, I will move to the 7950 (I have since installed a 7950). I put on an Axial clamping servo horn and Castle BEC.

Keep the stock servo around for 2 speed conversion later if desired.

With this one fix alone, you should be able to have some fun and run the Bomber for a while. The next changes are performance based.

2) Spare tire
Move or remove spare tire. I tried to somewhat mimic Billinvic's mod for this and was able to move the spare forward about an inch. If you do not move or remove the tire, it will get hung up. There are some aftermarket solutions or you can get creative.

3) Sway bar.
If you like to bash or run a fast car, you may love the Axial soft sway bar. For climbing, it is too stiff and practically eliminates all flex in the back end. without it you get a lot of torque twist and the front end wont stay planted on climbs costing you traction.

I noticed that I could no longer side hill with the Axial sway bar installed without tipping over. I feel that the best option for crawling based on other reviews is the Vanquish Anti-rock or Dlux. I took a grinder and notched my Axial bar in 3 spots to soften it up to where I like it now (I eventually ended up with Vanquish Currie Anti-rock).

4) Turning radius
The Bomber needs tighter turn radius bad. I'm putting on the Vanquish Stage 1 kit (C-hubs, knuckles and rear lock-outs), VVD-hd and Vanquish clamping hexes all around.

With these changes, I feel that I would be fairly happy until items started breaking and I made changes based on necessity or desire.

My other list of mods include:
- Scale pieces: fire extinguisher, Hi-Lift, fuel cell Tube, shock lines and paint.
- Metal body panels while I learn to drive this thing. It has spent a lot of time rolling down things. I don't mind trashing cheap metal panels.
- Incision SS links and rods. Hopefully this and the knuckls and C-hubs add a little low weight to the front end.

From here we'll see where this goes. I think I've covered what I would feel are basic necessities to start with.

I will keep my stock suspension... at least until I have made other major changes that would affect weight etc. I have replaced oil levels. I have SSD wheels on the way and need to solidify what tires I'm going with.



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EDIT to add current build/parts list:

vvv Build as of February 2017 vvv

- Axial RR10 Bomber RTR
- Duratrax Onyx 3S 11.1V 4000mAh 25C battery (2 - 3 hours crawling time)

- Hitec HS-7950TH servo
- Axial aluminum clamping servo horn
- Castle Creations bec
- Incision stainless steel tie rod and drag link with Axial (AX31186) 4mm off-set rod ends. These ends can eliminate the steering binding and castor issues that can be lost with some aftermarket diff covers or C-hub/knuckles

- Tekin Roc412 2300kv - sensored brushless
- Vanquish motor plate and motor cam - Black anodized
- Mamba Max Pro - ESC
- Robinson Racing 10T pinion

- D'Lux modified AR60 axle housings
- Beef Tubes - Brass (cut length of 1/8" round inside rear locker between axle shafts to eliminate side to side play and lockout rubbing)
- Axial H/D bevel gear 38T - Front
- Axial H/D bevel gear under drive 43T/13T - Rear
- Vanquish Stage One kit - Orange
- Vanquish knuckle bushings
- Vanquish AR60 knuckle weights
- Vanquish VVD V1-HD
- Incision spool/locker
- RC4WD Poison Spyder diff covers

- Pro-Line Pro-Spec rear 100mm shocks - Blue spring (super soft) 30wt oil - Front. Red spring (hard) 40wt oil - Rear
- Incision stainless steel links - Wraith length upper - Rear. Axial (AX31186) 4mm bent rod ends and 4mm shim to improve pinion angle
- Blue Monkey Wraith length trailing arms
- Vanquish Currie Antirock sway bar with Traxxas short turnbuckle links

- SSD Rock Racer Rims - including spare
- Pro-LIne Flat Iron XL - including spare
- Crawler Innovations Double Deuce 5.5 Medium - Front
- Crawler Innovations Double Deuce 6.0 Medium with outer ring removed - Rear
- Vanquish 12mm hex with Axial (AX3102 drive pins 2.0x11
- DMG spare tire mount Flat Iron XL + SSD Rock Racer rim + DMG mount = 0.60lb (currently removed - no spare)

- Star Wars themed painted panels and interior - Tamiya PS1, 2, 5 & 12 with Pez heads filled and drilled with epoxy putty
- Miscellaneous Hobby Gear and other scale pieces - Hi-Lift, Fire Extinguisher, Nos along with fuel tube and front shock lines
- 3mm shims next to rod end balls to eliminate slop with links
- Some new bearings - Fast Eddie I think? ...maybe Traxxas

Anything not listed is stock from RTR.

 

[powder4breakfast]

First question.

I have SSD Rock Racer wheels on the way. I am looking into tires. Mostly for crawling on rock. Granite and limestone around me. Lots of slickrock in Southern Utah where I often travel for work.

I'm particularly interested in either the Proline Flat Iron XL's or Axial R35 Krawlers. Any opinions and experience on these two tires would be appreciated. I want to stick with Axial or Proline for my tires.

Once I settle on a tire, I may have questions on foams; but, I assume that I can direct those directly to CI first. Otherwise, what foam set-up is recommended for the Flat Iron XL for crawling (I'm leaning towards the Flat Irons unless someone talks me into the Krawler or other Axial or Proline tire)? I want them to have a similar feel to how soft the stock Baja's are when rolling and gripping around rocks.

 

[SCREAMER]

I think flat irons will be better. I'd go with CI double deuce 6.0 comp cut with soft outers for maximum rock traction. The dual stage will still hold the sidewall up for good side hilling.

 

[powder4breakfast]

Thanks for the input. Can you tell me what the difference is between comp cut and standard? I have looked on CI's website and searched a little. Maybe I am missing something. I pretty much assumed I did not want narrow; but, I don't know how the comp and standard compare.

 

[SCREAMER]

Comp cut has grooves in the outer surface that allow the foam to press into and I feel they also kind of bite into the foam to keep them from shifting from side to side. Standard is flat. Comp and standard are the same width.

 

[Fj62]

I have the Onyx 4000mAh 11.1V 3S. I get 1 hour 45 mins of mostly crawling. I went with the Hitec X1 mini for my charger. I know nothing about chargers; but, I really like the X1 mini.

I am coming from sabbatical from my airplane background and curious as to what others are using as their charging stations.

 

[powder4breakfast]

I think flat irons will be better. I'd go with CI double deuce 6.0 comp cut with soft outers for maximum rock traction. The dual stage will still hold the sidewall up for good side hilling.

Gathering from other posts here, I was thinking the 6.0" as well in "soft" front and rear.

CI responded to my email and recommended Double Duece 5.5" comp cut with "soft" front and "medium" rear.


- Can anyone provide feedback on running firmer foams in the rear tires?
- I would also appreciate input on 5.5 and 6.0 foams in any tires with similar dimensions to the Proline Flat Iron XL's.

 

[maslin]

Had to look back to February 2014, I have the "6.0 Double Deuce Pair (2) (Inner Width: Standard Outer Density: Medium_Outers)"

Still going strong, lots and lots of hours. Pitbull RB IIs on RC4WD Hitmans.

 

[SCREAMER]

If you get 6.0 you basically get 5.5 and 6.0. The 6.0 comes with an outer removable ring so you have options. Going firmer in the rear is supposed to be for weight transfer on acceleration and climbing. I've always ran the same density on all four corners. I've seen people say they went firmer on the rear and didn't like it then swapped to matching density with the front. I know CI are the experts so take this with a grain of salt. Most of our trucks are heavier in the front as well so going softer in the front doesn't sound right to me. If anything I think you'd want more "psi" in the front to hold the weight up better. JMO

 

[rngrchad]

Fwiw, I'm running comp cut 6.0 mediums(aka 1023's) front/rear without the tuning ring, and after about 20 packs through my bomber I can't imagine wanting them any softer for my all around bashing/trailing/crawling. Love love love them in my rb2's and ssd steelies. And I been thinking; when these foams wear out and start getting really soft, I'll just put the tuning ring back in and I'll be good to go for awhile longer.

 

[powder4breakfast]

I actually thought I was going to buy this car, keep it stock and only drive it once in a while. haha... jokes on me... talk about addicting.

These showed up today (Thanks RPP. Quick to confirm my order and ship) and I hope to pick up my tires today or Monday. That motivates me even more to figure out foams.

Eddie (Crawler Innovations) is great at responding quickly and from what I understand, his product is almost mandatory when building wheels. That being said, Eddie is quite "curt" as someone else on this forum described him. Although his foam guide says that "foams do not need to be confusing" with 7 simple steps to nail it. As a newcomer who has never even seen a CI foam before... it's not exactly that simple. Plus there are countless combinations of wheels and tires that when matched with driving style, build and terrain, they're going to compound the issue more. Please understand that I mean no disrespect to the man responsible for such a high demand product that is so widely used; but, I feel it's fair for me to try and understand the concept enough that I don't have to spend $80.00 on foams when half that would have sufficed doing it right the first time. Eddie promptly responded to my emails last night which shows he is dedicated to his business and communicating with customers. I don't think anyone knows a product better than the person who creates and sells it... which is why I am still confused. No one gave me the same advice he did and that has me wondering if I am going to have to order foams 2 or 3 times to get it right. I don't what to spend as much on foams as I did on rims.

Recap: I am going with SSD Rock Racer rims with Proline Flat Iron XL's which are 5.5" tall. I am going to go with Double Deuce Comp cut.

My main dilemma: 5.5" or 6.0"? Secondary is "medium" rear + "soft" front or same all around.

Eddie says that the 6.0" with outer ring is not the same as the 5.5". In his words "Two different inners, both use the same outer though". I'm not sure if that means different gray part, with same white... or same gray and white with different tuning ring. When I sought clarification I was asked if I wanted his opinion or someone else's... haha. I honestly don't mean to bother him or any of you. At my age (close to 40) I'm simply not used to being a beginner. RC car building is not intuitive. I don't think that it is above my ability... just above my current knowledge and understanding in some aspects due to lack of experience. If the 5.5" and 6.0" were truly the same foam with 6.0" adding the outer ring... I would shut my face and move on the next parts of my build.

Eddie's advice is 5.5" DD - "medium" rear - "soft" front. If I don't do that, my next current thought, combining Screamer and rngrchad's advice, is running 6.0" DD - "soft" front and rear without outer ring (tuning ring?).

So, thank you for all the help in this and other threads I have participated in. I absolutely love the new hobby I have found. If anyone else can chime in with advice or experience regarding 5.5" or 6.0" for 5.5" tall tires, that would be appreciated.

 

[maslin]

I have the 6.0 Double Deuces in Pitbulls, the spec is 5.75", normal cut, medium outers front and rear. I can't imagine wanting a softer foam on either end. I like being about to throw my tires on the work bench and not worry about putting them back on wrong as well. I have been running the same wheels, tires and foams over 2 years, several hundred hours, the outer foam is softer than it was when new, but works just great. I'm not going to replace them until the foam falls out :lmao:

The flatiron spec is 5.5" so maybe the 5.5 foam would be a better fit. I found the 6.0 to mount up fine on a 5.75" tire. If I recall correctly, the outer foam was 2 separate pieces.

 

[SCREAMER]

Here's my abbreviated experience with 5.5 and 6.0 respectively. I bought 5.5s once thinking they should be a good match for the 5.4 inch tall Krawlers I was running at the time. The "5.5" foams dint even fill up the tire. There was at least 1/8 inch OD dead space before the tire carcass touched the way too soft outers that I also unwisely chose. Lesson learned. 6.0 for any tire 5.3 inches or taller and mediums all around unless your truck weighs less than 5lbs.

I forgot to mention that Flat Iron XLs and RBIIs are exactly the same height at 5.75 tall. This is real world measurement with both tires in front of you, not what's written on the sidewall. I've learned very quickly that the published numbers are often misleading. I think your best bet is to copy Bilinvic's setup to the tee. He is running your exact combo.

Found a comparison pic. The tread is also strangely familiar. :ror:

 

[DowntownScience]

Crawling or racing?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[SCREAMER]

Did you read the first post?

 

[powder4breakfast]

Wow Screamer, Thank you for your incredibly helpful and much appreciated input.

Now I just need to remember exactly which one of Billinvic's many versions of wheel builds I'm following haha. I know he had DD 6.0" soft in with his KR2's at one point. I think that is what he said was in his Flat Irons as well.

Hopefully I get to order the foams tonight. Also hoping my Vanquish and Incision parts will be ready on Monday. If all goes as planned, I will have some fun upgrades on board by this time next week.

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Edit to add this awesome little bit of information that Ostewart PM'd me. Since this was a hot topic for me, I'd like to share it here as well.


"I'm running CI double deuce foams, 6.0 size, comp cut inner,

Medium outer on the front, firm outer on the rear.

I took the tuning ring off too.

Very happy with them for a bashing rig, soft outer would be better if you do a lot of crawling,

I would probably suggest comp cut 6.0 medium outer all round with these if you want a rock bouncer. Soft outer all round if you want maximum grip."

 

[DowntownScience]

Did you read the first post?

oops sorry, started on page two.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Fj62]

PB4B,
Seeing as how we are both in the same boat. Let me know what you end up going with and I'd most likely be interested splitting the 3rd set like the wheels.

 

[Fj62]

While on the subject of tire, bead lock, and foam combo's.
The stock rim/tire combo vent the tires while the SSD bead locks will require mods to vent.
I understand the concept of venting the tires but it just seems wrong to pay 70.00+ dollars on a full set of tires and then have to poke holes in them for them to work properly.

 

[maslin]

Vent the tires. Hard to get water out of a hole in the wheel.